I can pretty much understand where the pro and not so pro ASR comments are coming from. It's the age old debate as to whether cool detailed neutrality is preferable to a maybe more colourful but equally vibrant sound.
My Def 4s are due to be ready in July, and having taken on a highly neutral and transparent tt/arm (see my thread on the analog forum 'Trans Fi Audio Salvation direct rim drive turntable') I'm on the hunt for a neutral cartridge.
The market for an upgraded amp is an interesting one, currently I run Hovland HP200 tube pre/Radia ss pow, which has served me well with the Def 2s. I have identified three ways to go if Def 4s indicate need for improvement, all for about the same price as the Def 4s. These are: the ASR Emitter 2, Dave Berning Z-OTL pre/pow, and the Audion pre or Silvercore TVC pre/Audion Silver Dream pow. My only issue with the ASR as a complement to the Def 4s is that the amps are overpowerful at 250w/ch feeding 101+dB efficient speakers, which by design only need the first 15-30W on tap. Doesn't this leave a possible power/impedance mismatch between the ASR and the Def 4s, showing neither to their best advantage? |
Keith, that makes sense. I think the secret sauce with ASR involves the battery powered input stage. Glory and others can chime in on how it sounds with the Zus.... |
Agear- I'm pretty much settled on tube right now. I've had Mcintosh and FirstWatt, so well aware of the best of SS type designs w/ Zu, which I'm sure ASR is in the same league as.
My room is a bit of a bear and eats bass, so that has led me to P/P amps in general--SET hasn't worked out in my room. |
Can anyone comment on the level of difficulty in setting up the Def 4 speakers? I was a Soul Superfly owner and lover and when positioned just right, they were pretty exceptional in my shared living room. As my needs for that room evolved (along with furniture layout) I had an extremely difficult time coaxing the potential from them and ultimately gave up trying, intending to re-visit Zu when I sell my condo and have a larger space.
I'm still in the same room, but the temptation of trying the Def 4s is strong... Any insight? |
By the way, I guess this would be a good a place as any to announce that I am the proud new owner of the Def 3. I've had them in my home for a few weeks now. Haven't had the chance to do much critical listening yet, but am loving what I hear so far.
They replaced my longtime (23 years) Klipshorns, do to an upcoming (downsize) retirement move. I was also running a sub with the Khorns, but there's no room for that in my new place either. So considering my 6 watt SET amp, and no room for a sub, I decided on the Def 3's |
Markpao,
Yes the Zu is amp 'friendly' but that does`nt mean all amps will sound equally good with them. I`d think the Def IV has enough resolving ability to sort out the attributes of individual amplifiers.
Keithr has tried a fair share of amps,so for the Quad II amp to stand out reflects on it`s sonic performance even though competing with more expensive amps.The Quad is a simple circuir-straight forward design with good implementation, Often the less complex components sound bwtter. |
Charles1dad ,
In this case you're probably correct. But In all fairness to the more expensive gear, the Zu Defs are very amp friendly speakers. They would sound great with just about anything driving them right? |
Glory,
It`s not just amplifiers, I`m referring to audio components in general. I don`t believe more money spent = better sound all the time.Developing a good home audio system requires thought,patience, careful matching and trial and error experience. Just simply buying more expensive components won`t always yield the better result,as Keithr has realized. I and I`m sure others have come to reconize this point. Spending more money certainly can result in improved performance,it just is`nt a guarantee.
Just a quick personal example, I`ve own a Symphonic Line amplifier and a 100 watt PP tube amp. Both were actually very good. My current amplifier is less expensive yet is much superior in sound,not even close.
Obviously we all have different experiences and conclusions with these subjective matters.If price and performance were that strongly related then simply buying the most costly gear you could afford would get the best sound. It does`nt work that way(not very often).To be clear I`m not dismissing the cost of better quality components,just saying it is`nt the only variable involved.
Regards, |
In the last few months, three Zu owners have converted from tubes to ASR favorable results. Keith, you should consider that as an option if the Quads don't float your boat long term. |
Dad,
What high $$$ amps have you heard to write such things? |
It`s no shock that the Quad II amp outperformed more expensive amplifiers. IMO there`s a relatively weak correlation between cost and performance with a lot of current 'high end' components. The adage "you get what you pay for" has more than a few exceptons in this genre.I`m glad you trust your ears.
Regards, |
After all my trials and tribulations with amps, I've settled on Quads II 40s. They have an excellent balance of dynamics, air, and tone.
