After_hrs and Simao,
"Again, I imagine Wavetouch are quality products and that their designer is a passionate and devoted craftsman and technician, but the way these things are being trumpeted, you'd think they're the second coming of hi-end audio."
"That's funny, their definitely not the second coming...Yep, I agree it may be a bit over the top at times, but totally truthful! It's our way of giving back I suppose. Not a new story...small company, no advertising budget, growing track record, a kind, innovative, passionate owner, and an enthusiastic, growing gallery of BELIEVERS.... sorry S, there I go again"
"I mean, really? They best Avantegarde or Kharma Ceramique? They blow Wilsons out of the water?"
"Totally agree..."
The fact of the matter for me is that, to all that, I say +1 |
After_hrs and Simao,
Although, with regard to my post just above and in the interest of fairness, I suppose I should point out that the quote about the Wilsons I believe you're referring to, Simao, was not that they "blow the Wilsons out of the water", but if you reread that I think you'll see that, bass differences aside, the GT's were effectively equally as good as the Wilsons (for that owner), but at a tenth of the cost...if my memory serves. |
ordered the wavetouch se and I should have them in about 10 more days, if they don't meet my standards I have a 40 day in home trial, so nothing to lose. |
Sounds exciting... Keep us posted. G. |
Jh,
Enjoyed your pm's... As we discussed, this level of audio enthusiasm is as much about the the discovery behind the philosophy/science of new designs as it is about the 'art form' of the audio experience itself. As I'm working on stuff this morning and also getting ready to host a small Superbowl get together later, happily looking out of a large window at a beautiful green covered hill in sunny California feeling totally blessed having taken delivery of our newest family member yesterday (2015 liquid platinum GS350 F-sport Lexus, lucky us) listening to our Gen2 GT's (great atmospheric music; N Nicco-The Castle, Air- Alone in Kyoto, BT- The Shame bent mix, David Lanz- Dream of the forgotten child, Elton John- Love Song off of Tumbleweed Connection) expecting our first child in a few months... I had to share this feeling because the Wavetouch speaks are an integral part of this feeling of appreciation right now. Someone recently was asked what their favorite thing about Winter was; the reply..."My favorite thing about Winter is being able to watch it on TV from California".
Cheers |
Yeah I'm real excited about these speakers, with the VA's I guess I new what kind of sound I was going to get probably the same as the Mozart's just more of it. |
Yep... More than likely You will be in a completely different audio territory from VA. 40 days should allow you to assess if their sonic signature fits your preferences or not. G. |
"01-26-15: After_hrs
Zd542,
I happily stand up for good people who are deserving... The owner of Wavetouch is such a person.
"The owner of the company is confident that his speakers will outperform my VA Mozart's and I wont return them."
lol.
This is a pointless and valueless comment.
Reading anything you've written here is a waste of time..."
Well, you should have. Because if you did, then you would know the pointless and valueless comment, wasn't mine.
"Do you have anything technical to add or a recommendation that might be applicable here?"
Now you've caught yourself in somewhat of a paradox. If reading anything that I've written here is a waste of time, you can't know that until you've read my post. Going by your logic, you shouldn't even be reading this. But you are, and in doing so you're in defiance of your own "logic"?
Luckily for us, your logic and reality are not the same thing. If you can somehow figure out a loophole, see if you can read the thread from the beginning. I was the first person to respond to the OP's question, and had several posts after, in the discussion that followed. Is there anything in any of them that you take issue with? The OP hasn't. |
Zd542,
Clearly, I was referring to your "lol" response to the manufacturer's confidence comment...
Also, being the first to answer a thread means what exactly? Answer...Nothing.
You said, "Now you've caught yourself in somewhat of a paradox. If reading anything that I've written here is a waste of time, you can't know that until you've read my post. Going by your logic, you shouldn't even be reading this. But you are, and in doing so you're in defiance of your own "logic"?
And... "Luckily for us, your logic and reality are not the same thing. If you can somehow figure out a loophole, see if you can read the thread from the beginning."
Reading this nonsense illustrates my point perfectly...Wasting some time is an necessary evil of forums... Thanks for providing the object lesson.
To all others, maybe it's time to start posting some personal experience $10k range speakers that are worth commenting on for those that see the title...
Here are a few I've heard and loved, in no particular order;
The Vaughn Cabernet
Proac Response D40R w/ribbon tweeter (discontinued) great used value, replacement even better.
ATC SCM40A brand new, incredible, powered. Drive directly.
DeVore Silverback's, older or newer version. Occasionally found used.
I've also seen Salon 2 Revel's (retail over $20k) go for well under $10k in the L.A. area... More set up is needed than for your average speaker but big reward when optimized.
Personally I'm looking to step up soon to either Ascendo System F's
or the rarely discussed, Advanced Transduction Directorate loudspeaker.
