Zu Soul Superfly

>>Maybe music lover who cannot be bothered with setup is actively listening to music where actual sound is not so important. Again, I wonder why they bother buying $2000 speakers.<<

There's more to music enjoyment for many people than audiophile imaging and mitigation of room issues. Put a pair of Zu speakers down where they work in the room, aesthetically or for room function, and you can still appreciate the tonal honesty in the midrange and the jump factor giveing them dynamic life. We shouldn't discount the music lover's appreciation of a good speaker just because they aren't interested in set-up to audiophile standards. $2000 can be cheap to the music lover looking for realistic tone and dynamic life.

>>But coming back to Bjesien question -- he asked something honest and reasonable and we should do our best to answer it honestly and reasonable too.<<

I'm pretty sure I did.

Phil

Phil:

It is perfectly OK that we have different opinions about speakers, music, Zu etc. That is what makes hobby fun.

However, I feel that we do not do Zu, or any speaker, any favors by not being honest about its function. If Bjesien looks elsewhere, he will find many Zu critics. Some of them have good points, some don't, but many of their criticisms come from bad implementation/expectation. Ignoring all of this does not help Bjesien or Zu.

So, you will see people complaining about dynamics when, in fact, they are running them with flea amps and Zus, while sensitive, are simply not that sensitive. Maybe horns will work with 2W SET. Not Zus.

You will see people complain about dry, cardboard presentation (and not the "magical midrange" which Zu is supposed to give). This is usually because they experience same upper bass suckout that I do and have done nothing about it.

You will see people complain about lack of foundation and weak bass. This is because speakers need to be pushed towards wall and corner, or maybe be put in smaller room. Or have improved Greiwe loading. Again, wrong setup.

You will see people complaining about ragged highs or poor imaging. Or flat presentation. This has always, I have found, been due to incorrect toe-in. Easy to fix, but we are talking milimiter movements.

You will hear people complain about lack of detail, resolution, or air. This is because they have "hi-fi" taste, which Zus (thank Gods) do not deliver. With exception of Essence.

Very occasionally, you will hear people complain about congestion at high level. This I think is simply consequence of FRD topology. There is simply no solution unless you go multi-driver, and that opens up problems of phase, time, crossover, sensitivity, integration, etc. etc. Take your poison. For me, it is no brainer, Zu all the way.

Look, I am huge Zu fan. But I am also honest about them! I buy them, I recommend others buy them.

If you put Zus in room without care then you will not get their tonal honesty in midrange, or dynamic life. They will sound good, but nothing special. That is what my Zus sound like off axis, good, but not special. So they will ask "why all the hype?"

If you do not care about placement, you lose tonal honesty because you get suckout in upper bass and HF does not resolve correctly. So, you get watered down fundamental right where you want it most plus screwed up harmonics -- where is your tone gone? Add a flea amp, and your dynamic life dies as well. So, people listen to this and say "Zus are bad speakers". Total shame and so unnecessary. And please note, nowhere do I mention "audiophile imaging" as I don't care about imaging at all.

An audiophile who does not care about placement should just buy headphones. Or stick with listening to Kenny G. It makes no sense for someone who plans to just "plop them down" to pay extra $800 and buy Soul Superfly over Soul standard. Maybe Zu should make Soul SuperDuperfly, and charge and extra $800 for them for people who really don't care about actual sound.

Let me give you typical example. You have people with speakers, one in corner, one against just wall. Corner loaded speaker is +2db at listening position. But they do not test this, and do not adjust balance to make up for corner loading.

That's fine, maybe they don't know, maybe they don't care, maybe it does not get in the way of their enjoyment of Kenny G.

But, would anyone buy speaker where left channel is 5db louder than right? Would anyone pay extra for speaker where one channel is louder than the other? Would you say "tone is so real, I do not care that left speaker is louder than right speaker!" Maybe you would, I cannot say. But ridiculousness of situation is obvious to me. Audiogon is full of people who go one about "detail, slam, air etc. etc." but seem deaf to fact that left ear is listening to whisper while right ear is listening to speech. It must be magic of Kenny G's dulcet tones.

Just for the record, I'd like to point out that the amplifier only "sees" the impedance curve (magnitude, frequency, and phase) that a speaker system presents; it doesn't "see" the individual drivers or crossover parts separately. Therefore, it is quite possible for a speaker with a complex crossover to present a smoother load to the amplifier than one with a minimalist crossover, or no crossover.

I applaud what Zu has done with their innovative format. They set the bar high and make the rest of us work very hard.