They are also the most inexpensive pair of amps I've had in my system. Go figure. |
I can really second that, Glory. Contact by email with esp. Sean, but also Gerritt, always elicits helpful prompt replies. Even in these days of having to work for people's hard earned $s, such great relations really encourages positivity in sticking with this company. Sean esp. seems a really happy fellow, and I get nothing but excellent vibes in dealing with Zu. |
Although, with the frankly ludicrous prices being charged for the state of the art in loudspeakers, thank God for Zu Audio and their real world approach to performance/price ratio.
Well put Spirit. The Zu boys are a great group of guys that support their work like no other. |
Glory, i WAS in on the joke. However since so many in the audiophile community change their equipment as fast as they change their underwear, there may have been some truth in your statement.
Great to hear that you (and 213cobra/Gsm18439) believe these speakers are up there with those in the upper level of performers. Although, with the frankly ludicrous prices being charged for the state of the art in loudspeakers, thank God for Zu Audio and their real world approach to performance/price ratio. |
So glad the buzz on the Def 4s is uniformly positive. As I've said on this thread before, I've purchased sound unheard based purely on my experience of the 2s over the last few years.
A recent tt purchase has been really positive but aspects of it's spound have challenged poss lack of transparency in the 2s. I'm hoping the improved nano FRDs in the 4s are going to improve this side of audio reproduction. |
Boys and girls it was to be a Ha Ha momentt.
Zu Def speakers should retail at 20K as I have heard 20K speakers that sound broken compared to the Def. |
Like Phil (and unlike Glory's comment), I have nothing but positives to say about my Def 4s. . . now in their 8th month. The only downside is that I am now buying way too much music. |
Well if they have Glory, I've not seen any pairs for sale on A'gon, Ebay etc. I could have picked up a pair cheap, damn!
My guess is that they're so happy and engrossed by the 4s that they have no time to prise themselves from listening to them to post updated comments.
Maybe one day... |
Perfect. Def 4 is the single most convincing speaker of practical economics, amp requirements, size, and universality of room application I've encountered in 40 years of looking for gear in this realm.
It also fits perfectly with amplification decisions that have proven stable for seven years. I changed one preamp out of two systems to more closely complement the change from Def2 to Def4. And Def4's superior conveyance of digital listening sparked a new investigation of DACs and an imminent server configuration. Nothing but positives.
Phil |
They all sold their Def4 speakers and have moved on.
23 is still trying to figure out what is the correct amp to power his speakers. |
Hi everyone, Def 4s on track to be delivered to me in July/Aug. 213cobra and all others who've bedded in their 4s, how are they checking out after a few months of listening? |
Hi Germanboxers, any further comments on the 4s if they're opening up? Interesting that my 2s took about a fortnight before they gave of their best, your 4s seem to be taking a little longer. Hoping to have mine ready by early summer, will comment in due course. Regards to all |
Definition Mk IV's are in the house!! First listen (without a minute of burnin) showed great potential; however, they have a tightness that is not natural (burnin issue I assume?).
I had been doing a great deal of listening to my previous Mk1.9's lately as I tried several different amps (more on that later) so the differences between the speakers are REALLY obvious to me. Inner detail, microdynamics, macrodynamics, and top-to-bottom coherency are all improved upon in dramatic fashion compared to the 1.9's. The top treble, even in this unplayed state is more open and expansive.
I will say the sound quality is changing rapidly in the first few hours of play...not really better, however. Seems bass has gone AWOL (receded in level relative to rest of frequencies), the sound is punchier (they were punchy from the beginning so this is not necessarily "better"). All told, my impression is that these speakers need hours of play before they start revealing all that great inner detail and micro/macro dynamics in a natural way, rather than a punchy way. Anybody else notice this during the early hours of play? How long before they "relax" a bit?
I have them playing music at a moderate volume level and will continue to play them throughout the day and weekend straight. Does anyone have an informed opinion on whether playing the Purist Audio Burnin CD for extended periods will help hasten the burnin? |
From what I gather on comments here, The Radian supertweeter is sweeter and more extended than the rather rough and ready unit in previous Definition models (like my 2s). I'm really hoping it's going to integrate well with the FRDs and ease my current lack of high frequency satisfaction. |
Thanks so much Bufford. That is a good read on 6Moons and I do think that the Radian tweeter will be worth the wait for me. Zu is doing a very good job of investing in new technology and then quickly trickling down that technology into the lower end models for us on tighter budgets! I bet the new Druids will be a huge success. |
Morganc
As I stated earlier my time spent with the 3's was brief but the difference between them is immediately noticed imo.