Cheers |
Aftr_hrs,
"Reading this nonsense illustrates my point perfectly...Wasting some time is an necessary evil of forums... Thanks for providing the object lesson."
Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point. Anyway, looking at you last post, "To all others, maybe it's time to start posting some personal experience $10k range speakers that are worth commenting on for those that see the title...", I don't know if you were aware of this, but if you scroll up you'll see that the OP already bought speakers. It probably doesn't make sense to keep giving recommendations. |
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything.
He ordered the Wavetouch GT monitors in part because I gave him the confidence to do so in some PM's.
I will continue to give my thoughts on the $10k speaker topic as I see fit. Many threads have a life beyond the needs of the OP... For many this price point is very relevant.
You said;
"Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point."
Astounding, Pathetic.
|
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything.
He ordered the Wavetouch GT monitors in part because I gave him the confidence to do so in some PM's.
I will continue to give my thoughts on the $10k speaker topic as I see fit. Many threads have a life beyond the needs of the OP... For many this price point is very relevant.
You said;
"Thank you. I was hoping you would figure that out at some point."
Astounding, Pathetic.
|
Didn't know about Wavetouch until today while looking into Vapor speakers which has turned up some very interesting posts. Glad I found this thread and will be checking out Wavetouch. |
Didn't know about Wavetouch until today while looking into Vapor speakers which has turned up some very interesting posts. Glad I found this thread and will be checking out Wavetouch. |
Who knows if the wavetouch will be my last speaker? I haven't received it yet, I'm taking advantage of the 40 day in home trial and giving it a shot. so I'm still open to any and all suggestions. any opinions on floorstanders vs bookshelfs? |
"02-02-15: After_hrs
Zd542,
Your input once again is irrelevant to anything."
So why do you keep posting. You're ridiculous.
Lets take one last look at the situation that you created here. Here's what happened: I was reading one of the OP's posts. He worded a sentence in such a way that I thought it was funny. I couldn't help but chuckle. I posted an lol. And that's it. Your entire argument is based on 3 letters, lol. You mean to tell me that I'm not allowed to make a humorous comment? And not only that, just to make sure that I didn't accidentally offend someone, I posted this to clarify my statement.
"Jughead,
Just in case you are wondering, my lol comment was just that. The way you worded your post was funny, I couldn't help but laugh. It had nothing at all to do with the company, but don't tell that to After_hrs or he'll be up all night typing. lol."
I don't owe you an explanation for anything I do. If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass. |
ok? so lets get back to talking about speakers! if I do end up liking the wavetouch does anyone have any suggestions on a nice pair of stands? |
"02-04-15: Jughead
... does anyone have any suggestions on a nice pair of stands?"
My suggestion is that you start a new thread and include the stand height you need. |
Jughead , I thought looks were important to you? There is no way I could put those in my living room. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the sound they produce.
Skylan stands makes custom stands, they are fillable with sand or cat litter. Great guy! Great company !!
They run about $350 last I checked.
Timbernation is another speaker stand company.
For now , you may just try to find cheap 24inch stools that are sturdy. This should get you through the audition phase. |
FOr a different approach with stands, ie isolating and placement lower to floor with tilt up if needed, take a look at the larger Isoacoustics stands perhaps.
I'm not saying these would necessarily be better or best, but a different approach that might have merit in some situations where decoupling from a livelier room is of benefit combined with lower level placement to enable the floor to reinforce the bass if needed.
Also low placement with uptilt increases distance to rear wall and delays those reflections which can be beneficial for soundstage and imaging in a smaller room.
I use these with my smaller Triangle monitors in my wife's very lively 12X12 with cathedral ceiling sunroom (see my system picture) and this was the only thing I found that ever got any speakers sounding right in there. |
Yeah I know, the wavetouch isn't a pretty speaker but it is unusual looking looks are important but not as important as sound. this is just an audition and the speaker may not be my bag anyway. |
I think they look OK. Is that the same ribbon tweeter that Martin Logan is using on their non esl speakers? |
Not sure if its the same tweeter? but I have no experience with ribbon tweeters. and I don't think they look that bad either, unusual for sure. but they look very solid and interesting. and with my amp and the 94db sensitivity I would think my amp would be in class a most of the time. |
Looks very much like the same tweeter used in the Motion 20 and 40XT, but not the 60. The 60 tweeter looks like a larger version, possibly. The Wavetouch tweeter is the Dayton AMT2-4. You can look them up at Parts Express and also see the graphs at Dayton's website. |
I would highly suggest anyone looking to buy Vapor speakers spends 5 minutes Googling around to see all the bad buying experiences from actual customers (too bad the company deletes all they can). $10k can get you much better built speakers with actual customer support. I'm always willing to talk about my Vapor buying experience via PM. |
"The owner of the company is confident that his speakers will outperform my VA Mozart's and I wont return them."
lol.
lol, means laugh out loud, Anyone can clearly see your mindless comment was meant as a dig against a manufacturers specific comment about a specific speaker. There is nothing the least bit funny about it.
