Cartridge recommendation for classical listening

I don’t think i can use a moving coil, because the output level of my vintage Conrad-Johnson preamp is Low and designed for moving magnet.

Here is what you like:
Grado Reference Sonata1 Phono Cartridge Specifications:

- Type: Moving Iron
- Output voltage: 5mV
- Frequency response: 10Hz - 60kHz
- Load impedance: 47k ohms
- Channel separation: 40dB
- Stylus type: Nude elliptical
- Stylus replacement: Factory replaceable
- Mounting: 1/2 inch
- Compliance: 20mm/N
- Tracking force: .075 - 2.0 g
- Recommended tracking force: 1.5 g
- Weight: 6.5 g

You could try another Induced magnet (IM) cartridge, but without that notorious Grado HUM problem, for example the ADC TRX II with Sapphire cantilever and much better Vital III stylus tip. This is a high compliance cartridge. Look for NOS samples, actually with your budget withing $1k you could buy two great MM or MI cartridges. 

I have Grado XTZ myself and many other cartridges in my collection are more refined than Grado signature XTZ. 

I believe for a classical music you need a high-ish compliance cartridge with high resolution guaranteed by refined stylus profile and very low moving mass. 

I could highly recommend Grace LEVEL II Ruby if you want something serious. There are more great profiles for LEVEL II model including MicroRidge / Boron.

Grace moving magnet cartridges are very nice! 

Remember those superb vintage MM/MI that can easily pass a test (  cannon shots ) on Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (Telarc LP) ?? Only exceptional cartridges can stay in the groove while playing those Cannon Shots, suspension of the cartridge must be very well designed. 

If you want to stay with mid compliance then Victor X-1II (MM) series is something special too.  





  

@rvpiano    test    

There is nothing wrong with the Rega Exact 2 that I run on my Rega RP6.There is a a lot to be said for the 3 hole mounting system , esp. as one’s eyes and hands grow less reliable . I bought it already mounted on the
R- 303 arm by Rega . I have a lot of mounting gear and it was spot on .

It is a very high-out cartridge and will take your volume knob down a bit ,which is no problem . Very good on Piano and Chamber Music esp. Piano . Good on symphonic esp . on mass strings . Adequate on stage.
600 $ .

I also have a Pioneer Direct Drive because I love to play around with carts and I keep around 5-6 Sumiko mounted head shells to play around with .
The Cartridge that blows the others away on that 600 $ TT is the Nagoka MP-200, just plain no faults, though not quite as transparent as my other favorite the Goldring 1042 which is outstanding in instrumental seperation and detail but tricky to mount .Both of these sell around 450 $ .
Other one I have heard a lot with classical on a friend’s 1500$ Pro-ject with a nice arm is the SoundSmith Carmen which at 999$ is very airy and lyrical , an listen to all day rig .Plus they are close to you and retip their carts at reasonable cost. I think they have a 30 day trial , but they answer the phone on that .


Because systems in general, and TT’s in particular , are so different I seldom make cartridge recommen’s anymore .But I’ll make you a deal on either the Nagoka MP-250 or the Goldring 1042 . Don’t like one , I’ll buy it for 400$ shipped .
As I said , I’ve never heard them on Rega arms.


Stay home, we need you !
Cheers,
Len

Chakster,

Thank you for your info.
Very valuable.

rv , looking at the Conrad -Johnson  ,  The Rega-Exact 2 is made for that !
Only draw back is it has a solid body and can not be re-tipped .But , it seems to be quite long lasting . Rega knows what they are doing !

Len,

I appreciate your recommendations.  I know you listen to a lot of classical music.
Since I’m not at all good at installing cartridges, I’ll have to have the dealer I buy it from install it.
 I’m staying home.  I can’t keep my wife from going out, however.

Richard

Len,

 I’ll seriously consider the Rega-Exact 2.

Richard , I have never seen a cartridge built as well as the Exact-2Output 6.8-7.2 Google how Rega builds then IN England .

I used to be very good at it . Used to.

