"01-11-15: Jughead
I'm thinking the same thing, buy some less expensive speakers and use the rest of the money for other parts of my system."
I don't know if you'll get the results you want doing it that way. If you go after a pair of 5k speakers, 3k preamp, 2k amp,,,, or whatever, that's exactly what you are going to get. You end up with a collection of nice components. I would recommend that you focus on the main issue, and never loose site of it. And that is to put together an audio system that keeps you happy. But to do that, you really need to take a different approach. Start off by finding a sound you like. Once you have that, then you can set out to build a system that reproduces it. I understand it can be more work to do it that way, but keep this in mind; if you don't properly plan out your system beforehand, and shoot for a goal that you know is achievable because you heard it, you can't expect to get good sound.
Setting price points for individual components can really hold you back. For example, if you have 5k to spend, its entirely possible that you may pick a $1000 pair of speakers with a $4000 integrated amp. You just never know. I have something like this in my own systems. In the main system, I have a $2000 pair of speakers, and in my 2nd system, the speakers cost $10000. I think the cheap speakers are far better. And that's just the way it goes in audio. There's so many variables. |
yep that's why I think I'm going to go with vapor audio's breeze, its not expensive at all and I get the feeling along with the thunder of my sub it's the sound I'm looking for. usually don't go with bookshelf speakers but whenever I look at other speakers I go back to the breeze, just something about the look and design, the only way I heard them was on a youtube video, and they sounded good over my cheap lap top. |
"usually don't go with bookshelf speakers but whenever I look at other speakers I go back to the breeze, just something about the look and design, the only way I heard them was on a youtube video, and they sounded good over my cheap lap top."
Its definitely a fool proof plan. No doubt you'll be successful. |
As much as I like Vapor, I'd not judge any speaker by a YouTube video. And I think that putting so little of a 10k budget into speakers is a mistake. I'd put in the vicinity of $7-8,000 into speakers, or the whole $10k, with an eye towards upgrading other components gradually over time.
And in the Vapor line, I'd at least go up to the Aurora. Breeze is nice, but Aurora is where you start getting much more of the magic. Breeze sounds like a monitor. Aurora does not. |
"Some of my most rewarding moments listening to music at home, were decades ago, played through a pair of Magnepan MG1's powered by a Yamaha receiver. The enormous amount of joy I was able to derive from that rather humble system is unforgettable."
I bet you couldn't sell them fast enough. lol. Sell your best components and buy ones you hate. Its the audiophile way. I remember selling my Unity Audio Sig 1's (best speaker I ever had up to that point.) and squeezing a pair of B&W 800's into my small NYC apartment. It was a bloodbath. Those things got me sitting or standing. From my listening chair, the tweeters hit my ears like ice pics. The pointy edges got me as I was walking to the bathroom in the dark. Broke a toe. Had to set them up backwards so they pointed in. Coolest looking speaker I ever had. |
Yeah I know you don't judge a speakers sound by a you tube video, but I would not judge a speakers sound at a dealer or a friends house. ill judge the sound in my room with my equipment. I think the breeze or stiff breeze would be an upgrade over the VA Mozart's, and dealing with custom speakers idk if you can return them if you don't like their sound. so maybe in this case it might be wise to go small then go bigger if I feel the need. |
Jughead, as far as I know , vapor does not offer trial period or money back guarantee. You don't like em . You sell em. Unless you were to upgrade, then they may take em back. |
I know you've been down on planar, but Maggie 20 or even 3.7 will keep you satisfied. |
There's a nice pair of Acoustic Zen Crescendos for sale here for $7500. I have no idea if these speakers meet your personal tastes, but that's a lot of quality full-range speaker for the $$$. And you'd still have $2500 left for a vacation. Sorry, but as good as the Breeze may be they sure don't sound like "end of game" speakers, but the Crescendos...
Best of luck. |
Jughead, I can tell you from experience that the Breeze are awesome. Mine have a ton of upgrades and flat out kick butt. I have a similar sized room and the Vapors really fill it with beautiful sound.
Having said that, I too have heard the Auroras and they are big, bad and have a huge presence (in a good way). Sounded wonderful with anything and can really rock.
If it was me, I might do one of two things. The first option would be to have a killer pair of Cirrus built with the larger Raal tweeter. These could truly be end game speakers and you would be very, very happy. BUT, if you ever wanted more down the road, you would have the option of upgrading them to Joules by adding the transmission line cabinets and having Ryan change crossovers etc. Nice option to have in your back pocket!
Or, you could have Ryan build a killer pair of Breeze based Joules in your budget and have it all right now.
Lot's of options but the best way to proceed is to call Ryan, go over your budget, tastes and room and he will give you great choices. He is a detail freak and you will have a bespoke pair of uniquely custom speakers with end game sound. |
"Or, you could have Ryan build a killer pair of Breeze based Joules in your budget and have it all right now.
Lot's of options but the best way to proceed is to call Ryan, go over your budget, tastes and room and he will give you great choices. He is a detail freak and you will have a bespoke pair of uniquely custom speakers with end game sound."