You said;
"I don't owe you an explanation for anything I do. If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass."
What kind of a way is that to handle the stress you've brought upon yourself? By lashing out ...with a typical under-class remark.
Everyone knows that this kind of inanity is part of many forums. For me, you've become the poster child of the moment.
You're battin' a 1000 |
Zd,
"The owner of the company is confident that his speakers will outperform my VA Mozart's and I wont return them."
lol.
lol, means laugh out loud, Anyone can clearly see your mindless comment was meant as a dig against a manufacturers specific comment about a specific speaker. There is nothing the least bit funny about it.
You said;
"I don't owe you an explanation for anything I do. If you don't like it, you can kiss my ass."
What kind of a way is that to handle the stress you've brought upon yourself? By lashing out ...with a typical under-class remark.
Everyone knows that this kind of inanity is part of many forums. For me, you've become the poster child of the moment.
You're battin' a 1000 |
Vortrex,
Your tireless hate for Vapor is impressive.
Over time your efforts will likely cause more people to order his beautiful products regardless of past ventures (many of us have them). They'll find out for themselves that Ryan is a quality guy manufacturing an extremely high quality product. |
After_hrs,
The OP asked if we could move on from this crap and talk about speakers. I thought I did a good job in explaining my lol comment. If you don't believe me, that's your choice and its perfectly fine. If you want, I'll even admit to hating Vapor speakers and declare myself on a mission to discredit the company, in any way I can. Anything. Just stop with the crybaby posting. |
Wavetouch sent pictures of the progress with the se I ordered in a high gloss black, this is the first time they have done this color, and they are running them for 150 hrs to break them in. so I should have them sometime next week. it has been a long time since I have been truly excited to get some different speakers, I just hope I'm not building them up for a let down. |
In gloss black I'm sure they will sound awesome!! ;-)
Is there a hometheater involved with the speakers? |
Yeah along with gaming threw the ps4, but 80% of the time is music. and with gaming I usually wear a headset because I do a lot of online gaming. cod of course. but I think they'll be fine with ht, but then again I could care less about the sound from ht. |
Zd542,
"The OP asked if we could move on from this crap and talk about speakers."
This isn't crap, this is entertainment.
"If you want, I'll even admit to hating Vapor speakers and declare myself on a mission to discredit the company"
This idiocy proves my point that you are the poster child of INANITY.
It would make sense then that your 'lol' comment was just a knee jerked inanity which has been your MO and you didn't actually mean any harm.
We can move on now. |
so how about them cubs? this is the year, world series bound. |
94db Sensitive? If the Wavetouch is 94db sensitive, I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot. Spoiler alert, I'm not a Chinese Jet Pilot.
Why do you guys buy into flat out BS like a small 2-way monitor using a 90-91db sensitive woofer can somehow be 94db sensitive? Baffle step eats up 3db at least, so at best those are 88db sensitive speakers. And 4ohm to boot, so they're only 85db efficient.
There are only 3 possibilities why a manufacturer would list those as 94db sensitive.
- They don't have a clue about design, and don't realize they're wrong
- They think you're too dumb to know it's BS, and choose to knowingly lie
- They have invented an orb of alternate physics which surrounds the speakers, allowing them operate outside the laws which rule all other speakers on the planet
Customers refusing to educate themselves about the product they're purchasing is all that allows manufacturers to get away with these types of decpetion. |
Jh,
"I just hope I'm not building them up for a let down."
Maybe you should take a break from thinking about them for a few days.
They are what they are... you'll know soon enough.
Whatever happens, the main thing is that your up for the adventure of discovering something new and exciting... most people here can only dream about doing it.
You actually are... so feel good! |
Jughead, I bet they will look good in black and after doing more research on the internet I really think without a doubt you made the better choice. |
I take offence to that Jughead. We all know that you were taking a stab at Wilson because I have a pair of Wilson Cubs. And don't try and get out of it either. It could not have been a knee jerk reaction. I think you should write a formal letter of apology to Mr. Wilson, and post it here so we can all bear witness. It will be a reminder that this type of thing should never happen again. |
94db Sensitive? If the Wavetouch is 94db sensitive, I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot. Spoiler alert, I'm not a Chinese Jet Pilot.
Why do you guys buy into flat out BS like a small 2-way monitor using a 90-91db sensitive woofer can somehow be 94db sensitive? Baffle step eats up 3db at least, so at best those are 88db sensitive speakers. And 4ohm to boot, so they're only 85db efficient.
There are only 3 possibilities why a manufacturer would list those as 94db sensitive.
