CAN WE AUDIOPHILES DO OUR PART?

Hey, mods, do your duty! Deep six my stalker.

Please stop humping my leg, it’s getting chaffed and bloody. Go play in the street little boy.

Do viruses now respect inter-county borders?

The fact that your experience has been different is THE main issue. The response to the pandemic was general and central. THAT was the mistake. Counties in northern California with ZERO cases never needed the same measures as New York City.

@geoffkait Thanks for those mortality rates. That clears up everything. Well, at least it clears up why so many people don't seem to have a clue about this pandemic.

A simple thing that you can do is to sign an online petition to help independent music venues that are struggling because of this pandemic.

The National Independent Venues Association consists of 1300+ music venues from all 50 states. Their website is:

www.nivassoc.org

It will take you less than 1 minute to sign the petition; and, they are NOT asking for any donations.

" If you want to do your part, go out and protest the unconstitutional lockdown and closing of businesses. " DAMN RIGHT this is all political BS to destroy this nation. I can't believe how many can't see the tyrant right in front of them reaching out to take the constitution of the USA away. No face mask and I go where I want and screw these Wuhan Red Death fraud merchants of doom. A death rate lower than flu and pnuemonia and then add into it all the bogus ways they count people to claim they died of Wuhan Red Death. This is the most monstrous and cynical attempt to destroy freedom in my lifetime.

Getting awfully snarky in here, folks. 
My 2 cents:
pay attention to the health care professionals,
not the political hacks and talking heads.
Stay safe.
There are piles of bodies telling us that this is not just the flu.

" There are piles of bodies telling us that this is not just the flu. "
  You seriously need to do some research into how they change the calculation of Wuhan to fit the need. For instance in Virginia where the Gov wants as much damage to the economy as he can get for election time they have changed the way they count wuhan cases. Now if 24 hours or more has passed the same person can be tested and each time be a "new" case. This nice Gov has also said things will not open back up until the new case rate goes down but he made it so that will not happen.

  Then please go to the CDC site and carefully look at the  flu stats from 2010 until now. In particular when you do so remember that they did not change the way flu was calculated but they have done so with Wuhan Red Death so it has been purely political from the word go.

  2017-8 flu season 62,000 died and 25,000,000 were hospitalized. Now one of the results of flu in elderly is of course pneumonia and when they die of pneumonia that is how it was listed. With this wuhan crap they take anything even remotely exacerbated by wuhan and claim it to be a wuhan death. Never do they say it is from people with other serious life ending on their own problems in combination with wuhan with an average age of 75. 

  Biggest bunch of fear mongering and blatant attempts at overthrowing the constitution this nation has ever seen.

Conspiracy paranoia is rampant in the U.S.A.. Is it in other countries as well? Attributing motive to those you disagree with is risky business. How many here have been tested, even once? Everyone in The White House gets tested every single day. If the threat/risk is overstated, why? Many carriers never knew they were infected, yet could have passed the virus on to others.

My 20 year old son told me that "WHO" now stands for Wuhan Health Organisation. 

On both side of the aisle we are seeing the inevitable attempt to benefit from the latest crisis. 

Some people actually think they have a constitutional right to infect others.  Thank goodness for thinking and caring people like Snarbut.

If you are going to compare mortality rates, compare them to similar countries.  Sweden is at 12.4% and every country that borders Sweden in under 5%.  Draw your own conclusion.

The 62,000 is an estimate. That is NOT the number listed as Flu on the death certificate. The CDC does look at peumonia deaths above the typical average and does attribute them to flu when making their estimates for deaths. The country is in lock down and that 62,000 number was blown through in not much more than a month. Not being properly informed is not your friend.

One thing is consistent between the 1918 flu in this one .... people's behaviors, good and bad.  That does not mean all lock down measures make sense. Some of them really do not, protest those, but overall, this is not just some seasonal flu.

While flu deaths in children are reported to CDC, flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)-attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu.

2017-8 flu season 62,000 died and 25,000,000 were hospitalized. Now one of the results of flu in elderly is of course pneumonia and when they die of pneumonia that is how it was listed. With this wuhan crap they take anything even remotely exacerbated by wuhan and claim it to be a wuhan death. Never do they say it is from people with other serious life ending on their own problems in combination with wuhan with an average age of 75.

The difference in mortality rates between Sweden and adjoining countries can be explained by “irregularities“ or differences in reporting. Criteria and protocols vary widely among countries and in the US among states. Most countries in the top ten have mortality rates comparable to Sweden. Case closed. At least Sweden seems to be transparent in acknowledging their problem.

