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Neutral Sounding Tube Amps - what gives?

If I'm in the market for a tube power amp or preamp, it's because I enjoy the sheer musicality of tubes, the romance they bring, the warmth, the inner-glow, the bloom, the whatever the heck you want to call it.

So why, when I'm reading current reviews and forum comments on the latest tube gear, has it suddenly become a good thing to encounter modern tube gear that sounds 'neutral,' 'transparent,' 'uncolored,' etc.? These were not the attributes that drew me to use 'valves' in the '80s (A classic Leak Stereo 20 driving Quad ESL57s), and it's not what I want from my tube gear today.  

Who changed the rules? Did anyone else get the memo?

With the above in mind, what do you consider to be the best tube preamp offering a 'classic' tube sound, but built in the last decade, say in the $10K new range? I'm not shopping, I'm just curious to see if I'm missing something.

Cheers

Rooze
128x128rooze
dentdog's avatar
dentdog
498 posts
 
I run a Supratek Chardonnay with some upgrades for the pre and like very much the 6SN7 presentation. It’s hard to describe in typical audiophile terms being that it just sounds right to me. More dynamic than any other tube unit I’ve heard but having heard and owned a few, just say it will shove when you ask it to. Great bass, never soft, never shrill.
As for amplifier, came across a demo unit Audiopax Maggiore M100.
Sometimes I just grin when the combo gets going. Runs KT88s in triode, six in each mono block, but I doubt it’s ever been pushed as speakers are 100 db efficient and the amp outputs 100W. When ramped up, the sound gets bigger more so than louder.
As an aside, Almarg, in his usual insightful and unpretentious manner, helped me sort out the particulars. Forever grateful to my favorite Audiogon poster. May he rest in peace.


decooney
1,993 posts
 
It’s also why some own multiple tube amplifiers with different circuits, tube options, and some variation in sound.

There are instances where stock low cost tubes offered in new amps can tend to sound a bit dry or sterile or neutral, whatever you want to call it. Pop in some good input/driver and output tubes and things can become more engaging - really depends on the circuit, transformers, the amp designer, etc.  :) 
rooze's avatar
rooze OP
636 posts
 

Thanks for the comments above.

I probably wasn’t making my point very clear in my OP. I said “romance,” “warmth,” etc, as those are what I consider to be classic tube artifacts or colorations. These are positive attributes and mostly the reason for dealing with the additional “maintenance” requirements of owning tubes, IMO. 

I want more of a good thing, not less of it, yet I see a trend where modern tube gear is often voiced to sound more like SS gear.

Apologies if my linguistic skills and choice of adjectives are poor.

@atmasphere  - Thanks for the comment. You do make a distinction in your post between desirable and undesirable colorations, which I share. Obviously I’m not suggesting that having a component that sounds “bright and harsh” is a good thing.

As for recreating the experience of music sounding “real” in my room, I think I do pretty well with it, given the constraints of the obvious physics involved and the fact that I’m not extremely wealthy. I’m not sure why anything I said in my OP would be construed as my not having heard a good facsimile of the real thing in my own space. As an aside, I heard your pre/power gear in the Classic Audio Loudspeakers room at CAF 2019 and it was my favorite room at the show. I'd like to try some of your gear someday soon.

@dentdog  - I owned the Chardonnay for a couple of years and enjoyed my time with it. I think Mick finds a nice balance with how he voices his gear. I’ve been using the Allnic L-5000DHT for a while and would love to try the Supratek DHT, but the wait-time from Oz is a killer.

@verdantaudio - thanks for the info. I was looking at some of your posts about a week ago, following the trail on a used Art Audio Carissa, which somehow lead me to your listing on eBay for the Conductor and then to your website. I wanted to try AA gear when I ran a horn rig some years ago, particularly the Diavolo 300b and the PX25. I hadn’t realized AA make a good linestage, though.

Anyway, thanks again. Tubes rule, as the saying goes, particularly ones which are unashamedly tubes.

erik_squires
16,061 posts
 
I can't help but wonder about how much of this trend has happened due to the ubiquitous red Wima caps everywhere.

In my mind, the sound of a tube preamp or amp is in very large part due to signal and coupling caps.  I think I once called a tube preamp as a bunch of caps surrounded by circuits, and I more or less stand by that statement.

A good, very specific brand example is ARC. The ARC products I've gotten to hear over the last 5-6 years where very different sounding than the one's from 20 years ago. To my ears they were always a little sterile, bright and thin, while now they sound closer to Parasound.  Warm, more robust but not colorful.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,807 posts
 
I can't help but wonder about how much of this trend has happened due to the ubiquitous red Wima caps everywhere.
No, but coupling caps certain do bring their own issues to the table. That is why we employ a lot of direct-coupling, including at the outputs of both our amps and preamps. That makes them more transparent, but doesn't make them more 'solid state'.
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