Holographic means that the music isn't rooted to the speakers, but instead seems to be originating from specific areas where the musicians and singers are arranged throughout the soundstage of your listening room -- especially between and outside your speakers -- in the best
cases, there is air between them and you can imagine some closer to
you and some further away -- the proverbial deep and wide soundstage.
But, holographic means the musicians and singers appear throughout the soundstage almost like holograms. |
To me 'holographic' means 3-dimensional. A 'normal'stereo image sets musicians between the speakers frome left to right. Imho a 'holographic' sound means there is also depth and height, like the real world, but there just not fysically in your room. |
To me "holographic" in this respect is even more than 3-dimensional: it lets you hear the different layers of musicians. So you can hear exactly who's playing BEHIND another instrument and even further behind - AND above, too! For example I have a Guitar Duo-recording in which one guitarist is sitting on a high chair. And you can hear that his sound is coming from a higher position than the other guitarist who's on a normal chair. But that's what I basically expect of gear with the name "HighEnd". Everything else ist just Stereo imho. |
All the above plus, it means to me also the holographic belt of my turntable--very cool! |
Something from Star Trek and Star Wars. |
That the person using it doesn't do audio in the same vein as me, i.e. nothing. |
Yes, kinda like a mini-Princess Leia is floating between your speakers saying "help me Fatparrot..."
Although with me, I've got Maria Grazia Cucinotta or Sophia Loren floating in front of me saying, "get off your lazy culo and put that green slanted head to use." |
It means that the 2-channel set-up is so good that there
is no need to even think about surround sound. |
It means that Bob Carver is a lot more influential within the audio industry than many give him credit for. After all, wasn't it he who coined the phrase / marketed "Sonic Holography" over 20 years ago? Sean
> |
Sean, you're knowledge scares me :). May the Force be with me...... |
Maybe we should all plug our ears so Bob Carver will stop making us
hear what we hear. Damn that Bob!!! Okay, that was sarcasm. Doesn't matter who coined the term, "rain" -- when it falls on you, you get just as wet. Same with imaging. Further, I don't think Bob invented Holograms -- it was obviously a borrow. Just like most phrases used to describe what one hears. Few people know that *I* actually invented the phrase, "damn, this sounds GOOD!" So, anytime someone hears something that sounds good, it proves what enormous influence *I* have. Damn, if I had just patented that phrase.... |
Right Sean, I remember those goofy Carver ads from the early 80's. Cool Cubes and preamps with Sonic Holography, heheh. I tried kicking Princess Leia once, but my foot went right through her. |
I recall a radio station in MI claiming to broadcast in Carver's Sonic Holography with much hype (1980 or 81 I think). They prefered late night broadcasts of Pink Floyd and Genesis, if I remember correctly. Never could figure out how they expected us to believe the holography was supposed to survive the broadcast. |
Did any of you folks ever listen to / hear / experience a properly set up Carver "Sonic Holography" based system? Sean
> |
I still own a Carver C-11 preamp (with Sonic Holography, of course), although admittedly it's relegated to the basement system. I found that the Sonic Holography effect could, indeed, dramatically enhance the width and depth of the soundstage, but as you might expect, only in the prime listening position. Anything outside of this listening position actually sounded a good bit worse.
Tom. |
Bob Carver's Sunfire Theater Grand 3's holographic feature has gotten a lot better than yesteryear and is one of the main drawing cards to his current Sunfire receiver/processor. The sweet spot just got bigger and the 3D projection wider thanks to Bob's vision. It sure keeps me spaced out,,, LOL Regards, Robin |
holographic.....i would use this term to hear what i would truly classify only 2-3 times in my audio life.
it is waaayyyy more that just a good recording.
it is when the imaging illusion is so strong and believeable ( very high resolution) that the image takes on three dimensions:
1. height
2. width
3. body (density of the above, strong outline in 1,2, and depth)
4. Tonal colors
i would liken to looking into a room from the outside vs being inside the room itself ( most systems offer a view "into" the recording
another way to describe it would be- it sounds like you are literally at the recording venue or the recording venue is in your room.
most systems (including yours truly ) have 1 & 2 above and only hint at tonal colors ( ie that offer a view into the recording)
getting body with tonal colors is very difficult and very difficult with digital based sources and solid state equipment
this is the area where "good" tube gear and analog smoke "excellent " solid state and digital gear.
hope that helps!!!
mike |
It means "an inch to the left and front...no...an inch to the right and back...crap...I had them right the first time, why the s@#t did I f@#k with the speakers again."
