Does raising speaker cables off the floor really make a big difference?

prof
I love the sound of my CJ tube amplification and always go back to it after trying solid state. Never done a "blind test." Even when some "objectivists" think tube amps are silly. I swoon over the sound of my "crazy expensive" (to the average joe), cartridge etc. No talk of blind testing, all subjective.

>>>>Gosh, don’t go out on a limb or anything.

prof
I ALSO am aware of the general features of, and rational for, the scientific empirical method. And I can’t just pretend that audio is magically excepted from the complexities that bedevil any other careful empirical inquiry - especially the unreliability built in to human subjectivity.(And this is something the "blind test naysayers" seem to routinely misunderstand: accepting that human subjectivity is unreliable doesn’t mean "a subjective impression is wrong and due to bias" or "what you think you heard wasn’t real." It only means that in many cases it *could* be error, so it can be hard to unravel the objective facts from the subjective impressions).

>>>>Oh, geez, just when you were doing so well. Blind tests don’t mean anything. You were on the right track with complexities, but then you went off the rails with your usual bind test hornswoggle. It’s the inability of humans to control all the physical variables. Or know all the variables, for that matter. It has virtually nothing to do with psychological issues. No, it’s not hard to unravel the objective facts from the subjective hornswoggle.

@prof ,

Yes, I've gone out of my "bubble" many a time. It helps to keep perspective. One mustn't stop learning.

I did so when it comes to fuses. After my experience with different brands on my previous integrated, it was apparent that they made a difference. With my latest integrated, I went in "knowing" it would and much to my surprise, they didn't. In fact, the one that came with it sounded the best.

As for raising cables, as I've already stated, I've never heard that big a difference, if any, all those years ago. It was only from reading this thread that I thought I'd try it and the difference was plainly evident, and much for the better.

Lowering them to the floor validated my findings. Simple enough thing to do, and repeatable. Now, do I need to have people over to witness it? That would be a silly thing to do and those that know me would end up seeing me in a less favorable light. 😄

As for the tangental, metaphysical argument of do I really hear what I think I'm hearing malarkey, don't go there. I've seen you do this to others as of late which I found a bit distasteful and led me to contribute less as a result. 

To see a topic of discussion devolve into a brow beating of sorts on someone who's syntax was in error or who didn't fully communicate thoughts (due to the nature of this format) as well as others (yet the meaning was there for anyone to comprehend) left a bad taste. 

Can't have that. 

All the best,
Nonoise

@prof   OK so initially you were happy in your subjective beliefs but some of your friends convinced you that you shouldn't believe what you did so you left your happy bubble in order to prove that being happy was wrong ?  And by golly you proved it ?  So what was the point ?  That truth is the goal regardless of how miserable it makes you ?  I came from the other direction--first believing solely in the empirical method and naysaying anyone who held solely subjectivist beliefs--and then i heard something i shouldn't have heard--and it was not measurable--but it made me happy--so, bubble burst i entered the world of voodoo gladly and happily but with restraint on the wallet--like i'm about to try with the tweak of this thread.  Given that all audio perception is subjective--i hear things you don't and vice versa i'm much happier just listening and enjoying the music without someone telling me i shouldn't or can't possibly enjoy it unless i've first determined if it's actually real...
Merry Christmas to all--my son is home and i'm happy and i sure can't measure that...

SkyWalker: "I don’t believe it".
Yoda: "That’s why you failed".

Even better than cable risers is no riser at all like this:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/27HlB3_bvVY/hqdefault.jpg

I am waiting for cable levitators. 

nonoise,

You have again missed the point.  Clearly the issue here as been the contrast between those who stick to a purely "subjective" paradigm where one's own subjective assessment is the ultimate arbiter of any audio claim, vs those who hold some suspicion of that sole approach, and who also look to objective evidence for claims as well as acknowledging the usefulness of controls like blind testing.


You seem to remain stubbornly in the former camp.

I did so when it comes to fuses. After my experience with different brands on my previous integrated, it was apparent that they made a difference. With my latest integrated, I went in "knowing" it would and much to my surprise, they didn't. In fact, the one that came with it sounded the best.
As for raising cables, as I've already stated, I've never heard that big a difference, if any, all those years ago. It was only from reading this thread that I thought I'd try it and the difference was plainly evident, and much for the better.

So, in other words, to my question as to whether you ever went outside your own subjective "bubble" the answer is "no."   You've simply stuck to exactly the same paradigm where your own subjectivity will trump anything else.


Whereas I have used the subjectivist paradigm and also pushed myself outside of it to question my own beliefs and perceptions, by trying blind testing, and acknowledging the technical arguments against some of the claims made in high end audio.


You seem stuck in a subjectivist bubble unwilling to challenge your own paradigm, but like to pretend that the "naysayers" are the ones stuck in a bubble.  

As for the tangental, metaphysical argument of do I really hear what I think I'm hearing malarkey, don't go there.

At your command!  Wouldn't want to challenge your bubble.

I've seen you do this to others as of late which I found a bit distasteful and led me to contribute less as a result.

Sure, you have no qualms about describing those you disagree with as exhibiting "projection" and "bias" and going to ridiculous lengths to stay in their "bubble."


But should anyone challenge your critique with arguments against it, well....you get all sensitive and "don't go there" and consider this "browbeating."  



This thread is asking if raising cables of the floor REALLY makes a big difference.  This is a public forum, not a church.  You will get different opinions on the subject, and people will give their reasons for their opinions.  I'm happy to hear your views, none of which have made me cringe away from wanting to post because they challenge my own opinions.


If you are so sensitive in the face of encountering opinions that may be at odds with what you hold to be personally sacred in audio, you may wish to grow a thicker skin and re-calibrate your expectations for public discussions.  Otherwise, you'll probably just keep producing more straw-man critiques in an effort to protect your bubble.


And if you enjoy playing with fuses, power cables etc, :  Enjoy.  Doesn't affect how I enjoy my system.