Cable curmudgeon

word of the day,  sommeliers 

I love this forum. can't we just all get along. 

When I started out in this hobby, speaker wire was 18 ga. zipcord...16 ga. if you felt like a splurge.  Premium interconnects were Switchcraft.  Speaker terminals were screws with knurled nuts, and the Marantz 7, 8, and 9 were still around (but on their way out).  The "audiophile" bible was Edgar Vilchur's "Understanding High Fidelity".  The most revered recordings by Mercury (Living Presence), RCA (Living Stereo), and boutique labels like Vanguard and The Connoisseur Society were being made...using utterly pedestrian copper wires, vacuum tube recording electronics, and excellent musical judgement. Draw your own conclusions.

On a personal note...

I was in the room when Noel Lee came (personally) to the store I worked in to announce the coming of a new order...in which hanks of zipcord would no longer be given for free with the purchase of a pair of speakers, which was the practice at the time.  He spoke with evangelical fervor...and our buyer/owner listened and heard that the Word was Good...for the bottom line.  Disciples, copycats, and believers in alternate versions of the Word followed, and the old order was indeed overturned.

The profit motive cannot be ignored in this discussion.  I absolutely support the right of every audiophile to buy whatever they deem best for their listening preference.  But in the real world environment of audio retail most buyers are not hobbyists, are not skilled in discerning fine differences, and are often over-sold purely for profit.  

The OP makes two points I strongly agree with.  Musical fidelity is best, perhaps only, discernable based on acoustic instrument reproduction, and cables' contribution to overall system performance is of tertiary importance.  First is the room/speaker, second the amplification, then the in-between stuff.

New poster shows up, posts a nonsensical thread designed to create controversy, and then disappears. How many times are you folks gonna fall for this?

I can’t overlook the fact that precious few manufacturers that I know of bother to include anything more than basic well made cables with their equipment. If it really made a difference wouldn’t you want to add a $1000 power cable to you $10,000 amp to make sure your customers got the best out of it?

@bruce19 The reason higher-end manufacturers don’t include better power cables with their products is that the cables are very listener and system dependent, and most audiophiles either already have or will buy good aftermarket PCs that best meet their tastes/needs. Plus, including better PCs would significantly increase the price of the product, which is not consumer friendly if many are likely to replace the PC anyway.

Thank you so much for your observation. Your only intention seemed to be to put down @exflute for having ears that can perform well in a top orchestra but you allege does not perceive differences in the sound of cables that you allege (without any objective testing) to be able to perceive.

@clearthinker You continue to be absolutely clueless as to the actual point I was making, and I just feel sorry for you dude. And my only intention was not to put the OP down (although I admit that was a nice side benefit) but rather to explain why his inexperience in high-end audio does not put him in a position to make an uninformed claim like expensive cables are all “hype.” It’s certainly his right to have that opinion, but that he did so with overconfidence and arrogance was what prompted my more pointed comments.

And his argument about un-amplified music being different from a home audio system is wrongheaded and ridiculous. A home system’s job is to, as best as possible, recreate what the recording engineer intended and laid down on the master — PERIOD. Whether the music is live, dead, amplified, or un-amplified is completely irrelevant to the agnostic task of an audio system to accurately reproduce what it’s fed. If the OP had more experience he would recognize that better audio systems, given a good acoustic recording, can absolutely bring a live feel and experience to the home listening environment, but his closed-mindedness will likely prevent him from ever experiencing or realizing that. Ok, I’ve waisted enough time on you. Maybe someone more knowledgeable and experienced here will explain to you what my original post actually addressed in terms of the OP not being qualified to make definitive assertions regarding high-end audio as I’m not inclined to educate or deal with you any further. Peace out.

@exflute - You are correct, you did kick an ever-present hornet's nest.  Its all good when people share their personal experiences but things tend to go off the rails when people try and tell others what they should be hearing or make collective judgement decisions about the value of something.  Whether a cable, fuse, or tweak is "overpriced" is a subjective assessment that can only be made by the buyer with respect to their own experiences, system, and budget.    

I like to say that we all vote with our wallets - purchase and live with what makes you happy.  As some here have wisely said, the only person you need to satisfy is you.  I also agree with @baylinor that seeing a poster's virtual system allows me to have better perspective on their posted viewpoints.

