Jh,
"This is by far the best speaker buying experience I've ever had!"
I can all but guarantee when mated with the quality gear you have mentioned, you will be rewarded with one of the most holographic and mesmerizing audio experiences you've had (regardless of price, yes I said it). I'm not saying they are the best speakers I've heard, but they have qualities of immediacy, openness, naturalness, clarity, layering few possess. As you know I've had the latest generation G2's for a few months now and have owned several speakers in the $5-10k range. Most stereophile class A rated... Artemis eos full range, some JMR's,KEF's, Thiels and some others a bit out of the ordinary that were never reviewed, some true outliers.
The current Wavetouch speakers, when integrated properly into a system/environment and optimized, the room will absolutely be filled with natural dimensionality and convincing PRESENCE and VANISH. Obviously short of Full extension and room loading dependent the current Wavetouch loudspeakers' drivers and parts synergy IS THAT GOOD.
Thanks for enduring more nauseating praise.
Stay pumped... and use those 40 days. I don't know how many hours of play your speakers will be delivered with, mine took a good 300 to totally relax, and become effortless...When a speaker is delivering the goods it makes your whole body totally relax as well. No edge, nothing to draw attention to itself, leaving you in the moment.
Cheers |
Stop wasting your $$$ on $10k speakers or ultra expensive equipment! My last system consisted of a Sunfire Theater Grand III - (7) Marantz MA700 Mono blocks - NHT T-6 Evolution Towers and matching center & surrounds - and a Velodyne HGS-15 Servo Sub. I thought I had a decent setup until I redid everything (sold the old system with the house).
In the new house I went with a Pioneer SC-85 Atmos receiver ($1600) - EMP TEK R55Ti towers matching center & surrounds ($1700) and the HSU VFT 15H MK2 ($1006) - this new (at 1/4 the $$$) simply BLOWS away my old system. The EMP TEK towers image and soundstage is unbelievable - I actually had to get up to see if the center channel was on! These speakers literally disappear. As far as the sub goes - there is no comparison - the HSU blows the Velodyne out of the water. I'm hearing music/movies like I've never hear before!
I won't even get into cables - makes me sick to my stomach to think what I spent on cables for the old system (including a $700 balanced cable for the sub)! Today I'm using 'regular' Cable Matters for all the speakers and a $50 RCA to the sub. The funny part - is the room hasn't even been completed and I'm getting far superior sound with 'regular' equipment. |
Wavetouch will make my wife's breast bigger? sweet I'm in! something that is built and designed by an engineer means nothing to me, I work with engineers everyday. and most of them are just educated idiots! I don't think anyone is trying to divert attention away from the speaker, I just would like to know why you would bash something you've never heard? |
Also look at the Spendor D7. They have some great reviews. |
"02-11-15: Nyaudio98
News flash to the brilliant ones who don't get it, do you know the markup from dealer to retailer is sometimes 70 percent..so you audophiles who want to spend 10k on a speaker that cost the retailer 4-5k..go right ahead!!! Or, look for a conmpany that doesn't have those margins and actually puts more into the speakers then that!!!!! "
No offence, but you don't know what you are talking about. If there's one fundamental rule in business, its this: You never, under any circumstances, tell anyone what you pay for something. Its just not done. Even a half ass business person knows that one. If someone tells you what they pay for something, they're lying. So, unless you've signed a dealer agreement, you can't know what you are talking about. |
"02-12-15: Jughead
Wavetouch will make my wife's breast bigger? sweet I'm in!"
Even if they don't, you can upgrade her with the money you saved on the speakers. |
Yeah Wolfman I'm a wavetouch agent from the Iowa chapter. another thing about an engineer and the design of a speaker is this, what else is an engineers job besides design for a company? cost savings, how do we cut corners and save money for maximum profit. so physics becomes money, and science becomes money. |
Zd542
'Even if they don't, you can upgrade her with the money you saved on the speakers."
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at this, what a great comment. |
"Engineers are educated idiots", you say after having your digital alarm clock wake you up, took a shower off the public water works, took the freeway system to work in your Mercedes, walked up to your 15th floor office, booted up your computer, logged onto the internet, and posted how engineers are idiots. Self-righteous much?