Sweden and the Netherlands are similar. Denmark and Norway are obviously much better better. Differences in reporting are not going to compensate for the significant differences.

The US, though, is currently much better than many European countries, but the US is much earlier into it's recovery, and has been pointed out, the US is geographically much more like all of Europe, than just any one country.  With Spanish Flu, the US never had a 3rd wave like many countries did ... because their 2nd wave never ended so a 3rd could begin. The 2nd wave was 5-6 months long as it moved through the country.

This is not a political statement, but an attempt to look factually on what has happened and what is happening.

I believe the only thing that would have reduced the total number of cases in the U.S. would have been to restrict foreign travel extensively much earlier. I don't remember a whole lot of support for that from any side.  In conjunction with that, 2 other things would have had to happen, inter-state travel would have had to be greatly reduced (good luck doing that constitutionally), and the cities and states would have had to shut down much earlier. Remember the mayor of NY was promoting people to get out and enjoy life and go to restaurants in almost mid-March, and Biden was holding large rallies. NY state was not shut down till March 22. By then it was too late, too many infected in NY, and those people had spread it around the country and vice-versa.

I am not saying the federal response post mid-March response has been coherent, but, I don't think the outcome, overall, would have been much different with a different government as there was no willpower early enough on either side to do what was needed.

Singapore is a great example of how hard this is to control once it is out in the wild. Single city-state, significant contract tracing, and isolation measures, but like Sweden, never shut down. It worked great for them, initially, until everyone returned from abroad and the system could no longer keep up. High population density now works against them, and they have now 26,000 cases, though they claim very few deaths, which seems suspect, though they really did not start till mid-late April.

To the ones who think it is their right to go back to normal, good for you. If I don’t see you posting here for a while, I will assume you died from the virus but I will not shed one tear for you. We were all warned, if you want to play Russian Roulette with your health, go right ahead. Just remember if you get sick, you will drag others down with you.


I am as antsy as the next person to go out and do things, but I am also sensible and will not go back to normal regardless of what the others say. Only when I feel comfortable will I carry on. I didn’t work my entire life to just retire and die unnecessarily. 80,000+ dead in the past 3 months means this virus is very real. It is probably much higher now that some of the red states aren’t keeping track of the deaths any longer. If the present government says 80,000 it is probably more like over 100,000. Just think if a family member of yours was included in this death total, you would all probably be singing a different tune.


The BS being said that anyone who wants a test can get one is total BS. Maybe for the top 1% which most of us here aren’t in that category. My 71 year old sister has developed shortness of breath and a dry cough but because she doesn’t have a fever yet can’t get tested. For us other 99%, you have to be practically on deaths door before you can get tested and the tests are not FREE.

@ozzy62, your post has been reported. I will not take any of your BS

Calculate your chances of dying from COVID-19 now.

Scientists in the U.K. have created an online calculator that predicts a person’s risk of dying of during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The calculator, named OurRisk.CoV, shows how a person’s age, sex, and underlying health conditions—such as diabetes, severe obesity, as well as heart, kidney and chronic obstructive pulmonary diseases—affect their chances of dying in different COVID-19 scenarios over a one year period in England.

I've always been a risk taker.  Do whatever you are comfortable doing.  As for me, I think I will go out later for a cold draft beer at one of my favorite microbreweries.  After all, this is Wisconsin. Cheers!

Stereo5,

I cant believe you would state on a public forum that you received pay for the last weeks of employment and did nothing. Welcome to the world of most of us in the private sector. No doubt I owe you something, can I pay for your sister's test?

c4659
I’ve always been a risk taker. Do whatever you are comfortable doing. As for me, I think I will go out later for a cold draft beer at one of my favorite microbreweries. After all, this is Wisconsin. Cheers!

>>>>Uh, but it’s you who are putting your drinking buddies at risk? They will really be cold ones then. What is it about WI and MN that’s makes them so slow on the uptake? Who knows? Cheers!

This is Audiogon, not Rhetoricgon, Armchairwarriorgon.
Wha-happened?  
Oh, man I need to work on my sentence structure.

@ozzy62, your post has been reported. I will not take any of your BS

Yeah, you reported MY post after you edited YOURS. Real nice, Nancy....

This a lose/lose scenario. Health versus economy. Individuals are affected differently and will have different views on what’s best for themselves and others.


We are where we are currently ie better off than otherwise because of the preventive measures taken.

You can’t look at the results of the preventive measures then say those measures were not needed.