I don't really understand the motivations of cable-deniers.  Are they trying to "save" everybody from pointlessly spending money?  Surely participants on this site can make up their own minds.  The one responsible thing to do is to urge everyone to buy from vendors who allow a home trial and return privileges.  Then they can make up their own minds.  If that's not it, then it must be because they want their personal opinion to win out.  What else could it be?

@artemus_5 :

Now its a food fight filled with newbies who are no more audiophile than my 7 yr old niece. But they know it all, like I did when I was 17-18.

This is 100% correct. Some general / common "treats" of such posters I have observed from almost all of them:

1 - They just joined Audiogon Forums recently. Sometimes as recent as the past few weeks

2 - Zero Feedback and Zero transactions in Audiogon

3 - No audio system listed under Audiogon Systems

artemus_5"All one has to do is to click the "report this" link at the bottom of every post and the mod will just delete it"

That is false, untrue, and not an accurate or fair representation of the moderators of this group who will delete posts for sound, valid, genuine reasons that reflect and respect the guidelines, rules, and policies of this group. As an overall and general observation it is those who complain about the group's moderators who are the source of most of the group's arguing, divisiveness, and insult and  I will out of respect to the moderators not name the group's users to whom I refer in a vague sense.

I gotta give an attaboy to @soix  for his 1st 2 posts anyway. Succinct *& to the point.

@teo_audio They have moderators and I have been told that they really look at the posts before deletion. But I know better just because of how things go down. All one has to do is to click the "report this" link at the bottom of every post and the mod will just delete it because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. I doubt they have any clue about how far downhill this forum has gone. This used to be among the absolute best forum. Now its a food fight filled with newbies who are no more audiophile than my 7 yr old niece. But they know it all, like I did when I was 17-18.

Long time ago Sterophile used to interview musicians about their audio systems. Some examples, John Lee Hooker with a Technics midi, Charlie Haden with Linn and Naim, John Lurie with entry Luxman integrated, Yamaha CD changer, double cassette deck and B&W entry bookshelf speakers.

Completely different approaches and involvement so being a musician does not automatically support the will for a better system.

I believe all the above have good experience with live sound.

bruce19: +1. Your post came in while I was writing mine; I wouldn't have bothered had I read yours first.

bruce is the Boss!

@bruce19 -

B.) I am not aware of cables being overly significant in other mission critical electronics such as in the medical field or aeronautics or telecommunications. There is a justification in all of these areas for a well built, properly specked wire, but none of the hocus pocus that only seems prevalent among us audio hobbyists. 

      Just another for-instance (click on, "Letter From NASA"):

                        https://homeaudio.analysis.plus/knowledge-base/

The poster listened to two sets of not very good cables and didn't find much difference. That's hardly surprising.

The experience of being a musician is not necessarily very beneficial in judging differences in sound reproduction - though it has many other benefits in terms of the appreciation of music.

The former is the reason we have recording engineers.

@rodman99999 

Do you think the more rational approach of the professional industry to cable could be something to do with the fact their professional experience and ears tell they they would be shafted?

At the level of some misguided audiophiles, can you really imagine a business, even this one, paying $2m or so, in scale, to re-cable their studio?

I knew the moment I saw the OP where this was going. The OP and the usual names who jumped on the opportunity. These folks are very predictable:

These “contrarians” who poo-poo the efficacy of expensive cables often appear in many other forums, threads, audio groups, questioning the merits of expensive audio products.  They are either disgruntled with their lot in life (e.g. a spouse who wears the proverbial pants, a wallet that squeaks so loud they hate to open it, etc.) or their skills of self-persuasion require constant exercising with selfish expectations of indulgence on our part. 

Not having a fact-based opinion because it's foreclosed by those circumstances, however, doesn't prevent them from expressing their frustration-based comments.

It's not about whether they can or cannot afford to pay more.  Hobbyists who operate within a prescribed budget are quite content with value-based high performance systems and work diligently to accomplish that end. They bear no grudge against those who chose to spend more. 

This is actually a very revealing thread; maybe it would benefit from better cables. The OP may be trolling, or may be just bewildered by audiophile fetishism; hard to tell. But the vitriol his post inspired is revealing. Those who calmly respond that it all depends on what you hear perhaps neglect to notice that we all advocate for our preferences here. If it were just up to each pair of ears to have their own preference, there’d be no need for, or interest in, this site! Thing is, we all believe that our ears, and our perceptions, are "right," so we try to convince others of this. But that’s really hard to do when it comes to crazy expensive cables and tweaks, since rarely do these have any objective criteria (i.e., science) on their side. The anger of some here with the OP suggest a great deal of defensiveness; if you really do hear a difference that’s worth big bucks to you, what difference could it possibly make to you that some stranger doesn’t? That would matter only if you don’t really believe yourself; that you have doubts about whether or not you’re deceiving yourself, and wasting your money.