"Why bash something I've never heard", well
- Why complain about the car marketed as having 300hp that only delivers 150, unless you've driven it
- Why complain about that bologna sandwich that they told you was prime rib, until you've eaten it
Does that connect the dots well enough for you? |
His name is "jug" head. He has a Master plan at work here I think. 👏👏👏 |
It's 50 percent on Nordast cables and 75 percent on Demo cables. Still a 3k pair os speaker cables that cost 1500 is very high!! Speaker cost 10k and dealer gets it for 5k or so. That is a huge markup. |
"02-12-15: Unclehub
Stop wasting your $$$ on $10k speakers or ultra expensive equipment! My last system consisted of a Sunfire Theater Grand III - (7) Marantz MA700 Mono blocks - NHT T-6 Evolution Towers and matching center & surrounds - and a Velodyne HGS-15 Servo Sub. I thought I had a decent setup until I redid everything (sold the old system with the house)."
That makes complete sense. If something works well for you, then it has to work for everyone. |
Regarding engineers, any piece of audio equipment that sounds good didn't get that way by being poorly engineered.
Marketing and engineering are very different disciplines. Marketing uses emotion(!!!) and engineering uses math (yawn). Anyway, it is quite possible for a speaker to be well engineered but then hyper-hyped by the marketing department. I recall a speaker whose claimed bass extension was an exaggeration by about one octave... but it was still a very well-designed, good-sounding speaker, despite the fantasy claims of the marketing department.
In order to impart directional control of sound waves, a device must be at least 1/4 wavelength long in the dimensions of interest. For example, the baffle step kicks in at the frequency where the edge of the enclosure is 1/4 wavelength away from the center of the woofer to either side, which means the baffle width is 1/2 wavelength. So a horn 2.5" deep will not have effective directional control below 1.3 kHz. Just wanted to put that in the record.
Unfortunately different yardsticks are used by different manufacturers for coming up with their efficiency and bass extension specs... but that would be another can of worms for another day.
Anyway a thread like this is a minefield for a manufacturer, and I've ventured in farther than is wise already.
Duke
dealer/manufacturer/mime in a minefield |
No it doesn't wolfman, like I said I work with engineers in manufacturing everyday, the production workers with no degree are the companies best engineers. and if a car is advertised as 300hp and only delivers 150hp isn't that false advertisement? this happened to sony saying their tv was 55inch when in fact it was 54.5 inches. and no I don't think if a system is right for me its right for everyone, some people think my Parasound amp and pre are junk! but I'll never get rid of them. and as far as speakers go I had some B&W 804s and could not stand the sound of them, and there is many who would disagree, to each his own. I'll know next week what wavetouch is like if it sucks I return them! |
Well, not all engineers are created equal. From what I read Duke is a pretty good one though.
I'm not an acoustic engineeer, but it makes sense to me that larger structures would be needed to effect lower frequencies.
I am a systems/software engineer and have some background in physics. Not that it matters....
With most companies its the marketing folks that determine what the public sees in that the task at hand is to make sales and teh consumers are not engineers.
So lots of nonsense from a technical perspective goes on there all the time. Ive seen it as an engineer working with marketing folks to help them understand how a product really works. What comes out the other end is mostly a function of target audience demographics.
With small companies the engineer may also be the boss and also the marketer wearing different hats at different times. So anything is still possible.
There is a lot of grey with the Wavetouch for sure. In home trials/satisfaction guarantees when honored take most of teh risk out of trying something different at least.
|
ALso good engineers tend to be expensive and most companies cannot afford enough good ones. Hopefully they have at least one or two somewhere..... |
"02-13-15: Audiokinesis
Regarding engineers, any piece of audio equipment that sounds good didn't get that way by being poorly engineered."
I agree, but you left out the other half.
Regarding engineers, any piece of audio equipment that sounds bad, didn't get that way by being well engineered.
"Anyway a thread like this is a minefield for a manufacturer, and I've ventured in farther than is wise already."
Not if they make good sounding products. |
"02-13-15: Mapman
Well, not all engineers are created equal. From what I read Duke is a pretty good one though."