- They don't have a clue about design, and don't realize they're wrong
- They think you're too dumb to know it's BS, and choose to knowingly lie
- They have invented an orb of alternate physics which surrounds the speakers, allowing them operate outside the laws which rule all other speakers on the planet
Customers refusing to educate themselves about the product they're purchasing is all that allows manufacturers to get away with these types of decpetion. |
zd542, actually I was talking about the Chicago Cubs trying to change the subject. no disrespect was intended. Yeah bam wavetouch sent pictures of the speaker in high gloss black which they had to dye the wood to get them that way, and they look much better than the light wood color. with my set up the light color would've stuck out like a sore thumb! |
Onemanjackelpack,
Wow, that's a very dramatic first ever post on AG.
"They have invented an orb of alternate physics which surrounds the speakers"
This is a very astute observation. That's not far off.
If you didn't know, horn loading, especially with an extended center phase wave 'guide' increases efficiency.
Nice of you to drop in.
I hope you're a better pilot than you are a spoiler. |
The audio world in general is bs isn't it? with the offer of snake oil. put these 2k isolators under your speakers and bass will tighten, voices will be crisp. a battery pack on a speaker cable sound familiar? it must work people spend 10k on this wonderful new tech. I think these shitty little monitors I bought are going to be fine, and if not I return them for a full no questions asked refund. |
Jughead((a battery pack on a speaker cable sound familiar?))
Just cause you don't understand it makes it BS?
Try an experiment running 2 very short plus and minus solid core speaker wires with no covering,dielectric "without touching negative and positive".
Listen and after you hear this you should be impressed by comparison to your rubber coated magnified multi strand you got screwed for.
This is what Air tubes and 72 volts are attempting to do. Take a listen and if you don't hear how amazing this is
O well.
As for the many variety of spikes coupling and uncoupling
this deals with the energy the speaker puts back into the room and these spikes coupling and or uncoupling benefits from not allowing out of phase energy back in with the music. With a little help you might not have to settle for
non full range mini speakers.
Best JohnnyR
|
"02-07-15: Jughead
zd542, actually I was talking about the Chicago Cubs trying to change the subject. no disrespect was intended."
I know. You guys have no sense of humour. Well maybe After_hrs, but that's it. |
02-07-15: Onemanwolfpack writes: 94db Sensitive? If the Wavetouch is 94db sensitive, I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot. I certainly don't believe their published figures. Regards, |
Jh,
Remember, there is no voodoo with these or any other speakers. The WT GT's are what they are... only good, basic, proven acoustical science and much empirical fine tuning. You don't have to defend anything.
Horns, waveguides, phase plugs and the like are not to be confused with voodoo. Wavetouch is simply using a fresh implementation of these proven and century old tools.
Also, as countless members here know, there are many unconventional 'tweek" products for increasing fidelity that are very legitimate. Wading out in those waters is not necessary. |
Audioconnection, I own AQ jags, k12 and mont blanc cables I've pulled battery packs off and heard no difference. I've had isolation for speaker spikes made no difference, and I'm sure this junk wavetouch speaker will make no difference either. at what point does it become status? look at me and what I got. wonder what kind of deals on speakers radio shack will be having? |
"02-08-15: Jughead
Audioconnection, I own AQ jags, k12 and mont blanc cables I've pulled battery packs off and heard no difference."
Those are all great cables. I still have the Jaguars. You can't just pull the cable off the DBS and listen to it. It will still sound the same. If you want to compare, disconnect the DBS on 1 set of cables and let is sit for a while. Maybe 2-3 weeks. Then compare that pair of cables to a different set of Jaguars that you didn't unhook the DBS system on. DBS isn't something you can just turn on and off and listen for a difference.
"02-08-15: Metralla
02-07-15: Onemanwolfpack writes:
94db Sensitive? If the Wavetouch is 94db sensitive, I'm a Chinese Jet Pilot.
I certainly don't believe their published figures."
I'm just curious as to why you guys wouldn't believe those specs? Its usually amp specs that aren't believable. |
The AQ cables I got a great deal on threw a local stereo store closing shop, the mont blanc I paid 200 for them and would have never considered paying the original 2k price tag. and I have unplugged battery pack and never heard the diff. and how does anyone know if WT is legit or not without hearing them? they offer a 40 day in home. comes down to track record, did apple have a track record? or what about Microsoft and this windows idea? |
02-08-15: Zd542 writes I'm just curious as to why you guys wouldn't believe those specs? In general it is very difficult to combine high efficiency with a small enclosure size and good low frequency response. Those three compete with each other, This is sometimes called Hofmann's Iron Law (Hofmann was the "H" in KLH) The design is ported, to give lower bass extension, which is something but the crossover is quite complex which reduces sensitivity. Until I see an independent test, I am not buying the 94dB /watt/metre sensitivity they claim. Regards, |
