TOTALLY CONFUSED about analog

Collecting/cleaning vinyl is fun! wanna pay $16 for a CD when you can get better sound from a free or 25 cent LP.Cant get new releases on vinyl? ha! too many to even try to list are avaliable on vinyl.Many times a few dollars cheaper than the CD version.Who spends lots of time 'fussing' with a turntable? Not me! A few minutes to set it up and thats it.If ya want to tweak your table,fine.Tweaking is a big part of this hobby and isnt exclusive just with turntables.Surface noise with vinyl? Sure,if you have an abused copy.If I get a copy of a LP that isnt quiet enough I just find a better copy.Most of my LP's are as quiet as a CD.If there is a bit of surface noise its only audible between tracks.I only recently bought a decent CDP.I listen to CD's much more now than I have in the past.When I do my most serious listening though vinyl is the choice I make.As far as what turntable to buy.Get the best used table you can afford.I wont recommend any.A used table/arm for around $1000 and new cartridge for around $500 will get you 70-80% of what the best analog set up can offer.Keep asking questions,do research and listen to tables if you can.You will make the right decision in time.Be cool and dont hurry.

Ken-

What is confusing you, I think, are these references to all the tweaks, modifications, specifications and opinions. A few random thoughts- 1) Are all these guys that are spending time and $$$$$ modifying their gear THAT much smarter about such things AND have more/better test equipment, education and experience than the engineer that designed it to start with? 2) Does all of that time and $$$$ spent for modification really qualify as "no fussing"? 3) Comparing a $700 table to a $3000 table is futile. 4) There are usually multiple ways to solve any problem, but first there needs to be a problem. 5) When I first got involved with audio, I tried very hard to listen to a spec, but never heard one. 6) CDP makers brag about their players getting closer to sounding like analog, but when was the last time you heard a turntable maker brag about their product sounding like a CD?

Develop a short list of good used unmodified moderate-priced belt drive tables and reasonably good used high-output MC to get started. Most of them have already been mentioned above. Don't get wrapped around the axle about trying to achieve audio nirvana with $600 'cause it's not going to happen no matter what you get. But at least you'll get an idea what direction you want to go to get there.

Regards
Jim

Sometimes Im surprised at the end of the record because I forgot I was listening to LP not CD. Not all LPs are that quiet, but if they sound like bacon they go to the trash. The fact is most CD reissues I have dont sound as good as the original vinyl, and a lot of them are awful. VPI tables are a good place to start with an extensive ( and pretty simple) upgrade path.

i dunno whether or not a properly set-up technics 1200 is *better* than your typical rega, but i'd say it's at least on the same playing field.

regardless of how much $$$ ya end up spending, be sure to purchase a used ' table: *so* much more bang-for-buck, especially if you're patient. on the low-end (pricewise), there's persently a cj walker cj55 w/a decent arm for something like $250. i owned one of these, & it's a very nice 'table - at least as nice as the rega p3. i tweeked it w/delrin armboard, all-corian suspension which i made for it, & some merril springs to deal w/the extra weight, & it got even better. of course, it's not as nice as my present oracle delphi, but again, buying used was a big plus - i got a great 'table, updated to mk-v specs w/exception of motor, w/a decent arm (that i didn't need) for $1250, & this included shipping and buying a brand-new $60 box, cuz the seller refused to ship w/o it... i have seen other similar-quality used 'tables at similar prices.

oh, & as far as digital goes, well i guess you can spend thousands, but it won't approach the goodness of analog.

doug s.

Ok, I haven't read all the threads here, but I want to ask why you want to get in to high end vinyl?

A) If you already have a vinyl collection, proceed.

B) If you have a curiosity about the vinyl "buzz" proceed with caution.

C) If you are a audio hobbyist who wants something to do, proceed.

But if you are starting purely from scratch (no pun) and you want better sound, I would recommend spending that money on a CD upgrade, start buying dual layer CD's, and get a SACD player when you can afford it.

That said, know that I am 60% vinyl. (VPI 16.5 record cleaner, Oracle Delphi MkIII, Premier FT-4, Grado Sonata, ARC SP9 MkII, Bryston, Magnaplanar 2.7)

I enjoy vinyl because I have a lot of it with historic and sentimental value. I buy new and used vinyl, and, Yes when I A/B vinyl to CD I find that there is more music there. But I could not recommend to anyone to start a vinyl collection now without some serious motivation.

Unless you do SERIOUS listening, or have the musical values that vinyl lends itself to, wait out the new hi-res formats.

Now, if you have a collection to play. (A) go for your higher dollar solution. Get a VPI HW-19 JR, and upgrade it as necessary. IF your motivation is (B) get a used rega or MMF, and see how you like it. Or if you are a 'phile who wants a new and ongoing project (C) I'd shop audiogon for a higher end unit used. (always your best buy, but not always your best choice w/ dealer support and etc. considered.}

Vinyl is more than sound, it is a degree of dedication and a state of mind. And..... CD's don't have to sound that bad.