(wait a minute...wasn't that the hidden message you only heard if you spun the Beatles' "White Album" backwards?) |
My own personnal definition is that holographic refers to the depth, front and back, hearing percussions 15 feet INTO your wall and behind the speakers. By comparison, imaging means the overall picture, and this may include the holographic effect to a certain degree. My best analogy would be looking at an hologram under the right light... |
My definition would simply be different words than those used above. I think "holographic" is more of a situation where the illusion becomes believable and almost touchable. Whether it is a soundstage (sonic holograph - nice term) or visual field (hologram), the specific event takes on an atmosphere of real volume and space.
I think 3-dimensional sound has more in common with multi-channel home theater set-ups, which can provide the most easily heard holographic situations. Surround sound would then be the engineered product of sounds delivered in specified areas. These sounds are what I enjoy as the novelty of special effects. |
I forgot which movie but there was a scene where John Coltrane pops out of some floor projector device playing his sax. Now, that's holographic. The next wave in home entertainment? |
Hi Mhu,
"Vanilla Sky" is the movie...may the Train be with you. |
oops, oops, oops..."Trane"...sorry. |
Holographic to me means mentally visual illusion that produce a 3-D scenery in front of you. Such an example is the the song" Swept Away" from the live recording of Yanni at the Acropolis. I almost start to cry from happiness when I heard the congo solo 2 ft above my left speaker. Alfredo |
Interesting takes on "holographic.
I would suggest a combination of both imaging and soundstaging for a true re-creation of holographic.
There would need to be width, depth and height of the soundstage itself, independent of the "image" factor.
There would need to be actuall depth layering, which is quite different than depth. Depth layering is more of a sense of instruments ranked behind each other - CLEARLY! - and not whole rows of instruments bunched up with each other so that you cannot determine if the flutist is behind or beside the trumpet.
Then, there is the imaging factor. The images must be very 3-dimensional: not just a bas-relief picture, but a sense of an invisible human being with a front and a back to their body. Or, in an orchestra, a sense of actually "seeing" the violins, bass drum, cellists, etc. In order for this to be complete, the instruments need to sound as though they have weight [e.g., the violinst sounds like he/she weighs 100 pounds, not 30 ounces] and are simply invisible, or, as has been written in TAS, "palpable." Touchable. And you can see the outlines of the way the instruments face: are they facing you, the listener, or are they facing each other, as perhaps in a string quartet. For this to be complete, one requires imaging specificity, which nobody talks about. Specificity means that the actual images' orientation is obvious, and I do mean, OBVIOUS! No guessing which way they're turned. Specificity combined with dimensionality and palpability create a solid "presence" in your room.
For the presence to be believable on a higher scale, it must then be placed into the recorded acoustic, replete with the air that obviously exists within the room. And the air must be light enough to "spread" when the instruments begin to bow, blow, strike, squeak or squeal. When the air moves around the instrument and the notes it creates in the air surrounding it, and these other factors are present you have a very high impression of holography.
The best imager I ever had was the WATTS -- back from 86-1992, when Dave was in the San Francisco Bay Area. The next best -- for me -- were the Avalons (Eclipse or Ascents; I only owned the Eclipse). In fact, after the WATT, nothing was quite as "right there! There! R-I-G-H-T THERE!" That was a combination of the WATTS (mine), the ARC SP-11(mine) and the Rowland Model 5 (mine) and 7s.
I also thought that the MIT speaker cable and interconnects of the time assisted: they had "bloom": the ability to allow the components' harmonics to spread into the air around the instrument -- in your listening room.
That's what Jonathan Valin is talking about when he says bloom: the air spreading outward.
I imagine many components these days image, but how many complete the illusion withe the blooming of the upper harmonics? If you want complete holography, this is a large starting part of the list. There are other factors, too. |
convincing, utterly convincing solid imaging and playing, in a real space, with each sound source having body.
tends to require main single stereo mike, or crossed pair array, or a phased array, of directional mikes, fig 8's and cardioids. Decca/Argo/Loiseau Lyre, the only consistent exception - use Omni array Xmas tree plus spots.
your speakers MUST be able to disappear, ie no sense of any sound coming from them at all, also highly room and set-up dependent.
Dipole/panel spkrs do, but very few enclosure types, can pull this off, even heavy composite pyramidal types IMO and E. Most spheres can and do, eg the earlier Gallos. mine are even earlier!
exemplary sources? virtually any recordings on
Hyperion
Accent
Auvidis Astree
RR
Opus 111
Deccas Classic reissues.
Argo - eg. the Rossini String Sonatas - Marriner.
Dorian
There ARE other companies, yes.
Live direct OB's of acoustic music are often constrained to use a single stereo mike, and can be the best sound of all, way better than any R2R (or DAT?) of the same event, same mikes.
Tim B |
