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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


hilde45
auxinput
2,921 posts
 
You would be surprised how many people say that there's harshness or brightness in the highs when they are actually hearing midrange frequencies, especially the upper midrange.  Most people hear frequencies in the 3000 kHz to 5000 kHz range and mistake them for the very high frequencies.

The Klipsch RP 600-M is crossed over at a very low 1500 hz between the woofer and the horn tweeter.  This means that titanium compression horn is playing a LOT of the upper midrange and can contribute to the harshness.

Same goes with the Focal midrange.

For the Salk, Satori has two tweeters that seem to match what is in the Salk:

Satori TW29B:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/beryllium-dome-tweeters/satori-tw29b-b-beryllium-dome-tweeter-...

Satori TW29BN:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/beryllium-dome-tweeters/satori-tw29bn-b-8-beryllium-dome-tweet...

The cheaper "B" model is flat, but if you look at the frequency response of the more expensive "BN" model, you'll see a slight uptick in the response at about 25 kHz.  Whether this can be heard by you is another matter, but in general, Be tweeters should not necessarily be harsh sounding like the older metal domes are.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,391 posts
 
Thanks for that elaboration, auxinput. At this point the key will be just to listen!
goose
732 posts
 
What about the Watkins gen 4 speakers?  Probably hard to find since they are direct sales.  I have heard the Dynaudio's need current to drive them.  Used pair of Harbeth 30's? 
decooney
2,334 posts
 
For the Salk 6M SS, it's said to be the same Be tweeter used in the Salk 9.5, and the "b" is a 4 ohm, and the "bn" is the 8 ohm version -and- also 1.5db higher sensitivity too.  With woofer and tweeters in the 92/93 range and the end result of 87db sensitivity on the graphs, maybe some padding going on there somewhere by design.  Will stay tuned. 
b_limo's avatar
b_limo
2,290 posts
 
Interesting.  I didn’t realize there were 2 different satori BE tweets.  I just looked at mine and have the neodymium instead of the ferrite.  Whew!

Hilde, BE tweeters are awesome!  They are detailed like the metal domes you have been listening to but have much less fatigue and aren’t too bright.

Have you ever heard any Beryllium tweeters yet? 
And also, are the Fritz Carbon 7’s your favorite this far amongst the speakers you have auditioned?
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