2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
tasouli
39 posts
 
Volleyguy1

I simply could not fit a Duelund CAST cap into my mid/treble enclosure (at least based on the measurements I was given) so I opted for VSF Black cap and CAST resistors. All the remaining caps are Jantzen Audio Superior Z Caps. I thoroughly agree with you Volleyguy1, 30% (as a number) just doesn't tell the whole story with what I'm listening to right now. At 24 hours burn in I'm listening to soundscapes that are bordering on the awesome and sublime. Complex images and tones. My speakers are not at all what they once were.

Charles1dad - Thank you! I've read everything you have said in this blog. I understood what you wrote and believed your experiences but I still wasn't prepared for what I've heard so far. I thought that what would happen would be that my sound would be more articulate and real - this is more - it is far more detailed as well. I would've been satisfied with what I have as a final result but, at 24 hours?!?! I'm open mouthed.

I need to stress though, my upgrade included new Neotech internal wiring (which you already had Charles) and new Eichman-ETI speaker terminals to replace the large/fat brass terminals I had before. I think that these must have contributed to my gains here.

The truth is folks, I would never have imagined that this kind of money would produce this amount of gain. Older Coincident speakers like mine were made with great cabinets and good drivers, they just needed to be brought up to 2014 standards in their crossovers. In case anyone wants any advice, go buy a second hand pair of Coincidents - Total Eclipse or better - and upgrade them the way that's been suggested in this forum. A bargain in audio, no doubt about it. I have heard $30,000 speakers and, until my upgrade is fully run in, I'll reserve judgement, but, I repeat, I never expected this kind of jump in performance.

If we'd all lived in the same town, I'd be throwing a party for all of you to say thanks! In the meantime, thank you everyone.

Tas
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,533 posts
 
Tas, you are right! It seems almost all speaker builders cheap out on the crossover parts. Even speakers that retail for $20,000 or more! Folks spend lots of money ugrading gear, tubes, wire when upgrading crossover parts often times does more good than all the rest.

In terms of 30%, goodness that is an impossible number to come at in realality as we all perceive and judge this sort of thing with our own subjective scale... Bottom line is this, does your system sound more like music in an apprecable manner. If so...success!
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Tas,
Well your conclusions about the Coincident speakers match mine. Very good cabinet construction, excellent quality drivers and pretty simple signal path. Address the crossover with premium parts and you'll have an exceptionally sounding speaker (natural rather than artificial Hifi). I'm very happy that you achieved such a pleasing outcome.

For the initial money spent on the superior parts the end result is actually quite a remarkable value. You can use any top quality source or preamp/ amplifier and your speakers won't be outclassed, they'll easily keep up!

I agree with, this long thread (thanks Volleyguy) has been informative, friendly and fun.
Charles,
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Bill (Grannyring),
As usual you raise many good points with your insight.Based on my experience I really can't understand why builders of expensive speakers don't use bette Xover parts.I sincerely respect their talents and efforts but many(not all) seem to cheap out on the Xover portion of the speaker.Or they design a complex multiple part Xover with poorer quality caps, wire and resistors. It seems to me that fewer parts (simple design) but placing emphasis on the quality would be a better option.

To Coincident's credit their Xovers are very simple and direct. The standard speaker is very good sounding. Yank out the Solens capacitor and insert Duelund and it's a "Wow what happened" experience.This would probably be true for the vast majority of speakers. Speakers with complex-multi capacitors can become expensive to change if you decide to go the Duelund route . fortunately there are other less costly alternatives that would still be a worthwhile upgrade from the stock parts.

I never would have thought that the Xover could be so crucial to the overall sound. Another example of "everything matters".
Charles,
jwm
918 posts
 
It seems the crucial part of audio is the xover and power supplies in all other components. Ok everyone get your soldering irons out.
More to discover