That's definitely a true statement. The first part, anyway. I don't know Duke so I can't really say anything good or bad, about him. I would add to that, by saying the best engineers are the ones who realize products can't be designed in a vacuum, and aren't afraid to use other resources to make a better product. Anyone who tells you how something is going to sound just by looking at a spec sheet is full of it. Those are not the people you want designing your gear. |
A good engineer need only know their technical domain best in order to be the best engineer.
But there is more to delivering good engineered solutions. Its a team sport. In that context, the best engineer is the one that uses their expertise to help deliver high value to the end user. High value and best technical implementation are not necessarily the same thing as we have seen many times over the years in terms of what products succeed and which do not.
Apple is the classic example these days of applying technology effectively over time to meet the most user needs. |
"Anyone who tells you how something is going to sound just by looking at a spec sheet is full of it. "
I would agree with that. However, a good engineer will know how to put those specs to best use in order to meet the goal. |
But the wavetouch will give my wife bigger breast! would a measurement on these speakers make everyone feel better? I'll keep you posted on how big my wife's breasts are getting. |
"02-13-15: Mapman
"Anyone who tells you how something is going to sound just by looking at a spec sheet is full of it. "
I would agree with that. However, a good engineer will know how to put those specs to best use in order to meet the goal."
You're right, of course. The point I was trying to make was that there needs to be a blend between the science portion of the design, and the qualities that go beyond the specs. And that the designer not only gets that blend right, but they need some outside feedback as well.
I've been fortunate in that I have several friends that manufacture equipment. I occasionally take part in listening to new designs before they go into production. They always tell me they must get others opinions. Its not optional, because we all have different listening abilities, personal tastes and equipment. To me, doing it this way makes sense, and its also great to see how some of these products are made. |
"02-13-15: Jughead
But the wavetouch will give my wife bigger breast!"
You're missing the whole point Jughead. There's more than one way to use the Wavetouch. Its a very simple, but useful technique. You Wave with one hand to distract her, and you grab with the other. At least, that's how I do it. |
Yeah buddy! just got an email from wavetouch, speakers will ship sat, so I should have them sometime next week. let the breast enlargement begin. Yay! |
I would vote for a pair of B&W 803 Diamonds but I fear your Amp won't do them justice |
So.... Irrespective of this threads outcome, for all future customers..
Just use Agons speaker search function to generate a list of potential speakers in this price range. Simple as that...
Enough said!! |
Just one more "for the record" comment:
A device does not have to be proven to work, nor convince any PHD panel of experts that it will work, in order to be granted a patent. The criteria are "novelty" (it must be something new) and "non-obviousness" (it has to be something that is not obvious). So I could apply for a patent on an underwater disco strobe as a shark repellant device, and might very well get it, regardless of whether or not it works.
Duke
filed and abandoned several patent applications |
Audiokinesis,
I understand your last comment, and I have no doubt that you're right, but what was it in reference to? |
Zd542,
My post was in response to this, posted by After_hrs, in reply to Onemanwolfpack's critique:
"The fact that you are blasting a patent (anyone can look it up) that was issued by a panel of PHD accredited experts in the field shows that you are not close to the expert you claim to be."
My point being, there was no panel of PHD experts evaluating the merits of the device in question. The granting of a patent is not evidence that a device does what it is claimed to do.
Duke |
Duke,
I don't think you should even respond to Onemanwolf.....
He just has two posts here and no reputation.
