Springs under turntable

This is why Harbeths and other BBC designs are superior--you don't have to worry about any of this s$!t.

This is why Harbeths and other BBC designs are superior--you don’t have to worry about any of this s$!t.

Ignorance seems to be bliss indeed.... :)

Any speakers need to be isolated even Harbeth , any speakers/room need to be treat and acoustically controlled even with Harbeth speakers in the room,, and all house electrical grid produce noise floor which is too high even those containing Harbeth speakers....

Idolizing a brand name is not a solution to embeddings necessities.... :)

I find it interesting that anytime I interject my experience in a thread, it goes dead. Sorry @noromance .

Lets try to make things simple. Play something with a heavy bass line and put your hand on the speaker/subwoofer. Any vibration you feel is distortion. Ideally you should not feel a thing. If the floor resonates it will do so regardless if the speaker is spiked to it or floating above it on springs. In order to keep the speaker from transferring vibration to the floor the resonance frequency of the suspension would have to be below the lowest note the speakers are to reproduce which means below 20 Hz. Tap your speaker and they will bob for hours. Bring on the damping. Above that frequency the speaker is free to vibrate and add distortion.
Floors are very well fixed in all directions except up and down in the case of wood joist construction. The degree of stiffness varies so every floor has it's distinct resonance frequency. Speakers generally do not point up and down. This is a good reason to avoid down firing subwoofers. You are less likely to excite the floor's resonance frequency. In most cases you are going to be better off fixing the speaker to the floor even if you are not on slab. The best speakers are going to have a very stiff heavy enclosure. 

Okay so the Nobsound springs came and first surprise they are very small and stiff. Tested the full 7 springs with a 10 lb weight and it hardly compressed it. Also the springs fit snug into holes in the top and bottom. They aren't long to begin with and the holes limit the lateral range of motion from the top and bottom coil. Combined with each individual spring being quite stiff and altogether there's hardly any freedom for lateral movement. Nor is there a lot of vertical movement. This explains why the turntable doesn't bounce, twist under torque, etc.

My table https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 altogether with the Shelf is probably a good 50-60 lbs, close to what Nobsound claims is max load (70-80 lbs something like that). After a bit of testing I have removed 3 springs leaving only 4 per unit. The other 12 I will make into four more of 3 springs each to use under my phono stage. Because they do work quite well. Read on.

The Miller Carbon sits on a BDR Source Shelf, with BDR Cones and Round Things between the Shelf and the granite, which in turn sits on a sand bed cast into the top shelf of the solid concrete rack. When the springs go in they replace BDR Cones and Round Things. This is a big deal. The springs are not being compared to any old this or that. People can have their own opinions about BDR. Pretty much always anyone saying anything other than they're excellent you can be sure they never heard them. Would be nice if those eager to criticize my every post would take a moment to include with their response, "Of course he's right, I never heard them." Then go on with the unfounded accusations.

Where was I? Oh yeah. So the springs go in and right away wow this is pretty nice. Very nice.

Did I mention I never did the usual oh we must play this very carefully then play the exact same thing very carefully.... no not at all. Turned the system on, warmed it up, put the springs in, listened to them FIRST. Ha! Because we are millercarbon! (Having fun noromance, this isn't for you, its for them. They know who they are.)

Second track as usual the Koetsu limbers up and smooths out and its sounding really good. Al Stewart is singing and there's a totally seductive palpable feeling of presence that was crazy good before but now is even crazier gooder. Super smooth, yet even more detailed. Like it is hard even to describe as a sound. Its more a feeling than a sound.

Still, it sometimes seems as if there is not quite as much sparkle. Like the extension is there, but... Fortunately the springs are almost exactly the same height as one Round Thing and Cone and so swapping them out is surprisingly easy so out they come and back in goes the BDR. Sure enough, more extension, sharper transients and dynamics. But only on the top end. The midrange just isn't as rich and warm and palpably present any more. Its not even all that close. It reminds me of the difference between analog and good digital, or between tubes and a good solid state amp. Both are good imitations. They sound just fine, until compared side by side and then... sorry but you know what we call second? First place loser.

Nothing chez Miller stays stock for long and so long as they're out a little silicone grease lubes the coils where they sit in the cylinders, and a little fO.q tape goes on top of each set and then back in they go. Can't really say those little tweaks made any improvement but it sure didn't make them any worse, and I'm sure now, the springs are an improvement on BDR.  

I think because everything is sitting on granite which even damped by the sand bed still rings. You can hit it and it makes a very high frequency tink kind of sound. Dies off super fast but its there. Is it a coincidence that this high frequency ringing is close to the range where I was hearing a little less sparkle with the springs? I don't think so. I think the granite was ringing, at a high enough frequency the BDR wasn't damping enough, and so it was getting into and coloring the music. Also these same vibrations were smearing midrange detail. That's why the midrange is now so sexy engaging and real. I mean its not quite liquid lush but compared to most of what's out there it sure is.  

The springs aren't exactly what I would call warm. They strike me as very neutral. But people who actually like digital and solid state might not see things that way. BDR comes in 2 versions, MkIII are a touch warmer than MkIV. The difference is small but its there. The general rule is MkIII for SS, MkIV for tubes. My system being tube/analog is all MkIV. Point being there would probably be even less difference if they were being compared to MkIII.

Been a long time since I got the BDR, 1990's, so kinda forgot but that is probably north of $500 worth of seriously good vibration control bested (if narrowly) by $35 worth of springs.

Good work, noromance!