Anyway, the response that "it’s all about the music" is also disingenuous. Come on, let’s be honest; it’s also about the gear, which is mostly what we discuss on this forum. And that’s fine; lots of technology is "beautiful" in its own right, and that beauty almost necessarily involves a mating of aesthetics and functionality—otherwise, it would be art, and not technology. We love gadgets; get over it, and don’t be ashamed to admit it.

The sports car analogy is dubious, too, IMO. Very few owners of high-performance cars know how to drive them to anywhere near their limits. The relevant comparison here is not between an experienced sedan driver and a sports car owner, it’s between a commuter and a competitor. How many of us sports car enthusiasts are competitors, or even aspire to be?

One more thing. I agree with the OP’s intuition that an audio system ought to reproduce the timbre of acoustic instruments as accurately as possible, and that a musician who is intimately familiar with the way real acoustic instruments sound is therefore in a good position to judge about that. Of course, most music is processed and amplified in various ways; indeed, very many "acoustic" events are as well, whether you know it or not. But that’s not the point. If "music" is what an audio system is supposed to reproduce, and not just "sound," then one needs to find a standard somewhere. Since you don’t know what an amplified rock band sounded like in the studio, or in concert, using unamplified acoustic instruments as that standard makes perfect sense as far as I can see. I suppose other familiar sounds—streams or waterfalls, trains, the human voice—can also serve that purpose. But I disagree with the OP’s claim that the individuation of instruments live is superior to what "two speakers" can rather magically accomplish in a good system set up properly in an acoustically sensitive room. My system can isolate individual performers in a smallish ensemble (say, the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra) with more locational specificity than I’ve ever experienced live. I can actually follow particular instrumental lines in a complex piece (say, a Haydn symphony) by "watching" the performer with my eyes closed than I’ve ever been able to do in a live performance. That acoustic hologram, or hallucination, is one of the principle thrills—and genuinely musical benefits—of high end audio.

@cleeds 

You are incorrect.  My post was not derogatory to Soix.  Unfortunately I don't keep copies of what I put up here.

It could and perhaps should have been unsulting to Soix.  Here is what he said about exviolin:

@So, what the hell are you even doing here trollsicle? Enjoy listening to your cheap-ass, crap stereo in total ignorance, attend only un-amplified acoustic performances, and while you’re at it feel free to not come back here. Your post and uninformed opinions are absolutely meaningless in the context of this site. Troll elsewhere.'

There, for those who want hints and tips on how to write bile.  That should have been taken down immediately.

I understand Soix is at present on his hands and knees trying to find differences in his cables.  I sure hope he tells us if he finds one; we shall all be enthralled  But if you ask him what music's he's listening to, he probably won't know.

@bruce19 -

Personally I am open to persuasion on the issue but am leaning to being skeptical for the following reasons, A.) cables get much less attention on the pro side whether it is the recording studio or the electric musician.

     OK then (just a for-instance):

                                     https://proaudio.analysis.plus/artists/

            What persuaded me to audition Big Silver Oval speaker cables:

                    https://analysis.plus/a-tribute-to-mark-markel/

@soix 

Thank you so much for your observation.  Your only intention seemed to be to put down @exflute  for having ears that can perform well in a top orchestra but you allege does not perceive differences in the sound of cables that you allege (without any objective testing) to be able to perceive.

@oliver_reid 

Thank you for your rational, cool, post which which I fully agree.  I doubt Soix would agree with much of it so that makes you 'clueless' if you care what Soix thinks.

@baylinor 

Thank you for your rational question.  The chief difference in my two posts you read is that one is a negative commentary on a music genre, which is a passive, non living person, and the other is a defence of an individual who was unnecessarily attack for holding an opinion and, as a top musician, may be sensitive.  Passive objects suffer no discomfort from such attacks, although those who identify with such an object might get their feelings hurt a bit if they suffer from under-confidence.  Whereas individuals can suffer damage.  The former are therefore fair game whereas the latter are worthy of respect and understanding.

I should be happy to post a photo of my system here if someone will tell me how to do it.  But many here something of it from my other posts.