Is it really a good idea to change the parts used to make a speaker on a in a build to order basis? A good friend of mine is a speaker manufacturer and he'll ask me, every so often, to do some listening tests when designing a new speaker. There's a need to get feedback from all types of people with different preferences, not just his own. If, for example, I handed him a different tweeter and asked him to try it, he wouldn't just swap them out. There would be a process involved that would almost certainly alter the crossover and cabinet, so that the new tweeter would integrate properly with the rest of the speaker. From what I understand, that's pretty much how most designers would do it. How can Vapor get away with not doing that type of research? |
Ask anybody with a pair of Joules how they sound. He does in fact use a different crossover and tweeter in that application when he incorporates the transmission line cabinet. Other differences as well but I would leave the details up to Ryan to explain. He can also modify existing Cirrus or Breeze and keep the tweeter the same. He recently did this to a pair of Cirrus for a customer with great success.
That's why I said "Breeze based Joules". I have discussed upgrading my Breeze like this with Ryan and really hope to do so in the future. |
MAGICO used S3 jump on it now!! |
Zd542, yeah check out Vapor's website, he just throws em together. Wink.
I know Vapor spent more than three or four years designing the Cirrus.
I would think Ryan voices all the speakers, changes the crossovers, and makes sure that any product has outstanding sound quality before it leaves the shop. |
Jughead, why not start bidding on the Cirrus here? You may get a great deal. |
The Crescendos that are listed for sale on this site would be a steal and it's a fantastic loudspeaker... |
You also need to check out NOLA KO's which I believe list right at your $10k price. As much as I admire Vapor's philosophy and approach, unless your priority is the deepest bass the NOLA's beat any Vapor model IMO. Of course, like two others here, if I were you I'd grab the used AZ Crescendos offered for $7500 without a second thought. |
You should also seriously consider the NOLA KO's which I think list for $10k; except for the deepest bass they clearer beat any of the Vapor models IMHO. Of course, like a couple of other posters here I would grab those used AZ Crescendos without a second thought. |
Sorry for the dupe post; when the first one hadn't appeared after ~16 hrs I thought it had been lost. |
I'm not so sure about vapor audio? I month to get speakers? |
If your in a hurry for speakers maybe Vapor Speakers are not the best option for you. Every speaker is made to order, production times can get delayed etc.. The Cirrus and other speakers can take 6 months or longer. I know the Breeze and Stiff Breeze are pretty fast turn around times at 4 weeks. With a small custom factory there is a chance for delays, but there is a big payoff if your patient. You may get your speakers in the exact allocated time of 30 days. If your going to upset if the target shipping date is delayed by a week or two or three, buy from one of the thousands of manufacturers that can ship out your new speakers to you within days. Or buy used. |
Yeah, Toddnkaya is right. What Vapor offers are built-to-order speakers for the most part (occasionally you may find pairs that were built to be used at shows). And that gives you the opportunity to customize them in some way if you so choose (exotic, expensive capacitors, different finishes etc). But if waiting is a no-go for you, your Vapor options will likely be quite limited.
For me, I'm willing to wait for an end game speaker, whether that means enduring a long build time, or waiting for a used pair of speakers I am interesed in to come up for sale used at a price I can afford. |
The new KEF Reference 3 looks interesting and promising. Why not PMC Fact 8 or twenty.26? Try to audition these at a dealer and see if you like them. |
Yeah maybe you're right about the wait, I'm in no big hurry anyway. how do the breeze or the stiff breeze do with music like tool nine inch nails avenged sevenfold? I would think the stiff breeze would handle that type of music better than the breeze would? |
I am very happy with my Aerial 7Ts. They fit your budget nicely! |
With your huge 15inch sub , I would think both can handle that type of music. You do want to be careful not to tear the ribbon though. |
Really you think the breeze will handle that type of music ok? because I can get the breeze right now, not in the color I would like but it could give me a good idea of the sound they produce, and then I could get what im really eyeballing, the nimbus. But yeah you're right custom speakers and stands are worth the wait. |
The Stiff Breeze will most certainly be better for the type of music you listen to. I got to hear them at Axpona a couple of years ago and liked them quite a bit. If your room is not real big, they will play quite loud without being stressed and are about 4 db more sensitive than Breeze. The bass extension posted on their site is spot on and quite surprising for the size of the speaker. Another thing about the Stiff Breeze is that that it is essentially the top half of Nimbus. The Nimbus adds an Acoustic Elegance 15 inch woofer to the Stiff Breeze. AE woofers are absolutely top notch. If you like Stiff Breeze, there would be no reason to believe you wouldn't like Nimbus provided your room could accommodate them sonically.
