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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,015 posts
 
@decooney Thanks. I will try those things. Interesting AMT history.
@auxinput I'm not qualified to partake of a burn in debate. I decided to get 100 hours on the speakers right away and they're now up to 200. Rather than wonder about it, I just did it.
@kenjit Do you know what the word "complaining" means? (Rhetorical question.)
@mapman This is really the first hifi rig (beyond mid-fi) I've put together and only in this room. LTA sounds interesting but I think I'm sticking with the amps and tubes I just bought. The speaker is the variable at this point. Trying the stands idea if necessary.
@limomangus I was using the shoe analogy recently for this topic with a friend. I no longer try to talk myself into shoes that aren't quite fitting in the store. I never wind up wearing them.
decooney
2,133 posts
 
@auxinput
sorry, but I disagree here in burn in. I have burned in so many different cables, capacitors, power cords, equipment, speakers. They all require burn in. Some more than others. I know that tweeters could have a slight bright edge when they are new and will smooth out after a burn in process. I have had some connectors and cables that sound absolutely nasty in the middle of the burn in process, but you need to be patient and wait. Sometimes my equipment is absolutely unlistenable in certain points of burn-in and I just have to stop and wait another few days.


+1
I’ve found about 50% of the people don’t believe it and don’t want to, or simply cannot hear a difference in their particular system and choice of source components and speakers in particular. And those with extra amounts of $ and impatience dump the gear prematurely. One can pick up some decent 2nd or even 3rd hand deals this way with components barely used a few months or less. A typical replayed pattern with Pass Lab amps, people panic’ing after spending big $. I have a new phrase for that "be a 2nd owner of a 90 day old Pass Labs amp, save time and money, haha!"

Literally drove myself close to crazy again burning in some of the upper end SG Mundorf EVO caps (3rd set of amps) and brand new AP Crystal Solo OCC cables lately, thought I/we would never get there along with a few buddies doing the same in parallel. As a baseline check we’d swap back to former cables periodically to stop second guessing, then comparing back to other used sets of the same model. OCC copper is a rollercoaster too. Some days exactly as you described it, had to step away for a few days. Spot on.

Patience can pay off in some cases with some gear known to have long burn-in cycles to finally settle in. :)
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,593 posts
 
+2 on the burn in process. Whereever it’s possible, I always opt for burn-in offered by cable manufacturers. I don’t normally sit down for any critical listening before 200hours burn-in mark.

My rig is wired with Audio Envy’s OCC copper loom and I couldn’t be any happier. They ended my quest for best possible cables for my system.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
Besides one of Fritz's models, look at the Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand.  It's a magical speaker that produces no treble-itis.  In your sized room it should be plenty.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,389 posts
 
Maybe others here have knowledge of the amp that might help to clarify what can be expected.

In general it’s worthwhile to pay attention to impedance matching amp, pre-amp and speakers. Distortion results otherwise which can produce the symptoms observed. It’s generally more of an issue when higher impedance tube gear is involved.

Personally I would go no further until I confirmed all my components were well matched to each other in regards to impedance. Could be a wild goose chase with speakers otherwise.

Also what is a “tube R2R DAC”? Also what is a “QS tube”? What amp and dac specifically? That will help to assess. Thanks

Of course with tube gear, it also helps to test tubes to know the condition. NOS tubes sound like a good thing to many but they are still old and may not be a good place to start.

My concern Here is the focus on the speakers Unless it is safe to assume first that all is well upstream.


MIT terminator ICs are good for taming brightness but may just be a bandage and not address the root problem. I find DNM Reson ICs to be very coherent and easy on the ears. Those are my personal preference.
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