Unusual elements are:

No streaming or similar.

CD and SACD players but rarely used.

Electrostatics speakers since 1978.  Currently Martin Logan CLS Anniversaries

Simon Yorke S10 and Aeroaarm, the latter a very rare rig, air bearing, less than 10 customer units, the most effective air bearing arm ever designed.  Awesome.

Five or six high end low output moving coils

van den Hul The Grail SE.

Other amps are Audio Research.

Cabling is mostly Siltech.

I don't tweak much and don't spend money on passive components, save the room which has been purpose built.

Anything at all for their war effort... for the ill thought out and anti-intelligence, anti-thinking, anti-invention and anti-’upward, forward’ crew.

They’ll do anything to press their opinions and incapacitates upon all others, out of FOMO on the capacities scale of human skill sets and intellect. I just warned y’all about this in another thread. They just don’t understand and they will commit to anything, anything at all (in the repetitive insistent intrinsically blind fondling of their own egos), to make their thoughts into your reality.

No choice, really, as one’s capacity to discern and think, imagine, extrapolate, etc... and thus hear... threatens their future - threatens it...simply via existing.

                       Where's 'The Ministry Of Truth' when you need it?

... cables are one of the best profit centers in hi-fi, perhaps that explains the ferocity which some defend them.

@clearthinker  What a shame, you merely told @soix that you disagreed with and did not call him derogatory names, insult his taste, or tell him to get off the site. as he did to the OP.

Soix: "So, what the hell are you even doing here trollsicle? Enjoy listening to your cheap-ass, crap stereo in total ignorance, attend only un-amplified acoustic performances, and while you’re at it feel free to not come back here. Your post and uninformed opinions are absolutely meaningless in the context of this site. Troll elsewhere."

We all know cables are one of the best profit centers in hi-fi, perhaps that explains the ferocity which some defend them. Personally I am open to persuasion on the issue but am leaning to being skeptical for the following reasons, A.) cables get much less attention on the pro side whether it is the recording studio or the electric musician. B.) I am not aware of cables being overly significant in other mission critical electronics such as in the medical field or aeronautics or telecommunications. There is a justification in all of these areas for a well built, properly specked wire, but none of the hocus pocus that only seems prevalent among us audio hobbyists.  C.)  I can't overlook the fact that precious few manufacturers that I know of bother to include anything more than basic well made cables with their equipment. If it really made a difference wouldn't you want to add a $1000 power cable to you $10,000 amp to make sure your customers got the best out of it? Especially if equipment matching is part of the equations as has been frequently claimed.  D.) Reviewers I respect, Darko, Lavorgna, have stated that on the scale of possible audio improvements cables are way, way down the list. Others have said that cables may change the sound but whether it is an improvement is an entirely subjective determination.

As for the issue of acoustic vs electric music for evaluating "fidelity", I just don't see how anything other than acoustic music could be the standard. Yes, there is the very real issue of acoustics and the importance of the recording venue AND the very real issue that symphonic orchestras just don't play in people's homes in real life, so there is some artificiality even in these cases. But for electronic and amplified music how can you talk about fidelity when no one ever really heard the original music till it was all mixed, dubbed  and mastered?

I think that it is closer to the truth in this hobby to say we all just pick the forms of distortion we prefer.

@teo_audio 

Are you advocating for censorship?

@oliver_reid 

+11

@clearthinker Apparently your thinking isn’t as clear as you think as you completely missed the core point of my post, or maybe you just can’t understand it. Either way your comments are meaningless to me as you’re obviously clueless, which the moderators obviously recognized and acted accordingly. 

The forum requires additional moderation, for the sake of the forum, it's members, and the continuance of the fundamental intent and direction desired in any business model associated with it.

As the contrary blind grind will NEVER give in. Not in this life - or the next.

It requires a permanent and enforced high bar, that may be required to be continually vigilant, for the foreseeable future.

Why the vitriol here? An experienced musician and lover of live music is simply doing his/her best to share an experience in a light-humored way. It's so hard to be PC on this board. 

So I'll try:  "My opinion is that Audioquest are full of s**t".

I am not saying they do not make good cables.  