We should all now understand why blind libertarianism does not work in cases like pandemics where what everyone does affects everyone.

As things open back up we will see how things go. Everyone knows more now than they did when things started and that is the big difference that hopefully moves us forward and not backwards from here.

Audiogon owes him for his many years of work for which, evidently, he didnt receive a salary nor any benefits. 

Also I think that the solution is to err on the side of caution. Choose the solution with which the fewest people die. Are some actually suggesting that government imposed restrictions are the first step in some greater scheme to control the people? 

Oh and hopefully as things move forward we will be well guided by both science and facts not opinions or desires of any one person. 

Yeah, right. As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his records, Good luck with that!

heaudio123

... One thing is consistent between the 1918 flu in this one .... people's behaviors, good and bad. That does not mean all lock down measures make sense. Some of them really do not, protest those, but overall, this is not just some seasonal flu ...

I think this is a pretty good summary, and I'd only underscore that Covid19 is not the flu. Morgues have overflowed and bodies have literally piled up.

Well GK I agree. It’s clear now that leaving it up to individuals alone to do the right thing does not work in cases like a pandemic where what each does or does not do has effect on others.

Science and facts has to determine what is or is not done. Individual opinion won’t cut it.

Also gotta note that Bob Dylan does not say that at the end of any of his records I have heard but if that is your opinion then that’s a different story. 😌

audition_audio,

you either don’t read well or comprehend well.  I did MY job and the directors job for a year and did not receive any extra compensation like I was promised by administration. I was supposed to get an extra 20K that year and got nothing.  They are way ahead of the game as it was the last 2 weeks before retirement.  No one owes me anything and I don’t remember asking you for permission.   I hope you aren’t a legit audio store because I certainly would never buy from you and I would advise my many friends from doing so as well. 

@ozzy62, you are right but I re-read my post and thought it better to be more civilized than you could ever hope to be, so I re-wrote it NANCY.  You, MC and quite a few others are quite arrogant. I hope you all go out and enjoy yourself, just don’t come crying around here if you get sick. I like to err on the side of caution and hope to live as long as my parents did, to my mid 90’s. 

Then instead of whinging about this decades later you should have taken advantage of the avenues available to you to force them to keep their promise. Actually we are a real audio store and I know I shouldnt post such things because this can cost us business but sometimes something must be said. I would hope that our brands and our level of competence would be the deciding factors.

@audition_audio,

you attacked me for no reason other than to get into the conversation because I don’t agree with your you and your buddy’s. Like I said I will tell everyone I am friends with in Audio how you reacted and let them be the judge. As for myself, it’s a losing battle arguing with your type, ie, mc, ozzy62, and the rest of you very arrogant uninformed people. life is too short and you guys have pushed my blood pressure higher than it has ever been. Happy? I hope so.

@n80: I’ve already expressed that delayed care is an issue. A significant issue. I am not downplaying it. I don’t pretend to have the answers. I will not advocate any particular plan with steadfast conviction because I don’t have the answers. I’ll give the same response, again, about the empty hospitals. It’s a real and serious problem. People will die from the virus and people will die from the response to the virus in various numbers with any plan that is implemented. If you claim, again, that I don’t think that the negative effects of having empty hospitals is another issue, I’ll know we aren’t having a good faith discussion. I don’t know what the proper balance is. I am not downplaying it. What I can tell you from first hand experience, and plenty of second hand experience(my fiancee is a pulm/crit physician at a another larger hospital and between the two of us we have a reasonably large network of physicians to collect regional information) is that by the time you see the tip of the iceberg, assuming you haven’t been taking aggressive local measures, in many cases you are going to find out you’ve already lost. You’re going to have a really bad few months even if you lock everything down completely at that point.

It seemed pretty obvious from the beginning that any adequate response in regards to the virus would later be met with significant push back as people made claims like: "See! The numbers aren’t even that bad!" Right, they aren’t that bad in the setting of dramatic measures taken to stop the further spread of the virus. That is not the same as saying they never would have been that bad. I suppose this is my biggest point. Don’t use the fact that things didn’t explode in the setting of drastic measures being taken to downplay the seriousness of the situation.

