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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
dgarretson
2,597 posts
 
I can’t believe the unending debate on whether equipment breaks in or the ear accustoms itself to equipment. Equipment break-in-- particularly for electro-mechanical devices like speakers-- is for real. I’ll bet that most speakers that are put up for resale or returned to dealers never get through that process.

At the moment I’m breaking in a pair of Purifi PTT6.5-W04 mid/woofers. They sounded fine out of the box, but get better and better and better and better out to a hundred hours or more. A delimited in-home demo of new equipment is mostly useless.
decooney
1,948 posts
 
Agree with other posters about relocating the audio system and speakers to the bed location area, lengthwise. Even for a short term period, with hefty AC romex extension cables - if required. Should help gain further insight to that room and what else may be possible. Or go rent a small hotel conference room and re-test there! :) 

Reconfigure, re-test, report changes.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
@jackd It would be worth trying that. I’m suspicious that 6.5 ft ceilings will be a problem wherever the TOWER speakers are, but if I don’t try, I’ll never know. That said, I am NOT having a problem with any bookshelves I’ve tried in the room, so it may already simply be conclusive that (a) big towers won’t work, (b) bookshelves do work, and (c) small mini-towers might work.

@mapman See above. The tweaks are a good idea but not really applicable to towers. I’ll try that on stand mounts if I notice an issue. Listening with the speakers along the long wall almost creates a nearfield listening situation, by the way. But with towers, at least ones with AMT or Focal's metal tweeters, the ceiling interferes. I suspect it would interfere wherever I put a tower.
I have two sets of stands to work with are: 25" and 20". Thanks for the additional option!

@twoleftears Re: (2) you make a good point. Fritz’s tweeters are about 3 feet from the ceiling and the Martin Logans AMT tweeter is the same. But the energy coming out of those AMTs is probably greater and has a different dispersion pattern; I’m not sure how far the Focals were from the ceiling. Maybe it just comes down to the tweeter difference, given the room. No reason to exclude the VA’s, then — you’re right. There’s a store that carries VA stuff in Denver — Soundings. I might reach out to them if the current crop of possibilities dry up.

@dgarretson
I can’t believe the unending debate on whether equipment breaks in or the ear accustoms itself to equipment.
While that issue surfaced momentarily in this discussion, it’s not really been the focus. Thank god. I have no desire to see it debated here.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
Alright you bast*rds. ;-)

I’m going to test it out.
jackd
1,066 posts
 
@hilde45 

I don't think changing from the long wall to the short wall will do anything for tower speakers either especially if they are over the height of the average bookshelf and stand needed for proper ear level.  It should however make the room issues easier to tame as the space will be more defined. Whatever bookshelf you end up with be it the Salk, one of the Fritz's or others a lower stand and a lower adjustable chair should help.   A pair of bass traps in the corner, diffuser panels behind each speaker would be a start and then one of the cheaper rectangular panels for the first reflection point. Get the front baffle 36" from the rear wall and the sides two feet and work from there.  Either the Salk's or the Fritz's should love your QS gear as both Jim and Fritz use tube amps at home though Fritz is prone to changing up a lot like I am.  I have tried my Carrera's with six different amps and integrated's with two being tubes and they have shined with all of them.  Though I certainly don't need more speakers I have been really tempted by the pair of LS-7R's listed on Audiocircle at that price.
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