Do 1st Order XO's produce a smaller

Single driver systems are also not immune to issues...one is asking alot of a driver to carry the full frequency load...which is why many single driver systems are rolled off on the top and have no bass...and have severe "beaming" problems...however...they are improving...and have some benefits:high efficiency being one....

This begs the question, if you are outside the sweet spot which sounds better, a 4th order x-over or 1st. 4th order makes driver / room interaction negigible so I would think 1st would only be better in the sweet spot.

Cdc - I think you may be on to something. A few years ago when I was auditioning speakers I visited a B&W dealer and was amazed at how narrow the sweet spot was for virtually all their speakers except the most expensive Nautalus series. The dealer switched out CD players and altered the position of the speakers and still if I moved my head 10 inches in either direction I was off-axis. Call me crazy, but I just can't imagine anyone enjoying that type of experience at home.

If 360 degree dispersion designs can create a wide and deep soundstage, generate compelling dynamics and the transparency and realism that audiophiles crave then why aren't more people buying into this design theory. Gallo's Ref. III's and Ohm's Walsh series are both getting good press reviews, but I don't see a lot of posters on this board or others flocking to those designs. The Ohm Walsh series is very intriguing, but IMO they aren't the least bit aesthetically pleasing. The Gallo's look very cool, but can they really deliver?

Dynamic vs. Passive, Stats vs. Planars vs. Horns et. al. When are we going to get a speaker that fills a room with the type of sound that blows us away and doesn't cost the same as a Mercedes? Why buy a $8K pair of speakers that require one to sit at the exact spot to recieve the full measure of the design? It's all so confusing.

Dawgbyte, yeah first order systems generally have a small sweet spot where they are in absolute phase. My Europa's are no different. Having said that, at least they HAVE one. Second, fourth order designs don't. I'll take that small sweet spot over NO sweet spot anyday. Besides, even when two rooms removed from the Europa's, they still sound remarkably coherant. I asked Roy from GMA about this and he said since the speakers are time/phase aligned, sound that hits the wall and reflects into the room is more coherent than other order crossovers. There is no perfect speaker, but to these ears, which were recently tested to be better than textbook, 1st order is closer to the musical truth.

A very interesting thread here. Regarding the 360 degree dispersion speaker types....There is a gentlemen in Toronto Canada, that makes a modern version of the original Hegeman 1a. His name is Don Morrison and I believe the man now owns the patent rights to the original Hegeman design. The original model-1 was truly remarkable at recreating a holographic soundscape, in proper scale, akin to a live instrument or live voice in room.I was also a big fan of the original Ohm-F speaker of the 70's, mainly because of it's superb imaging and tremendous bass speed.Unfortunately,one needed some serious horsepower and current to make the damned things really sing...and most amps from that era with big power reserves were downright dreadful sounding devices. I would love to hear a mint pair of original Ohm f's mated to some of the terrific sounding high powered amps of today. The original Hegeman 1a was a single hand-made aluminum driver firing straight up in a box with a lens type piece on the top just above the tweeter. The speaker acted as a true point source signal launch, an incredible image that was truly 3 dimensional from anywhere in the room. His newest speaker...the 1.7 [I think?]is basically the same speaker design in a modern computer designed cabinet that is braced and somewhat larger than the original. Like the original model one.... quarter wave tuning tunnels are employed with the same machine spun aluminum cone. The tweeter is now a modern Seas [magnesium I think?]with a modified lens above it. From what I have heard... it can play to much higher SPL's and has true 30 hz bass extension.The original Hegeman-1 had great and tuneful bass considering it's small and flimsy cabinet. They are all hand made by Don himself. Most true point source type speakers all seem to posses that inate ability to disappear in the room regardless of whether it is a planar,electrostatic panel or a cone. Unfortunately...most planar type point sources[e-stats and ribbons] are rather limited in dispersion both horizontally and vertically, therefore.... become very much a sweet spot challenged speaker. That said... when in that right spot, they can make for a mesmerizing illusion to be sure. I think it is really terrific that many new speaker designers have recognized and embraced the magic of a true point reproducer for music and voice, Kudos to the horn loaded designers working with modern high tech cones and cabinet designs,especially given their high efficiency and amplification reqirements. Have you ever heard a classic Tannoy 15 inch [dual concentric] speaker in a good box, powered with top shelf modern electronics? It becomes very obvious why vintage Tannoys enjoy the largest cult following of any speaker type ever made. Hell...15 inch Tannoy Gold,Red,or Silver drivers alone, command more money than many established high end speakers of today! Do you think these people are just collectors of antiques or nostagia? Think again! When these drivers are properly tuned in good cabinets and with good crossovers... they possess that abilty to diasappear in the room, whereby they image in proper scale and tone from most of the room boundaries whether sitting,standing, or lying down on the couch.Remember the late great Gizmo?He was a man of true vision and very much committed to the truest reproduction of the recorded arts. Hopefully....we will see much more modern "point source" speaker designers in the near future. And always remember...the world would be a very, very sad place without music!