I have a $2500 budget and haven’t had any luck finding the right floorstander in the local hifi shops, so am seeking advice from owners of internet-direct speakers.
I have an all tube system with a 30W triode EL34 amp. My system is in the living room, 12’ x 16’ x 8.' Speakers can be a maximum height of about 40 inches. Most important to me is a realistic laid-back presentation with open, transparent sonics. For example, I really like the KEF sound. I listen to 90% Classical, but also take my Led Zeppelin very seriously. I have a sensitivity to high frequencies (hyperacusis), so there must be a smooth and natural top-end. And I’m done with metal tweeters since I haven’t found any that work for me.
There have been many Tekton threads, so I’m familar with some of their models, but I’m very intrigued by the Omega’s. Can anybody share their experiences with the Omega line or offer advice on floorstanders within my budget? I’m open to used or demos.
Thanks for your comments @samsca . I forgot about this thread, I should have updated it and thanked everyone. So, thank you everybody for your contributions. I bought a used pair of Devore Gibbon Super 8's. They're mint with a beautiful cherry finish and are furniture quality. They sound wonderful and are the perfect size for my room, pulled 2.5' from the wall and I sit 8' away. I also upgraded my amp to an Atma-sphere S-30 mk3.3. I first asked Ralph about the pairing and he said his amps like Devore.
I am very happy with my pair of Omega super alnico monitors. I run them with a parallel 45 tube amp. Only 4.5 watts.
I believe the reason they sound so magical is because there is no crossover. Crossovers add distortion. The SAM’s sound so pure and elegant. Like another reviewer said , they just draw you in like no other speaker. I agree that they might not do the highs as well as other speakers and the bass is not as strong either but who needs to hear more highs and bass when it sounds average. I’d rather hear the music more real and closer to the live performance. Hope you find what your looking for.
Hi Rebbi, I really enjoyed your well written and informative speaker review. You did what I often advocate, trust your ears. Given the design of this speaker and its load impedance characteristics it makes sense that the Krell amplifier would be the better choice.
The Triode Master version of this speaker would for certain be a better option for your Audio Note Kit 300b SET amplifier. Makes sense to me, 16 ohm and flatter impedance curves and simpler crossover, oh yeah! Rebbi I always appreciate your contributions to this forum. Happy listening. Charles
charles1dad and Gwalt, I posted this reply in the wrong listing sorry.
I tend to listen music at bout 70-85db in my condo thats more then enough to be satisfying and not disturb my fellow condo dwellers. Yes the LV's do come alive some what more with 15-20wch but I do think they are still very good with only 8wch. I'd bet a 300b parallel amp would be glorious with them. I may look at having my amp modified for parallel operation. wow can you imagine 16wch! lol
@jond , yes a very different amp than mine. I'm looking at reviews and seeing that a 20 to 30W tube is needed to get the most out of the Hologram M3 Turbo. High power SS is even better.
@lowrider57 Just skimmed through the rebbi review and one thing to keep in mind he's comparing an 8 watt SET amp, albeit a good one, with the Krell. Your amp, which is a 30 watt PP as I remember would be a totally different animal then the AN amp rebbi owns. @rebbi Fantastic and comprehensive review and great pics thanks!
I've been doing some research and appreciate all the suggestions. I spoke to Louis at Omega and he described his single driver speakers just as @seikosha has... "very direct and immediate sounding and don't hide anything." So, Louis recommended the Super 3 High Output XRS, which has 2 full-range 4.5" drivers.
The Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower is a possibility since they offer a 30 day trial.
Klipsch... there is a dealer not far from me. Regarding horns, I found that listening to my friend's system, I eventually felt some "listening fatigue."
But the most intriguing speaker is the Spatial Audio Hologram M3 Turbo S. $2795/pair with a 60 day trial period (slightly above my budget). TMR has a used pair (8/10) for $1999. The @rebbi review makes a great case for owning this speaker, but his impression is based on using a Krell amp to drive the demanding impedance curve. https://stevefolberg.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/enlightened-engineering-musical-magic-the-spatial-m3-t...
The Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower may be worth exploring further. Sounds like it might work with your amp, and it seems equally at home with both rock and classical music. One of the main reasons I'm mentioning it is that it's available with a Raal ribbon tweeter that I think your ears will really like (completely different design than what Dali uses). I heard it during an extended audition of a Selah speaker, and it is very sweet and detailed but never even approaching harsh in any way -- buttery smooth is the way I'd describe it. The stock silk dome tweeter seems pretty refined as well, but if I'm you I go with the ribbon hands down. Seems like this speaker may push all your buttons. Here's a review just FYI...
Thanks for clarifying the difference in tweeters. It's interesting that you had to find the right synergy of components to make the Gallos work for you.