This statement I fully agree with: "Ragged response that shows short bandwidth abberations against a backdrop of general octave-to-octave balance can sound just fine and convincing, as opposed to a speaker with smoother curve but clearly visible octave-to-octave dysfunction, which can sound completely wrong." Let me add that dips are far less audible than peaks. In the Druid for instance, Zu did a fine job of juggling the inevitable tradeoffs in a way that minimized their audibility. It looks like the Soul has fewer tradeoffs, and if anything its designers are now even more expert jugglers.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

>>So, you will see people complaining about dynamics when, in fact, they are running them with flea amps and Zus, while sensitive, are simply not that sensitive. Maybe horns will work with 2W SET. Not Zus.<<

I've had 2w 45 and 2a3 amps in my living room, wired up to Definitions, Presence and Druids. It's not my idea of perfection but the flea-watters in the room were fully satisfied. Zu speakers really are 101db/w/m, but they're not 114db/w/m like some horns. Big difference, with other compromises. The true 2w aficionado is realistic about dynamics and listens for tone within the power limits of their amp. The people who think 2w isn't enough likely wouldn't like 2 watts on anything in that efficiency range. On the other hand, you can blow minds with the sound available through Definitions powered by a ZVex ImpAmp, which is kind of sheer dumb fun when you do it.

>>It is perfectly OK that we have different opinions about speakers, music, Zu etc<<

I don't think we have are apart on any significant issue regarding Zu speakers. Your observations of why some people perceive them as they do are correct. I only add that there is a music lover audience that will never cotton to audiophile obsessions, and they too can find Zu plug'n'play. Which I've witnessed.

>>An audiophile who does not care about placement should just buy headphones.<<

But there is a non-audiophile market that just loves music and will pay for good gear. Zu designs to be inclusive, not exclusive. It's one of their core objectives, to expand hifi appeal beyond audiophiles.

>>It makes no sense for someone who plans to just "plop them down" to pay extra $800 and buy Soul Superfly over Soul standard.<<

Over 30 years ago when I worked in high-end audio my best customer wore hearing aids in both ears. He spent gobs and of course only heard midrange, and felt bass. But his sense of tone correctness was uncanny, while his spatial perception was useless. People buy for lots of reasons. There will be people who buy Superfly over std. Soul just to get the metal hardware where plain Soul will have plastics, for example. What "makes sense" to audiophiles is irrelevant outside our little circle. And it *is* a little circle.

>>But, would anyone buy speaker where left channel is 5db louder than right? Would anyone pay extra for speaker where one channel is louder than the other? Would you say "tone is so real, I do not care that left speaker is louder than right speaker!"<<

Perhaps you'd be surprised about the number of people for whom a 5db difference of any kind just doesn't register.

>>Audiogon is full of people who go one about "detail, slam, air etc. etc." but seem deaf to fact that left ear is listening to whisper while right ear is listening to speech.<<

We agree. What passes for accuracy in hi-fi today is usually excessively detailed, over-resolved. The normal attenuation of top end in real acoustic spaces is replaced by close-mic'ing and rising top end, spraying out sounds you never hear from live music in real acoustic spaces. We agree.

I place my speakers by millimeters within a functional rubric in a room. Some people think that's excessive and they've spent much more than me. Even on Audiogon it's a diverse little circle. What can you do? There's no component for everyone.

Many of the risks you cite regarding reactions to the sound of unoptimized Zu installations are mitigated by Soul. I'll say it's one of the easiest speakers to place for good sound that I've ever worked with. Much less fussy than Druid. Dialing in Soul is more about choices for what kind of staging you want, presence or reticence, and room factors to mitigate, than about going from "ack!" to "ahhhh."

Phil

QUOTE "If you put Zus in room without care then you will not get their tonal honesty in midrange, or dynamic life. They will sound good, but nothing special. That is what my Zus sound like off axis, good, but not special. So they will ask "why all the hype?" END QUOTE

I do not want what I am about to post as being negative to Zu or their business.

Zanon makes a point with regard to just plonking the speakers in a room. Here in the UK, a large percentage of people buy from dealers, some of which are experienced in setting up and placing speakers in listeners rooms to get the best out of the system.
There are not many of us who have the expertise and patience to get such a speaker as Zu's to work at the optimum easily, unless by pure luck you plonk them down and it just happens to be the right position, distance from walls, toe-in etc.
That is why certain manufacturers in the UK have been the market leader, it may not be the best available but properly set up produces music which the best available not optimally set up would never attain (unless expertly set up).
Since owning the Zu speakers I have learnt more about music, room acoustics and what to do to set up a system to get the best out of it.
This brings me onto the subject of direct selling, a good experienced dealer is worth his salt with equipment/speakers such as these, and will bring more positive feedback from owners than otherwise, which in turn enhances the brand, giving them more business, which assists in R&D. We as the owners loose out because we have to pay more, but for that extra money we get excellent service, excellent installation/set-up, and excellent back up.
Manuals, talking with distributers is all well and good, but if you are not trained or it is not explained what someone is listening for when setting up systems/speakers then this will be all completely wasteful, and end up with the product being dismissed as not suitable.

This is all in my humble opinion.

Zu make excellent speakers (to date I have not heard anything better), have rock solid integrity and want to bring to people what they are passionate about - music.

Would love others feedback and opinions of the above.

James