2. digital
  3. 190027-170711

why expensive streamers

@soix and others

I am unclear about the effect on sound of streamers (prior to getting to the dac). Audio (even hi-res) has so little information content relative to the mega and giga bit communication and processing speeds (bandwidth, BW) and cheap buffering supported by modern electronics that it seems that any relatively cheap piece of electronics would never lose an audio bit. 

Here is why. Because of the huge amount of BW relative to the BW needs of audio, you can send the same audio chunk 100 times and use a bit checking algorithm (they call this "check sum") to make sure just one of these sets is correct. With this approach you would be assured that the correct bits would be transfered. This high accuracy rate would mean perfect audio bit transfer. 

What am I missing? Why are people spending 1000's on streamers?

thx

 

128x128delmatae
mclinnguy's avatar
mclinnguy
440 posts
 

In summary, the science, my experience, and actual measurements tell me the same thing.  A competent streamer should not be a source of audible noise; I am convinced that any differences we hear are either due to differences in signal processing (e.g., reclocking, up sampling, etc.), our DACs, or, yes, confirmation bias. 

 

@mdalton

you have tube gear, what does your science say about the sound profiles in different tubes? Care to show us some microphonic measurements?

mdalton's avatar
mdalton
458 posts
 

@mgrif104 

I’m astonished that you can point to jitter at the same time that it’s been demonstrated that jitter is virtually nonexistent in any decent streamer.  How can it be that these manufacturers have discovered a secret in removing jitter, noise (and fairy dust?) without showing us how to measure this new, exciting branch of science?  Why don’t you ask them to prove it?  Why don’t they volunteer this information that would prove their brilliance? It’s all mystifying to me. 

mdalton's avatar
mdalton
458 posts
 

@mclinnguy 

hah, nice try! but let’s stay on topic.

mashif
240 posts
 

Jitter WAS an issue in early digital audio that has been solved. It was primarily an issue with digital recordings where things have to happen in real time. In reproduction, buffering allows the time for error correction. Any serious manufacturer can use off the shelf components to make jitter a non issue. 

That being said, every piece of electronics will sound different for other reasons. Circuit design, components, quality control, all can make streamers sound different from each other. Whether different is better is an opinion. We all have one.

mgrif104
344 posts
 

@mdalton 

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Perhaps it’s not jitter that makes the difference I’m hearing, but, a difference (for the better) exists. And, it’s been a worthwhile pursuit for me and many others. Nevertheless, I would also politely suggest that the notion that jitter is virtually nonexistent in any decent streamer is incorrect. You might argue if it’s audible - but jitter exists and the benefits of better clocks in both streamers and in DACs, or in outboard clocks - is plainly audible. Plainly. The only thing these better clocks are doing is reducing that timing error - jitter. 

So - we disagree. No harm.  My best to you. Moving on.

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