How Do You Learn?

We learn music in different areas of the brain than other language skills.  Do we therefore learn to hear differences in the reproduction of musical sounds in a similar way?  I have no idea.  This is also different from what the OP intended, but a lot more interesting.

Indeed, it is so interesting I started not one, not two, but THREE threads trying to discuss this very topic! Two of them were trashed by the usual know-nothings so fast and thoroughly I had them removed. The third I had to close but left up since it had managed to accumulate information some might find useful.  

Among the many mysteries of learning to listen, there are THREE TIMES as many ear cells devoted to detecting frequencies ABOVE AND BEYOND our so-called audible limit (20kHz) and that is just for starters.    

Functional MRI shows we do process music and language in different areas. What I find most fascinating, why I started the discussions, there are many aspects of sounds we do not seem capable of hearing without the language to describe them.    

Which comes first, the words or the hearing? I know from experience I was unable to hear any difference between various DACs and CDP until after I read Harley's book (see above) and learned some of these terms. Then slowly, gradually, I began to become aware of some of these same sonic attributes I was hearing.    

Attack, body or sustain, decay. Resolution, grainy or liquid. Timbre. And a lot more. All these are there with every sound, be it cymbal or guitar string. At some point it hit me, the words became associated with the sounds, and from that point on they became increasingly easy to identify. Before this happened all I could say was one sounds a little better. But I couldn't say why, couldn't even be sure. That all changed and now it is easy, both to hear and almost always the differences are also easy to describe. It is more a question of how much time do we have and how much detail do you want? Where before it was just, "better, sort of."   

Pretty sure I know how this happens. How we learn. It is like I said before, repetition literally re-wires the brain. New neural connections are made. Like learning to drive a car or golf ball it doesn't "just happen". Nobody ever learned to hit home runs by just swinging the bat a lot. The usual advice people give to just listen a lot, while better than nothing just ain't gonna do it. You need to be actively listening, actively thinking about what you are hearing, not just comparing one thing with another but thinking about how what you are hearing aligns with terms like liquid/grainy, extended/rolled off, recessed/forward, etc.    

In other words I think how we learn audio is no different than how we learn other skills like rock climbing, performance driving, etc. We don't just go play a lot of tennis, we read books, watch the pro's, get a coach to learn how to swing the racquet, and then practice, practice, practice. But it does no good to practice the wrong technique. Bad habits are harder to unlearn than good ones are to learn. So the learning how to do it right part has to come first.

Well, sorry mc, i must of missed your previous threads.  At any rate, I think there must be some differences between how people learn a motor skill and how they assimilate music.  Many people will lose previously acquired motor skills (my 93 year old mother, who lives in another state but with who i talk with every morning, has frequently told me that she can't figure out how to get dressed).  We call these motor apraxias, but as the examples cited earlier there has to be an awful lot of brain deterioration before the ability to recognize and make music occurs.  I do think the skills that are acquired at a very young age, such as music, are more durable than those created during the teens and adulthood.  However, I think that your basic points are correct, that the brain, and the hearing apparatus, has a lot of redundant capacity, and that capacity can be retrained and utilized

Good posts thanks millercarbon...

Indeed we know that it is impossible to perceive "clearly" something, even to perceive it at all, without any name or concept about it...For example the fist Aztecs "perceiving" Cortès boats dont perrceive boats at  

Learning is always a 2 ways speech/mind gesture toward a body gesture in some living space... And also a body gesture reaction to a speech/mind gesture...




«Reading this i dont know anymore what a gesture is»-Groucho Marx 🤓

«Hearing is a gesture even before becoming the act of listening »-Anonymus Smith

«Your body speak well before your throat »-Anonymus Sioux chief

«Silence could be a gesture brother »- Harpo Marx

«The dogs are not barking»-Sherlock Holmes

Interesting conversation. Having words to describe attributes is critical. One could come up with them yourselves… but I am guessing learning would be an order of magnitude or several orders of magnitude slower.

There are certain people… good at being on the cutting edge of stuff, who know how to differentiate and categorize stuff… then organize it all, create a vocabulary, and communicate to others… thinking Darwin… Einstein. The miracle of humans is the ability to learn from others very very rapidly. Think you can learn the lessons of Darwin’s lifetime in a short time.

I was embedded in one of the centers of innovation when the basics of plate tectonics was being worked out in the 1970’s at the University of Oregon. It was a frenzy of ideas, new terminology, old terms being thrown out… it was like being a washing machine. But as I was able to match ideas to all the terms thrown around, piece by piece a coherent picture developed… a coherent self consistent global view. It was so intoxicating.


The same true in audio. I listened, read, listened, read thought and slowly a global picture of all the sound characteristics, components, and relationships developed. Not having words leaves you mind grasping for something amorphous… can’t put your finger on it.

I was a French Bordeaux fanatic when young… but got busy. I just recently decided to really learn wines. I have read several books, I got a professional set of 88 auromas, and have been systematically sampling and describing wines. It has been incredible as my sniffing and tasting descriptions have gone from a “a bit sweet”, to “rich plum with a mild blackberry overtones”… etc. my perception has gone from vague to very particular and quickly and clearly discernible details. It is as if being nearly blind and step by step having better and better glasses bring the world into focus. I ride my bike and notice the scent of flowers, wet maple leaves. Using your senses, focusing on it, and assigning words is critical. And you advancement can be phenomenal.


Well, pardon me I need to check out the bouquet of this 2018 Chateau La Tonnelle! This also can be intoxicating.

Indeed we know that it is impossible to perceive "clearly" something, even to perceive it at all, without any name or concept about it...For example the fist Aztecs "perceiving" Cortès boats dont perrceive boats at  

Beauty. Got another one. Check this out.  

Carl Sagan recounts in his book The Dragon's of Eden how he asked his son at a very early age what is the first thing you can remember? And he said, "It was red, and I was very cold." His son had been born by c-section. So that was Carl. Then there's me.

As a little kid growing up, and I mean like couple years old, I had this recurring dream or vision, or memory, don't even know what to call it. The most fascinating sparkly gleaming lights shining, sometimes waving, with the marvelous sense of floating weightless and even better, a deep sense of Oneness. Don't know what else to call it. This memory/feeling would come and go and every time made me so happy, joyous, just the best feeling ever. Whatever it was. Back then, for some reason or other, I wondered about this more than anything else. What was it???    

Then one day my parents have friends over and I hear my dad, he loved to brag about me all the time, his first born son and all that. He is telling his friend how he didn't want me to be afraid of the water. So he took me to the pool when I was still a little baby. Had me floating in the water. How I was loving it, happy as a little clam, kept my eyes open even when he let me go under the water.  

Eureka! That was it! The lights, the floating, that was it!  

Best I can figure, this early memory was formed at a time when I was so young and unformed there was no way of making any kind of sense out of it. But it made such an impression it endured nonetheless. Until I knew enough to understand, and then wow, all at once it did make sense.  

Just as with the Aztec's the experience itself is not enough. We need information to understand, or else it is all meaningless shifting patterns of light. Or sound.