But, if you are going adduce SCIENCE to explain the why it is worth spending $5k on a 1 meter mains cable which is attached to ~ 10m of ordinary 20 amp house wiring, attached to a circuit breaker, attached to miles of power utility cabling, to listen to music recorded in studio NOT using $5k per meter cabling to power its equipment, then:

• Scientific method should be readily accepted for evaluating the technical claims made. I.e., the specific scientific benefits quoted should be scientifically measurable vs. the cable that came in the box. I wonder why AQ never publish those results?
• Said explanation should be easily understood, and make sense. A cable that has “Zero Characteristic Impedance” (Not the same thing as Zero I\impedance, btw) is not going to help much attached to 10m of house wiring etc, etc.
• (Btw the impedance of a 3ft 12 gauge copper mains cable is ~ .05 Ohms  - which would drop your supply voltage, even drawing 10 amps, from 115v to 114.9v    —   http://www.electrician2.com/calculators/vd_calculator_initial.html )

My guess for AQ’s next trick? An audiophile circuit breaker to replace the one in your breaker box, with special filtering to prevent interference from other circuits in your home seeping into your system. Only $4,999!

@exflute, the quickest way to start a fight in an empty audiophile bar is to start talking about cables, connectors, etc. I've auditioned equivalently priced equipment & systems hooked up with multi-thousand dollar speaker cables, uber expensive connectors, audiophile-grade wall outlets & wiring, sound conditioners, etc., etc., etc. compared to considerably more modestly-priced cables & hook-ups in the hundreds of dollar range and, sometimes, less. Some speaker cables for systems in the unobtainium class actually do need to be bigger, more sophisticated and, by definition, are more costly to manufacture and, thus, cost more. However, for most of the systems that mere mortals can afford, like anything else in this world, if you think you can hear a difference and/or an improvement in sonic fidelity between ... say $12,000 speaker cables over $200 cables and you like that difference and think it's worth the extra cash, then go for it. Always trust your ears! The rest is marketing, advertising & merchandising.

It’s.. like... a cadre of strongly opposed street fighters moving from bar to bar, trying to wreak havoc on each other whenever and wherever they can, under some false pretense, at the drop of a hat ---while they trash establishment after establishment.

if they can’t get you through working in integrity, as that is clearly not working...

they’ll commit to a grinding down in repetitive lunacy.

Anything at all for their war effort... for the ill thought out and anti-intelligence, anti-thinking, anti-invention and anti-’upward, forward’ crew.

They’ll do anything to press their opinions and incapacitates upon all others, out of FOMO on the capacities scale of human skill sets and intellect. I just warned y’all about this in another thread. They just don’t understand and they will commit to anything, anything at all (in the repetitive insistent intrinsically blind fondling of their own egos), to make their thoughts into your reality.

