Jazz for aficionados

I went to hear Kurt Elling sing last year. He uses his voice as a jazz instrument. I knew it was true jazz because my wife couldn't stand it.

@audio-b-dog 

I think the misunderstanding here lies in the term "interpretation". Because it could conceivably apply to such a wide range of scenarios, from very subtle shifts to quite dramatic re-conceptualizations/re-harmonizations, it’s fairly useless. Perhaps the term "invention" might better point to what Jazz improvisers do that goes beyond "interpretation". 

If you define Jazz vocal improvisation so narrowly as to only include scatting, then you and I have quite different perspectives. 

What a shame that your wife doesn’t share your enjoyment of Jazz. I’m very lucky; my wife and I have very similar aesthetic tastes across the board. Using one’s voice as an instrument is certainly one aspect of Jazz singing. I don’t believe Sinatra could accurately be described in such terms but no doubt, some would disagree. 

stuartk, I don't define jazz vocals as scatting. Billy Holiday does not scat on the records I have by her.

I think where we're diverging is that I like to be lost. I like to pose questions I can't answer, and I don't feel the need to know the answer.

I spent 10 years writing a novel about a Holocaust survivor who had been an assassin and could no longer love. I was in uncharted territory (this was about twenty years ago) and loved being there. I like research. I am now working on a book asking a question which I don't think anyone else has ever asked, and I have no definitive answer. I feel like an explorer.

I have no answer about jazz, either. I just wanted to hear what other people thought. And apparently other people have more definite ideas than I do. So far, I'm kind of taking from all this that perhaps thinking in musical genres is not such a great thing. 

I received my copy of of Antonio Jobim's bossa nova album Wave the other day from discogs. The 1967 Pitman pressing in pretty good condition sonically and materially. Amazingly surprised by just how rich and deep the sound stages on this album musicians are pinpointed across the stage with both depth and breadth and the musicianship and songs are superb. Someone over on Reddit recommended this album so I decided to buy it sound unheard and I'm very happy I did!

About jazz...

I read a decade ago a story of a black musician who decided to  go back to Africa to study music there...

He encountered a master and discussing with him, the master said listening samplings of western music and jazz, this "does not roll"...

"this does not roll either"....Etc...

I am sorry to be unable to retrieve the source of this story on the net....

But think  now about a deep observation of Miles Davis which stayed in my mind saying most white musicians "lag behind the beat"and put it next to this African master who claimed most American music jazz or classic "does not roll"....

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mLmMQ5vd_Jw?feature=share

What does it means ?

It means because of the tradition of written music in the West, musicians  trained with written music often  "lag behind the beat" and their music often  "do not roll"...

A precision: the greatest book on acoustics i ever read was written by A nigerian acoustician, a pure genius, whose doctorate was refused in London but accepted  at Sorbonne Paris... I purchase his book and it change my understanding of sound in relation with music completely. His books title is "sounds source" 500 pages. Akpan J. Essien is a genius and a master of the Yoruba speaking drum which was the basis of his doctorate thesis...

In my opinion recent research in acoustics confirmed he was right in his criticism of 2,000 years of Acoustic beginning with Pythagoras...

Music is not  just  wave in the air, it is the information of the vibrating sound source qualias,  ("Timbre" mystery )  irreducible to  linear Fourier mappings, because created by the ears/brain/gesturing body and flowing in his own non linear time domain....

Then Jazz or any music "roll" and flow without "lagging behind the beat" if it is synchronized directly with the playing body and expressing something communicated by the vibrating sound source...

https://www.amazon.ca/Sound-Sources-Origin-Auditory-Sensations/dp/1913289540

Here yoruba talking drums to illustrate what kind of music roll and did not lag behind a  given beat but emerge with it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOg4xIiulw&t=1078s

Now i thought few years ago about Furtwangler the genius of Classical orchestra as  described by  Russian Maestro  Gergiev and Ansermet the french genius as  transcendent  in his understanding of musical time...

Here too with Furtwangler in Bruckner, Beethoven Schumann miraculously, the music dont goes behind a prescribed  external time and beat but emerge with a time of his own, a time purely musical which  no metronomic writings can catch... Furtwangler music "roll" and dont " lag behind the beat"...Gergiev analysed  Furtwangler genius and i think he was right on the spot...

Especially if we compared with Toscanini, which is surely a great maestro but in my opinion a lesser one, because he impose to the music an external timing of his own without like Furtwangler letting the music spoke as the Yoruba drums spoke too only rolling ...

Yoruba masters :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4GXD-7G6T8

 These Yoruba drums roll, and create meanings as rythms gesture with no lagging behind the beat... Furtwangler directing the Schuman 4Th  symphony, one of the greatest  interpretation i ever listened to do the same... It roll....

 Furtwangler Schumann 4 th (the greatest Classical music interpretation i ever heard):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk8AtH0t2BU