The air motion tweets in the goldenear sound much different than the Dali ribbons, much warmer and more forgiving speakers overall. Smoother than most domes as well. I'm glad the dac has helped. For me it was a combination of mullards plus a new usb cable that ended up giving me a great balance with natural highs.
I am using Gallo CL-3’s with KT77s. My amp is switchable ultra-linear/triode, but I much prefer to listen in 30W triode. The bass the Gallo’s produce is astounding; I’m using short tip-toes underneath. My Audio Note preamp and DAC dig deep with tight bass. It’s possible that my amp lacks the power to fully drive the Gallos. But since buying the AN multibit DAC, the highs are sounding much more natural.
I like the idea of a speaker with a powered subwoofer, but I’m not sure about the ribbon tweeter. I demoed Dali’s and didn’t like their ribbons.
Lowrider - do you have the Gallo CL-3 like me? I used to drive them with a 50w tube amp that was switchable to 25W triode - that was nowhere near enough to drive them properly and 50w was right on the edge. It wasn’t until I replaced the EL34 with Gold Lion KT77 that I felt like the amp was a good match, but even then I found myself wanting more headroom and bass grip so I moved on to a hybrid integrated and rolled some NOS Mullards in the preamp section. The Gallos are singing like crazy now - not even a trace of hardness, glare or harshness and the bass is absolutely ridiculously good - deep, full and tight.
Anyways, to your question, I don’t think going to Tekton will be a great move for you if you love Kef, which are pretty laid back and rolled off a little at the top end (which makes sense that you like them even with the metal tweets). I can’t speak to the Omegas as I have never heard them but they do look beautiful. Based on your sound preferences I would throw a curve ball in there and recommend one of the Goldenear speakers - perhaps the 3+ new or 2+ used. They are voiced on the warm side and don’t require current for low freq control because of the built in subs.
Hi Gwalt, I definitely understand your context that's why I am curious if Glenn has done this comparison in his system and If so what is his impression. Charles
Thanks Charles, I wanted to clear the air by reiterating you CAN drive these speakers with 8 WPC 300B SET but these are voiced so nicely that 20 WPC + goes way further in enhancing the speakers capabilities especially in the bass. I did not play them at high volumes to find this out. Certainly Charles comments above in his last sentence applies. I think Kevin Scott likes them with AN amplification because he considers LV to sing there and he simply has the resources to do so as he is a dealer for AN. Would love to hear his fully dressed LV horn but doubt that will ever happen. Gwalt
Hi Glenn, Insightful comments from Gwalt as usual. Have you tried a higher power amplifier with your LV and was it an improvement? I realize that room size, listening level and music genre are relevant factors to consider. Charles
Hello Glenn, I owned the OBX-RW (mkll) and drove it with a 8 WPC Border Patrol amplifier. It was very nice but Kevin Scott the inventor of the 25 year old plus design recommends 20 WPC at a minimum. Gary Dews of BP, the US Distributor, drives them with either an 18 WPC SET or 20 WPC PP amplifier he designs. Speaker load ratings are deceiving depending on many factors. Later I drove them with a 45 WPC Jadis SET amplifier and it literally woke the speaker up with much better control and extension. They are a wonderfully refined musical speaker......a listen to for hours-years speaker but doubt they are for rock and roll but I never tried it. Set up out into the room they also image wonderfully. Small to medium sized rooms work best for them. My room was 15 X 20 and they breathed fine. I only sold mine because I desired a fuller range speaker since they were limited in bass to 35 HZ. Otherwise, with proper amplification, and I don't think 8 WPC is doing them justice, they are voiced beautifully. If I were a two speaker in the house lover this one would have been it. The OBX-RW is now in Mk. lll revision with some cabinet and crossover modifications. No idea on them but Gary Dews knows the speaker well and would be able to confirm the sound and changes if this is the model you desire but understand the auditorium line has several models. Gwalt
I'd second the Rethm recommendation. I picked up a pair of used Trishnas for $2,750 on Audiogon, running them on 3.5 watts (2A3 Triode Labs). And, I'm doing the most taboo of things, using the high pass crossover on my JL E112 sub (so, pre-out to E112 to 2A3 amp). I'm using these in a 20x30 room and they don't get lost. I got them for my office, moved and the new office doesn't accomodate them, so they're in the living room. Shockingly good speakers.
Hi Glenn, Thanks for providing the very interesting comparison of the Living Voice and Audio Note speakers as heard in your own system. I find it intriguing that the LV is voiced using the esteemed Kondo components. That’s quite a litmus test for a speaker in such a reasonable price range.
Glenn I’ve heard the Tekton Double Impact and it is a very good sounding speaker. I have not heard the LV but it universally receives high praise. I’m very enthusiastic regarding high quality easy to drive efficient speakers and good low power amplifiers. It good to know that the LV Avatar is easily driven by your 8 watt 300b SET amplifier.