From the time that rest of us folks have on this forum, we know your achievements. And someone has already suspected Onema.....'s intentions, if you read the complete thread. |
I've had several pairs of B&W speakers and they are great and very well made speakers, but just not my bag. for me they are too brite and in your face very clinical sounding. and with my VA Mozarts they are very warm and musical and image like crazy! but too laid back and polite. sooo im trying to find that that speaker that's in between the Mozarts and the B&W. GOOD LUCK! RIGHT? |
I got an old pair of magnavox book shelf speakers, mid eighties I believe, that sound just fine. I don't think I gave a dime over $40 for. I can't really tell the difference between those and $10,000 speakers. I'd be willing to part with those if you're interested. |
I got an old pair of magnavox book shelf speakers, mid eighties I believe, that sound just fine. I don't think I gave a dime over $40 for. I can't really tell the difference between those and $10,000 speakers. I'd be willing to part with those if you're interested. |
If you could stretch another $2k, the Salk Exotica 3's would be head and shoulders above any retail-priced speakers at $10k. |
The wavetouch shipped sat am so I should have them by wed. so I'll give them a least 200 hrs to break in, and we'll see what happens? |
Hey Sevenshy what color are those Magnavox speakers? and do you have stands? |
The speakers are like a vintage walnut woodgrain, nothing real special about them. No stands, I just set them on top of my entertainment center. |
Why do I have the feeling that Sevenshy and Wolfy are the same dude and a bit jealous about Jughead buying Wavetouch speakers? Let it go man, your speakers are run of the mill. |
End of game to me means either you don't want to upgrade and be on that path of constant up grading or maybe your just tired of it. I developed my ears first by going to and still require some kind of live experience once every 2 weeks of either classical orchestral, chamber or jazz. When I started on that path it was much easier to choose a set of speakers that matched what I was hearing rather than never going to live music and having some "revelation" from the next thing (usually more expensive)because I didn't know what a middle c sounded like, hammer tones on the piano, the bite of a good trumpet or brass section.
In the last 10 years I have enjoyed Vandersteen 3aSigs and Mod 5s. I happen to hear some Von Sweikert VR 3s and liked the live edge I heard so got a pair. About a year ago put them in the HT system and acquired some VR5s for 2 channel only. I like them a lot, they seem to match what I hear on solo, timber and groups of instruments. Voices sound projected with not so much sibilance with an overall presentation representing what I know and what's been recorded. |
Based on what I have heard in person (in homes and audio shows), I'd put those Exotica 3s on a short list as well. They and Vapor offer extremely good sound for the money. |
Aedv8sc, Yeah I hear you man. I think it boils down to finding different sound for me and I still have not found it. will the wavetouch be that sound? idk but I have to give them a shot, and if not the search goes on. but I can say this has been the most fun I've had buying speakers. btw sevenshy I'll give you 40 cents for those Magnavox speakers. |
40 cents? You can't buy these anymore. .These are pretty rare. I realize Magnavox doesn't make $10,000 speakers, but like you said earlier, you have to give them a listen first before you judge them. I don't think there is "the end of the game speaker" for you Jughead, this wave touch gimmicky speaker has sparked your interest but you'll send send them back in 38 days..and when you do consider these Magnavox bookshelf speakers. ..for real. Save yourself $9950..cheap speakers always sound better. Jealous? Really Bam? |
Roscoe, where did you hear the Salk Exotica 3? Vapor may sound good but the delays in shipping are just brutal from what I have read so far. You may be in good shape if the speaker is already built like a show demo piece.
Either way, Salk hands down has a great track record. |
Jughead did you ever take a look at the Nola KO's? |
ok sevevshy if the wavetouch isn't my bag I'll give those Magnavox speakers of yours a shot. |
"02-18-15: Jughead
ok sevevshy if the wavetouch isn't my bag I'll give those Magnavox speakers of yours a shot."
I was reading a post the other day and one of the posters said they bought a new pair of WT not long ago, and they are very happy with them. I only bring it up because its not one of the big speaker companies that have a lot of info available on them. |
I'm sure you read the glowing review in the Review section here on Agon ah? |
"02-18-15: Toddnkaya
I'm sure you read the glowing review in the Review section here on Agon ah?
Toddnkaya (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
No. I don't read reviews. It was just another poster who made some comments. |
Well, not all engineers are created equal. From what I read Duke is a pretty good one though. I've said it elsewhere in different terms; one mark of a good engineer is the ability to understand what is negligible and and what is not in a good design. In the case of audio (which is a less precisely defined science than many of us would like to think), the best designs seem to emerge from talented designers that not only know the technical side inside out but also listen to their designs and are pragmatic enough to know to trust what they hear. Duke is one such designer! |
I'll know sat what my first impression of WT is, I'll give them a few weeks to break in and see what happens. I wonder what those Magnavox speakers of sevenshy's sound like? |