Btw, the response to the pandemic is not central and general. There are guidelines and some central programs etc, but the states are the ones imposing the shelter in place orders etc. Did I miss something? Seriously, if I did let me know. Maybe you mean central in terms of California state making a "central" decision? That’s not really the proper terminology in this context, but ok. Maybe that means California is too big? It is bigger and more heavily population that most countries. Sure. I don’t know. I’m not very knowledgeable about California. For the record, I agree we need to worry about erosion of liberty. We always do. It’s a very real and obvious concern. That concern needs to be discussed in the setting of proper information, though. This is addressed more generally(as in not really at you N80, others are making the next claim I’m about to address), but this is not the flu. This is significantly more deadly and causes significantly more morbidity. True, we don’t know EXACTLY how deadly yet...but I’ve never seen a relatively healthy sub 40 year old(zero or one well controlled comorbidity) die of hypoxic respiratory failure. I’ve seen more than a few already in that group die from Covid-19 pnuemonia. I’ve seen a lot more of them stuck in the hospital for weeks or even more than a month on varying levels of oxygen support. Many go home on home oxygen(at least they did, it takes like a week to get it now because supply is low). Never seen that with the flu. It’s not the flu. I’ve never seen refrigerator trucks behind the hospital because the morgue is full during flu season. At least one hospital I know of in the area needed a second truck because the first was full.

I’m done though. I can’t waste any more of my day off on this. Have fun all. Enjoy your music. Stay safe(whatever that means to you). For those of you hurting with businesses. I wish you the best of luck. I’m sorry you have to go through this. I hope we can get everyone back to work as soon as possible in an intelligent way. My vote would be for reliable antibody testing(we just need to work on that reliable part first), but I’m open to whatever works.

I hope you all go out and enjoy yourself, just don’t come crying around here if you get sick

If I get sick, I get sick. It's all about common sense, which is definitely not so common anymore. You stay in your house and wait until nothing bad ever happens again. At that time, you can ride off into the sunset on your unicorn. 

As for me, I will continue to live my life and do the same things I always do during flu season. I wash my hands, try not to touch anything I don't need to and don't allow anyone to cough on me. But damn to hell the government telling people they must shelter in place or risk being arrested. Quarantine the sick and the "at risk" demographic (if they want to) and let everyone else go about their business. What could be more simple?

stereo5,
Really! Everything you and others have said didnt raise by blood pressure one iota. Yes let them be the judge but be sure to include your first thread about having given enough and include the thread verbatim. 


ozzy,
I dont disagree with much of what you just wrote, but exactly which states or governments are threatening arrest due to non compliance? Certainly not my state! I find it irritating when the man tries to protect me from myself, but there are others potentially involved in this as well. 

audition_audio
“I would hope that our brands and our level of competence would be the deciding factors.”

>>>>>I am hoping my Gap jeans give me some quantum of protection against this scourge. 

Quarantine the sick and the "at risk" demographic

That would be....everyone.

Well I think we are all at risk to die from something. Unless you know something I don't. So let me clarify. Even though young and healthy people have contracted the 'rona and some have died, they are by far the minority. I won't regurgitate statistics here, we've all seen them. But far and away the 65+ group is more at risk. Think nursing homes, hospitals and retirement communities when you consider who should be sheltering in place. And even then, it should be their choice depending on how concerned the are for THEIR own health. Now if you are diagnosed with the virus, you should be quarantined.

Again, let common sense win the day.

No political inferences here as I've been unmasked!! I don't go out very often as I'm over 65, have heart issues and diabetic 
So if I get the virus I'm pretty much a dead man walking! But when I do go out for curb side coffee or take out,  I always give a very healthy tip, plus l always wear a mask and constantly wash my hands every chance I get

A cornerstone of Libertarian philosophy is "do your thing as long as that doesn't hurt others." During this pandemic, gathering in large unprotected groups harms others as has been proven over and over, and attacking Fauci, blaming "Chiner", and creating the ridiculous Obamagate topic exists only to help perpetuate an imaginary world where Trumpers can be happy and stay dumb while they plunge down the drain.

ozzy62,

"Unless you know something I don't."

I do.

“I always give a very healthy tip, plus l always wear a mask.”

Just so you know, a mask is not worn to protect the person wearing it. Ironically perhaps the mask is worn to protect others around from you.

N80, I am a bit shocked that you are a physician and are unaware of the Covid-19 big picture of your nation. The other individual its to be expected.

If you take the combined total cases in your two states (SC & WA), it comes to 25,000 cases compared to a total of 1.4 million cases in the U.S. In terms of deaths, there have been about 1,400 combined in your states compared 86,00 in the nation. So because your states faired rather well you are going to extrapolate your results to other states?

Talk the hand, Gluby. 🖐 Why are you such a freak? What happened?

geoffkait,

I could talk to the hand, but your idea of mask may be a little incorrect.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/n95-respirators-...

geoffkait,

"Why are you such a freak? What happened?"

How much time you have to listen?