Another quite interesting candidate in this category is the Canadian made (Toronto) Coherent Audio speakers. These are reputed to be excellent sounding and very easy to drive with lower power amplifiers. This particular niche in High End audio offers much in the way of exceptional musicality and very natural sound quality. Charles
@lowrider57 Not wanting horns is your choice...to each his/her own. You might not be familiar with, nor have heard, the Klipsch models Wolf, and I, mentioned. But fyi, the Klipsch Cornwall and Lascala designs are floor standers, and the Heresy design work well on the floor with their angled risers. All 3 are very efficient. Happy shopping.
According to google $3K CAD is $2385 USD. Interesting notes on Living Voice vs AN @glennewdick I run ANJ-lx's myself. I know member grannyring just picked up or was about to some Living Voice speakers hopefully he will post some impressions sometime.
Charlsdad, I find the living voice easier to drive then the AudioNote. but the ANE’s are rated higher then actual as testing shows. Also the Living Voice has a better overall load characteristics 6ohm nominal and they don’t swing much lower. they do not play as low as the ANE’s however but I found the lower end ANE’s to be sort of a one note bass speaker anyway. the LV’s are much faster and better detail then the AN’s and in my house more musical. I find I can get satisfying levels and control with my 8wch 300b amp on the LV’s not so much on the ANE’s they like double that at least.
Also that link is in Canada so Canadian Dollars so take 30% off for US$
Worth it if you can swing that much better speaker then the two you are looking at by far.
I didn't know Steve did that with his speakers. But It would't matter much to me because they sound really really good in a natural way. If I was in the market for a standmount in that price range those two would be at the top of my list.
Go for either of the stand mount PranaFidelity speakers: Bhava or Fifty90. You'll spend a bit more, but get more in return. They combine naturalness and speed without etch or faux detail.
Had an Omega SAM paired w a line magnetic amp and found them to be very good. The bigger cabinet helped the low end greatly. It uses the omega alnico driver. A lot will depend on the type of music u listen to. Vocals are outstanding. Upgrading to a devore, msg me if u have any interest. Wish u the best.
If you are looking for single driver speakers with tube amps you must have the Rethm speakers in your list. They have wide range of products starting from the cheapest bhaava to their flagship saadhanas. I own their top model. They are just coherent with full spectrum sound.The unique thing about them is their powered bass module. www.rethm.com
Hi Glenn, The Living Voice (LV) and Audio Note E (ANE ) is a very interesting comparison of two very well regarded UK speakers of similar sensitivity. Would it be fair to say that the ANE is an easier speaker load to drive (and providing deeper bass/weight ) and the LV is perhaps more refine (and open) sounding? Granted there are numerous versions (options) of the AN available. It seems that either would work well with modest power but high quality amplifiers. The LV is certainly less known than the AN brand in the USA. Charles
Living Voice Auditoriums are a very nice speaker and used in NA is hard to find, 94db, revelator tweeter so silk dome and very detailed but musical. I moved to these from AudioNote ANE Lux and never looked back. Also I have to say Living Voice is a wonderful company to deal with.
I have the Omega SAM HOs in my main system, and also the 3i, and I previously had the regular SAMs for a while, and I have heard the Tekton Impact Monitors.
The key to get the most out of the single driver Omegas so that they can handle complex music easily is to take the low bass off of them altogether, and yes, use a subwoofer or two. This frees up the drivers from trying to replicate the bass notes, which in turn keeps the single drivers from distorting, and utilizes your amplifier (an 8wpc SET amp in my case) much more efficiently and keeping them out of the >25% of available power range where distortion may start.
Many ways to accomplish this, like using passive filters, but my latest is to use a left and right channel convolution filter .wav that I generated using room correction from REW software, and using that filter within HQPlayer. Sounds complicated but its really not. Very effective.
Speaking of Klipsch, you could buy a pair of Cornwalls ( used ), get new crossovers and tweeters from Bob Crites, dampen the mid horns, and, you are set. Same with Lascalas, but a subwoofer ( 2 subs are better ) would be necessary.
I recently bought a pair of new Klipsch Heresy IIIs which seemed to meet my efficiency needs, which they do. Having used various "tower" speakers for decades it's interesting to have these things on the floor with their slanted little "stand" (I have them on maybe 1.5" butcher blocks with vibrapods between the speakers and the blocks) and they do seem to like being there (tried 1 foot stands but the Heresys seem to prefer the floor)…I use these with a couple of REL subs as they only go down to around 58hz on their own…people sort of forget about these speakers as they've been around in various versions seemingly forever, but the newest version sounds amazingly clear and musical in a well sorted system…a perky and coherant speaker.