With your ear sensitivity I think you would really prefer the radian tweeter in the 4's. It's really smooth. If they are not affordable the news of new models incorporating the radian tweeter are on there way. Check out the 6moons initial commentary on the Druid V. |
So has anyone actually heard the mk iii's? Some of us can't afford the mk IV's and we would love to hear any and all impressions or thoughts on this topic!
And btw, I noticed a very dramatic break in for the Omen Defs that I had previously. It took a good 300-400 hours for break in and then I noticed a gradual improvement for a good 6 months. This may be due to the fact that I listen at low volumes but I've heard the same from many other Zu owners. |
Thanks Phil. Actually, I've always found Zu products haven't required serious break-in, obviously several hours must be performed at the factory before they're delivered. This applies to the Zu Event phono cable I've bought recently: it sounded great out of the box, and has only improved a little in the intervening month of continual use.
When I bought my current Def2s in winter 2007, it was pretty cold, and it took a good month for the soundstage to widen as the drivers physically warmed to room temperature. Since I'm going to take ownership of the Def4s in the summer, temperature should be less of an issue.
Great to hear your Def4s sound so good so quickly, and continue to impress. |
>>Are they improving further as they open up?<<
Yes. But Def4 breaks in much more rapidly than Def2 did, with then a long tail of very gradual improvement. The interval from set-up to quality sound is quite brief.
Phil |
A little update to my order. Sean of Zu informs me he has an improved finish called Soft Touch, which purports to be, well, softer to the touch! That is, over their more standard Nextel. I'm likely to go for this in Cosmic Carbon.
Any further thoughts re ongoing experiences with the Def4s by owners who've had them for a while? Early adopters must find they're close to fully burnt in now.
Are they improving further as they open up? |
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Just paid 50% deposit to get Def4s' construction up and running, aiming for completion June/July.
Have decided on Cosmic Carbon finish.
I believe the Zu's will improve my luck, make me more attractive to women, help me be successful in the Stock Market, and improve my contentment levels listening to music.
Hope the last one is true, at least! |
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KeithR, have you experimented with 6SN7's in the Sophia's to eliminate the slight midrange glare? How are they sounding with the Def's?
Thanks |
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Ghostinthemachine - please contact simon@zuaudio.com with regard to auditioning Zu. |
Ghostinthemachine, I'm based in the UK, so my advice is to email Sean Casey at Zu direct. He is a stand up guy, always prompt and super enthusiastic with replies to enquiries.
For my part I have run Def2s since 2008, and have just paid deposit to get Def4s construction up and running.
I would urge you to find a way to audition the Def4s, the Zu sound is just such an involving way to enjoy your music. |
Bill Feil (the proprietor of Audiofeil) was very helpful when I bought my first pair of Zu Defs. However, you need to call him in advance. Good Luck. |
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I echo what Spirit says. While I have no experience with Zu's Canadian distributor, I have had years of experience with Sean and the rest of Zu; and they are a total class act. I first bought Def1.5s using the 60 day home trial period and have since upgraded to the Def2s and now the Def4s. Like you, I wanted to hear Zu speakers in a store first. However, the converse is that hearing speakers in a store does not tell you how they will sound at home. (I have certainly had the latter experience.) If you want to contact Zu, the best way is through their website: www.zuaudio.com
There are few dealers since Zu prefers to sell direct. However, one dealer "relatively" close to Toronto is near Buffalo:
AudioFeil International
9405 Meriul Lane
Clarence Center, NY 14032
USA
716-400-6177 |
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Ghostinthemachine, I can't comment on your experience since I'm not connected with Zu or their distributors, but if you haven't already bought alternative speakers do contact Sean at Zu and see what he can do. I believe they have run 60 day risk free home trials for many of their speakers in the past, and maybe this could be arranged for the Def4s.
It's a shame, since you're missing out on one of the most holistic experiences in music reproduction, which I am buying further into myself personally by purchasing the Def4s. Ironically enough, since you're not considering, I complete the transaction today. |
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where can I hear these in Ontario, Canada? |
If anybody gets a chance to hear the new First Watt SIT amps with their mk.4's, please let us know how it sounds? |
