What is your take on high efficient speakers vs. low efficient speakers?

@phusis wrote: 

The EV horns of mine both have a diffraction slot and sharp edges at the mouth area, and so may set the alarms ringing in many a horn-audiophiles’ head, but they actually sound very smooth after being properly implemented with mentioned DSP filter-actions above.

Good phrase - "alarms ringing" since that's what the sharp edges cause worry of - ringing. I get the impression from my listening that the ringing back to the throat is generally fast enough that it doesn't cause the kinds of issues that I thought - peaky, ear piercing response types of sounds, although perhaps it can if the horn is big enough. I've heard some of the really big diffraction horns bothered people in the past but it could be they just weren't well equalized. So I think I agree with you that properly equalized diffraction throat horns can still sound quite smooth and natural, although some imaging and detail might be obscured. The better high frequency dispersion may be more than worth it in many scenarios. 

I always thought it was slots or discontinuities in the THROAT of a horn that could often cause a “spitty” or sibilant sound compared to an identical horn with a smooth throat…

@johnk wrote:

I prefer high efficiency but I don’t undersize my systems so I get bass into the 20-30hz range on most systems. I find higher eff designs to have a more realistic sound quality if done right. But many are too compromised in size. But sadly so are most of the loudspeakers offered today. Shipping costs and material costs all lead to smaller and smaller designs. I get 1 tear in my eye at audio shops it’s all too small.

My sentiment exactly!

Also, per the comments above regarding horn speakers not imaging, my JBL hybrid horn speakers image well. The JBLs have an efficiency of 2.7% they were manufactured in 1981. Happy imaging! 😎

Mike

I've had many fine speakers over the years & while there are no hard & fast rules regarding music reproduction, I think that generally high efficiency speakers sound more like live music than lower ones. Its not just a simple matter of more watts to compensate for lower efficiency. The dynamics & transient response for myself are what differentiate good sounding "hifi" systems to ones that actually can sound like live music. I've heard a few, very expensive lower efficiency speakers driven by very expensive heroic, 100 lb. + , 2 + foot long amps that can do this but you can buy one very nice, very fast Ferrari or McLaren for that kind of money (w/ a decent sounding stereo system...) of two or three pretty nice German, decked out sedans (also w/ good sound systems -  for a car).  Crazy $$ for a few lucky folks.

Of course, as others mentioned to get good bass that can play loudly & high efficiency, he need to have a large speaker w/ a large woofer or two which can also be somewhat pricey. Along w/ that can come some limitations at the frequency extremes & coloration, especially from some horn loaded speakers. I think there is a trend today to connect multiple smaller woofers in parallel to gain efficiency at the expense of reasonable impedance loads which can cause undue strain on less than very good amps & thus potential distortion. 

I found & now own what I consider to be an excellent balance between all these factors, the Volti Audio Rivals. They're made in TN,  "reasonably "priced (about $15K), substantial but not crazy large & sound excellent. They're horn loaded midrange & tweeter w/ a 15" paper cone ported woofer. They're very dynamic, big sound but also quick & detailed, image well w/ very solid bass although not "bat frequency extended" on the high end. They can fill a large room w/ very good sound like few other speakers can at anywhere near their price range. With a good tube amp, they sound like live music & are tons of fun!

@audiokinesis wrote:

[...]

All of the above speculative explanations are unlikely, perhaps even highly unlikely, which brings me back around to "I don’t know".

Sorry about that!

Duke

No need to be sorry - on the contrary, thanks for taking the time to investigate on the matter! And to come up with some theories that could explain why no EQ-gain in the upper octaves with my CD horns/comp. drivers is necessary. I’ve had several people (audiophiles most of them) listen to my setup, and none of them have addressed (even when eventually asked) a lacking HF performance/extension or a possible frequency imbalance, though I can say for my own part that the very smidgen of upper bat territory range they don’t cover, and I’m fine with that.

@asctim wrote:

Good phrase - "alarms ringing" since that’s what the sharp edges cause worry of - ringing. I get the impression from my listening that the ringing back to the throat is generally fast enough that it doesn’t cause the kinds of issues that I thought - peaky, ear piercing response types of sounds, although perhaps it can if the horn is big enough. I’ve heard some of the really big diffraction horns bothered people in the past but it could be they just weren’t well equalized. So I think I agree with you that properly equalized diffraction throat horns can still sound quite smooth and natural, although some imaging and detail might be obscured. The better high frequency dispersion may be more than worth it in many scenarios.

Thanks for your insights. Many factors certainly come into play on how to properly assess a given horn/comp. driver combo, and in this case a Constant Directivity horn with a diffraction slot and relatively sharp (i.e.: not large diameter rounded) mouth edges. Some people on principle just shy away from such a horn type, which is a shame being there are several examples of them sounding very, very good. It’s mostly about the implementation, size is a factor (i.e.: the bigger ones, many things being equal, sound less like horns and often downright awesome), and the intended usage. You could be right on details/imaging being slightly obscured here, but my advice would be for people to listen first and then "judge;" much of which is passed around on the supposed deficiencies in this regard is really just speculation and assumptions, or certainly could stand the test of being evaluated more closely for the relevance and degree of such speculated deficiencies.

@johnnycamp5 wrote:

I always thought it was slots or discontinuities in the THROAT of a horn that could often cause a “spitty” or sibilant sound compared to an identical horn with a smooth throat…

Relative to the specific horn in question these "spitty" effects, if they do occur, would normally only do so at prodigious SPL’s. The levels where this might happen is close to bonkers, with my own EV horns (and only assuming the effect will happen, if it even will) this would be somewhat past 120dB’s, far exceeding what most sane individuals would expose themselves to.