I was looking at the Omega site and there's a Junior 8 XRS demo model on sale and it looks like a great deal. This model should give you a real nice bass extension that their monitors may lack. Looks stunning too.
I have both Omega super 3i and super cone rs8 Omega speakers they will play classical but the rs8 will give you a lot more , tekton impact monitors will play classical effortless , more layering, tekton $2200 , 3i $700, rs8 $1600.
While I've not heard any of the Tekton loudspeakers I have lived with my Omega Super 3i's for just over a year. They, of course, have the RS5 driver and while I could live with them without subs, they are far better with the 2 Ohm subs I have (I use an Outlaw Audio ICBM-1 for crossover duties). I can honestly say with this configuration I really dig the sound. I'm hard-pressed to find much to fault at $700/pair and yes, their strength is the mid-range.
As Rebbi mentioned, Louis is great .. don't hesitate to call and have a chat with him.
For reference I have Magnepan MMGs, Ohm MicroWalsh Talls, and Mark & Daniel Rubys in storage.
Thanks, helomechanic, but I need higher efficiency than 86dB.
@rebbi , thanks, Full range or single driver speakers have a particular kind of sound. Some people really dig them, some people don’t. This why I'm here, for info such as this, and the plan is to take advantage of a trial period. Regarding your comments, I've read that the mid-highs on this type of driver can be less refined.
From the comments thus far, it seems that multiple drivers may be better for the range, texture, and dynamics of symphonic music. But I do listen to string quartets and chamber music as well.
So far, my favorite sound signature is from the KEFs (using a concentric driver plus low frequency woofers. But the Q series does not have wood veneer or bracing, the R series are not as efficient, and the reference models are out of my price range.
Someone may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, but both manufacturers offer a trial period, and I would suggest you take advantage of that to see how you like them in your room, with your associated equipment and your musical taste. I have had Tektons on loan from a friend and they are very nice, especially for the price. I owned the Omega Super Alnico Monitor a few years ago. Full range or single driver speakers have a particular kind of sound. Some people really dig them, some people don’t. That’s why I recommend taking advantage of the trial.Also, for what it’s worth, although the Omega‘s and other “single driver“ speakers of similar design do not have an electronic crossover, they do have a mechanical crossover, i.e., the transition between the main cone and the smaller, whizzer cone. Let me also add that Louis of Omega is a wonderful guy and a pleasure to deal with. I was one of those people who couldn’t warm-up to the full range driver sound, but Louis was never less than a total gentleman – I really came to like the guy very much. I don’t have much experience with Eric over at Tekton, but I know a lot of people like him, as well.
I really liked my Tekton 6.5t monitors. Great midrange with right amount of punch about 12" from wall. I tried their mini lores, too laid back for me. I upgraded to ProAc Studio 148s and have not looked back. There is a pair of the 148s for sale now. Unfortunately, both of these models are no longer made.
Thank you @seikosha , you've provided me with a complete explanation.
And thanks to @ihor and @jmolsberg for your listening impressions.
From the website... The new 8" driver is an improvement over the very popular 8" driver of
the past. The sound is like the RS5 on steroids. Very fast and dynamic,
and able to handle complex music.
I guess I would say a concentric is a design that attempts to do what a Single Driver speaker does. The 6.5" Omega speaker is just a single speaker providing everything that a tweeter and woofer do. The Whizzer cone (which is just part of that single speaker) is used in an attempt to direct the higher frequencies.
I really enjoy my Omegas, ( I have both their Alnico and RS5 models), but I'd be hesitant in recommending them to people who play a lot of loud complex music unless they have subs. Omega also offers the High Output models to address these limitations, but I have very limited experience with them so I can't attest to their success.
These speakers are very direct and immediate sounding and don't hide anything. For me, they sound significantly better with tubes (haven't heard First Watt designs but hear that's a good match) and can really demonstrate differences in amplifiers and upstream components.
Doesn't a concentric driver actually consist of two separate drivers
sort of in the same frame with a crossover too? The Omega is just one
driver covering the whole range with no crossover.
Right you are. It's a two-way speaker system with a driver and a horn in the center of the cone. This is the design used by KEF and Tannoy. Here's what I don't understand about the Omega design. From their website... - Full-range 6.5" driver with felt diffraction ring and 25mm voice coil - One-piece whizzer / dustcap assembly - Dual cone with twin rolled edge surround
Is this simply a different design that accomplishes the same result as a concentric?
ihor, just out of curiosity, do you have any subwoofers paired with your SAM? And/or, are you placing them near room boundaries to load the bass? I heard them in a smaller room than yours, placed about 3’ into the room, and the bass was tight but quite thin and the driver sounded confused an could not resolve complex passages particularly at louder listening levels. We switched them with a pair of Revel F206s in the same exact set up and the same passages were incredibly more coherent and simply excellent. Not exactly apples to apples but just as FYI.
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