Dear @rvpiano : I agree with shubert on the Nagaoka and inside your budget you can 't go wrong with the Nagaoka MP-500 and it's a hard cartridge to beats and a true chalange for any other today cartridge:

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/nagaoka-mp500-phono-cartridge/

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

I’ll look into the Nagaoka as well.

True , raul . But MP -200 + 300 are close , and he will not find a dealer
that will mount it plus the Exact 2 has higher out-put than his pre needs, is built for his arm
and many dealers  in New York will mount it  . If we live that long .

before spending any real money, I would buy a cheap cartridge to install, to prove it is the cartridge's hum.

IOW, isolate each piece of the chain to determine if hum exists without the Grado.

Buy cartridges made by respected manufacturers who are/were in cartridge manufacturing business for a long time. There are not so many of them and you will see that most of them are Japanese companies. Don’t forget that cantilevers and diamonds for most of the cartridge manufacturers outside of Japan are still made in Japan.

Many cartridges for turntable manufacturers are made in Japan, but they are selling them under their own European, US of British brands. Most of such cartridges can’t compete with pure Japanese high-end MM, MI or MC.

And finally, if you like Moving Magnet or Moving Iron cartridges you have to understand that modern trend in High-End is LOMC, not Moving Magnet or Moving Iron, except maybe for SoundSmith who promote his MI design for years, and those Grado (also in business for a very long time).

The giants of the industry designed MM cartridges in the 70’s and that was the time when MM was absolutely amazing, in my opinion it was a peak of Moving Magnet cartridges and it’s finished in the late 80’s when digital replaced analog slowly.

The main music media is no longer vinyl, so why do you think those companies of today will produce exceptional MM (like they did when vinyl was the main format for everyone) ? We lose a lot of superb MM/MI cartridges and instead we have mediocre modern MM cartridges for affordable price or something unique for insane prices like this one for example (for many thousand dollars). Or those amazing vintage MM/MI that still available in NOS or MINT condition (i prefer this myself and i can only recommend the same to others).

What i see today is the manufacturers of belt drive turntables jumped in with their strange cartridges, logically i can understand it, if they can sell turntables why not just sell them with "their own" cartridge, it’s so easy to promote it like that claiming their tonearm or turntables has the best sound with their own cartridge, but it’s a myth. Most of those cartridges are just cheap OEM from Audio-Technica and related big Japanese companies, just with a different name on it.

Look for original design instead, for something special.

Most of the new cartridge manufacturers design ONLY cartridges, not a turntables.

If your turntable is Rega then you don’t have to buy a Rega cartridge for it, what is Rega in cartridge manufacturing business ?

I remember Audio-Technica turntables (nothing special), but their cartridges are great. I remember Victor turntables, tonearms and cartridges and they are superb in everything. Technics no longer make any cartridges, but in the 70’s they designed everything on high-end level (turntables, tonearms and cartridges). I never used Grace tonearms, but Grace cartridges were superb.

Nagaoka ? Only cartridges and accessories.
Even Ortofon manufacturing cartridges, their tonearm are made in Japan by Jelco.

Most of the small companies like Benz, Lyra, Koetsu, ZYX, Shelter ... never tried to make a turntables, just cartridges, Koetsu used to make a tonearms, but i think it was also Jelco OEM.

EMT designed tonearms, cartridges and turntables
Thorens ordered their carts from EMT

There are very few (if ever) companies that can make tonearms, cartridges and turntables on the same level and Rega is not one of them.

ClearAudio using Audio-Technica signal generators for their cartridges.

... etc

Chakster,

 I really appreciate your input.
 My problem is that I have no ability to install a cartridge on my Rega arm by myself.( It’s not a screw in type.). Whenever I’ve tried it I’ve screwed it up.
Also, it’s hard to find a competent establishment in my area that will install, without buying.
 So, I’m limited to choosing a cartridge from a store that sells one.
Are you saying that Nagaoka is a good choice?