I agree with both Toddnkaya and Roscoeiii in regards to the necessity to be patient. Builds can take a long time and have unexpected delays. The end result is worth it provided you can exercise patience. Let us know what you decide. |
Vapor is a custom speaker shop, when you discuss your tastes for music and sound...ryan and pete will make suggestions for upgrades. Vapor, without a doubt, offers sensational speaker for the money. For example, I purchased the lsa statement 1's and terry london did a very nice review of them. that is, until Terry London reviewed the stiff breeze and he pretty much said in his review that Stiff Breeze trumped the lsa's easily. |
Yeah vapor told me the same thing that the stiff breeze would handle my musical taste better, and offered to send me the breeze to tide me over until they had my stiff breeze ready. sounds like a good deal to me. |
I'm going to go with the stiff breeze for now and if I feel the need to upgrade I'll take a more serious look at their higher offerings. I think at some point I'll end up with the Nimbus just love the looks of that speaker, and the 15 inch driver in it makes me wonder if I would ever need to run any subs with these speakers? and so far their customer service is excellent, and good customer support is what sold me on Parasound and psa subs. I'm going to place my order Monday, so it'll be at least a month give or take till I get them, but until then id sure like to hear about anyone's experience with vapor. |
I'm sure you'll be happy. Ryan is a big NIN fan and the Vapors do really well with your kind of music. |
No experience with Vapor, but dude if it were me. I would get the PMC IB2is for sale here on Audiogon for $5K. Just simply outstanding speakers. |
PMC IB2i
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrHQe2N4w2o |
"01-17-15: Jughead
I'm going to go with the stiff breeze for now and if I feel the need to upgrade I'll take a more serious look at their higher offerings. I think at some point I'll end up with the Nimbus just love the looks of that speaker, and the 15 inch driver in it makes me wonder if I would ever need to run any subs with these speakers?"
Spoken like a true audiophile. You may be looking for an end game speaker, but you're not looking to end the game. |
Buy the Nimbus (or something in that general price) now and get off the upgrade train, if not permanently, for at least a longer period of time. The Stiff Breeze is another $2,500 speaker, and while it may be a great $2,500 speaker (I have not heard it), it is not the answer to "What speaker for $10k?"
If you want to make a significant leap forward in the quality of your sound reproduction you can't make it taking small steps. Just my experience, FWIW.
Best of luck in your search.
Jim Perry |
Yeah it never seems to end does it? my wife just shakes her head and says I thought you were done buying speakers 5 sets ago? I've had a parade of speakers come threw my house in the past 20yrs, and I'm sure its not going to end anytime soon. anyone interested in my stiff breeze? I'm sure I'll be looking to sell those in the next 6 months or year(lol). |
small steps are fun though. |
I love Vapor Audio. The Nimbus is my 2nd all time favorite speaker. Sounds amazing and I love the looks of it. I could justify spending $20k on a pair, if of course, I had $20k :)
Just curious, why not the sundog white? I would think that the accuton and raal would really please you... |
without hearing a vapor speaker I don't want to spend to much at first, just wanna get a taste of their speakers and go from there. the stiff breeze is the upper half of the nimbus and if I don't like it I don't think id have much problem selling them. And I agree the Nimbus is sexy as hell! |
Just wondering if there is a free trial period with Vapor speakers? If not what's the resale situation with them. Not sure what the risk is if you don't end up liking them or they're just not to your personal taste. |
I was thinking the same thing. Nothing to do with vapor but speaker preferences vary. Personally I would not risk a large financial loss. Buying used or vendor policies can help alleviate the risk. If it does not work out the money saved can still be invested as needed |
the ones your wife will like before she knows the price. |
I haven't ever seen a pair of Vapors for sale used. Hmmm... |
I've never heard any vapors so can't say. They seem like a very nice product. No idea how many pair have been made and out there but I think they have only been around a few years which might help account for scarcity used. Seems like a solid product one can build around with success just not a huge track record to date.
Would like to hear them someday plus the build quailty is supposedly top notch. |
The thing is unless your room is exceptionally large the world is your oyster for speakers with 10k to spend. Not to say there are not products that cost more but for most people's home applications the additional utility that might be present with some products probably does not matter much. If all else is done well. Good sound is a team sport. Speakers are key but can't do it all alone. |
You guys don't look to carefully enough . There was just a pair of Cirrus for auction a few days ago, and I have seen 3 or 4 other pairs of Cirrus. I also have seen a pair of Nimbus within the past couple of months.
Does anybody have an idea what the auction pair of Cirrus went for? Just curious. |
I don't understand how a thread about looking for "end of game" speakers up to $10K turned into buying the Vapor Audio Breeze? And yes there has been a number of Vapor speakers for sale on audiogon, almost all of them with cosmetic issues. |
I'd recommend getting to a show if possible. This is Vapor's main business model: shows, forums and word of mouth. Which seems to have worked very well. They are consistently mentioned in best of show reports. But no type of speaker is for everyone. While not in ideal settings, shows give you a great idea of what flavor best suits you. |
I vote for 2nd hand True Sound Works restored Apogee Duetta Signatures which use Graz ribbons are a ground up rest including improved frame, crossover, wiring etc. I doubt you would do much better with $10-$11k. |