No choice, really, as one’s capacity to discern and think, imagine, extrapolate, etc... and thus hear... threatens their future - threatens it...simply via existing.

~~~~~~~~~~~

One can explain to a person why they can't and are not hearing such things, and do it in the kindest most humane way possible... but every inch, word and moment of that explanation will be hated, hated to the very core, on the instinctual level. Human nature.

So they can't and won't listen, it's simply not possible..

@exflute your observation is valid and results of your comparison probably accurate and as such you MUST have a good ear to detect the variances between these two specific cables

Where you've stubbed your toe that has brought out some of the claws and venom of this forum, is both cables you tested are mediocre at best

larryi has summed it up very concisely and now the forum sommeliers are trying to correct your path

It's also not as simple as swapping one of the Monster cables for something higher up the food chain and connecting it to entry level electronics and expecting to hear the virtues of the upper end cable

Entry level electronics are not capable of  rendering the benefits of an upper end cable and thus you would likely report back that based on the cost you're disappointed in the performance of the cable as compared with the Monster.  What would be letting you down in this example would be the electronics not the cable

Do not let these responses wear you down, this is a great place to learn and the members cast a wide net of skills and opinions

Happy listening and enjoy the journey

@clearthinker 

Since seeing your posting of prog rock disdain on a recent discussion and now your strong support of this new two posts OP while insulting long time members, I would really be interested in seeing pictures of your system. You know, so we know who you really are in this audio endeavor. Because frankly, it's hard to take you seriously without it. At least for me.

Hi there @bruce19 and @onhwy61 

Crikey.  A moderator just removed my previous post.  What was wrong with it??

I guess Soix must know the moderators.

Hey Soix, hold up listening to those cables for a few minutes.  Have a break.

Sad day if he continues to publish this bile against @exflute 

@clearthinker +1

I too was amazed by the ferocity of the attacks and how quickly they degenerated into ad hominem attacks on what seem to be perfectly valid set a observations by the OP. It made me think how people here seem to complain so bitterly about the dogmatic and hostile reactions by the folks over at ASR. In either case there is no excuse for insults when somebody has made a civil comment. 

Monster stranded or solid?  It's like saying I tried two types of Thunderbird wine and I really don't understand wine connoisseurship at all.

Make sure you don't sit on that flute 😯

You’re right to be judging sonic qualities by listening to acoustic music. Large-scale classical, chamber, quartets, jazz can present proper tonal qualities, dynamics, and nuances not found in electric or amplified music. I listen to mainly classical music and also attend live concerts which helps confirm realistic sound from my home system.

So…for filmic qualities we should only be watching surveillance camera footage?

No one denies the need for nuance in hifi systems. But let’s not oversimplify things.

Music is a very general category that includes live, recorded, multi-track, synthesized, etc. The notion that the "sonic qualities" of music are paradigmatically represented by live acoustic music is like saying all food should be eaten raw or that all films should simply be surveillance camera footage.

Painting moved past simple portraits and landscapes to impressionism, cubism, etc. -- and, to tell the truth, even those simpler pictorial genres had a helluva a lot of interpretation and selection already built in. Any architect who built a concert hall already knew they were participating in the construction of sound. Same thing with any violin builder. The challenge is to create a technology that is expressive enough for the artist to communicate their ideas. It's not, and never was, about "realism" if that means some kind of simple isomorphism. 

The notion that sonic representation is necessarily sonic degradation betrays a profound naiveté about what art even is. To use it as a guide is foolhardy.

There are many of us Olden HiFi enthusiast types, who are ’curmudgeonly’ influenced in their assessments and there are plenty to be encountered, who are at the threshold of being ’curmudgeonly’ influenced whilst making assessments.

The younger generations are not too eager to be found on forums, to much exuberance 🧗‍♂️ for life, to be idling away as a keyboard bound professor 👨‍🎓 of their viewpoints. That is for the Denison's of the realm of being that belongs to the 'curmudgeonly' old and those a little old before their time. 

I do get excited over a Cables influence on a system, I like to experience Cable Comparisons, I t does help put a few miles on the Zimmer Frame 😁but there are systems that are not too resolving of details and there are those that can demonstrate a prowess in resolving detail.

Dependent on which system type is having Cables Exchanged as a Comparison Experience, will determine how much a Cable can impact on the SQ of a System.

Also keep in mind that the Connectors chosen to be used on a Cable and the Devices Chassis are also instrumental in being contributory to the perceptions being created of the SQ being produced.

                     SO MANY variables

                   and: life's SO SHORT!

                        Happy listening!

Say what now?    Random bits of sequential memories loosely bundled, unsubstantial and obtuse in their deterministic conclusion.  Try actually having some meaningful experiences with cables before settling on an industrial solution.  

It's your opinion and your enjoying your music...I think that's awesome.

Your preferences and experiences are different than mine and we both have the same goal - enjoying music!

Way too much anger directed against someone's actual experience.

+1 clearthinker

Hi-fi amplification is a process of limiting factors. If any single component in the signal path muddles up the sound, no other component is going to come along and put the sound back together. It could very well be the case that, because of your specific system and space, alarm cable is sufficient. For some on this forum, this is not  the case.

I personally stuck with lamp wire for a long time and upgraded only after A/B'ing some raw cable designed for speaker use. This was not expensive cable by any measure, but there was an improvement. This was a 4$/foot cable between a Tektron Evo amp and a pair of Klipsch Heresy's.

I think your original post had an air of nihilism about it - something that reads like - it can never be as good as live, so why bother climbing the ladder. I think most of the folks here either willing to take the incremental improvements as wins, or maybe just enjoy the climb. Either way I have never encountered anyone here who wouldn't subscribe to an 'its all about the music' slogan.

My only recommendation to you would be to keep an open mind if you choose to continue improving your home system. You don't need to spend thousands on speaker cable to keep up with the Jonses, but you shouldn't dismiss the experience of others when trying to identify and improve the choke-points in your personal system. On the other hand, if you're satisfied, then sit back and enjoy what you've got. I would be afraid to accidently hook the speakers up to my alarm system - but I'm kind of stupid sometimes.

Does the alarm system have luscious midrange and toe tapping inciting wide soundstage (not TOO wide) "straight wire with gain" absolute accuracy? Or is it simply alarming?