I know Grados can have this defect, and the extensively modified Rega P3 turntable I use can contribute to the problem

The problem here is not the cartridge but the turntable. For unknown reasons Rega doesn't ground their motor and so it can inject hum into the cartridge- most often Grado gets the blame for this. I have placed a wire between the motor and the base of the arm, grounding the two together and solving the problem.


Its too bad there isn't more feedback about this issue!

Cartridges cannot be designed to favor classical music! The idea that any component can favor a certain genre is entirely mythological. Usually this idea is applied to speakers but it really doesn't matter- what makes a component good for one genre makes it good for another.

I've been a classical music listener for many years.  I use an AT MC cartridge on a VPI TT into a 3 stage all tube phono pre.  Here is my $.02 in no particular order.

I wouldn't buy a moving magnate cartridge without a replaceable stylus.  There are too many good ones out there.

What you want for classical music (or any other kind) is just the best cartridge for your needs.   The cartridge doesn't know what kind of music it's playing.

There are very good cartridges with varying compliances.  Best to match it to your tonearm's effective mass.

For a MM cartridge, easily replaceable styli and good value I would look at the Ortofon line. 

The very best cartridges for any music are MC cartridges.  In the long term, you might want to consider either a phono pre-preamp or a step up transformer that would allow you to use a MC cartridge with your CJ.  Or you might even go for a separate phono preamp and bypass the phono section of the CJ, 

the 1812 Cannon shot is the same as a Bonham kick drum ! well, sort of. 

but as an owner of Grado and a Nakagoka - they are both sweet but do sound different on a Basis Rega OEM300 arm. The Grado has the edge in midrange magic and lushness, the NAK is more incisive and daynamic - particularly in the low end and lower mid bass.

IF in NY Nick At Audio Connection is awesome TT setup guy.

None of these guys have ever run a Rega cart in a Rega arm . They do
not know what they are talking  about .

The idea that you have to match the brand of cartridge to the brand of arm is ridiculous.  It is the kind of nonsense hype broadcast by Rega which sells a lot of arms and would like to sell a lot of cartridges, some of which are simply re-badged and repriced from other manufacturers.  Over at AA where lots of systems are listed, most owners of Rega TTs who list their cartridges are not using Rega cartridges.  Now, some of Rega's MM cartridges may be terrific.  I wouldn't really know as I haven't considered MM cartridges for many years.  But I have friends who have found success with Ortofons.

My local dealer recommends the Sumiko Blackbird High output MC cartridge.
An Absolute Sound 2020 review raves about it.  Of course, I know they rave about everything these days.
But still........ 

Dear @rvpiano : Due that you really like that Grado cartridge what you have to do is to follow the atmasphere advise . Read again his post and the advise coming from he I know will works and you will be really satisfied with.

R.

I’d try the Hana line of cartridges, very sophisticated sound and excellent tracking ability. An economic and excellent solution would be the audio technica AT-F7 with a step up transformer.

I too would nominate the Hana. Try the Hana SH. The sound is faithful to its name Hana, gorgeous. Needless to say, the Shibata tip is better than the elliptical (EH) when it comes to tracking and detail extraction, which are essential to good classical music playback. 

A Hana LS (low-output Shibata) with a SUT would indeed be a formidable combination! 

Hana sounds good but it ’s dynamics are too low for symphonic music.
The Rega Exact 2 I use is a solid body and is made totally in England  by Rega and Rega alone .Very high  quality.

Ortofon 2M Black

I recently put an Ortofon Quintet Red on a Linn Akito and after some break-in it sounds astonishingly good, and not music genre specific one iota as befits any good cartridge (or any gear for that matter). I'm looking forward to exploring the rest of the Quintet line if I get tired of the Red...but for now it's so good it's likely gonna be around until I wear it out.

My quest is over!
Thanks everyone for your valuable input.
In the end I had to let practicality dictate the answer.
I decided on the Sumiko Blackbird.
The store expertly installed the cartridge free of charge.
Out of the box, I am happy to say that the Sumiko has made me more than contented
It’s in a different league from the Grado
 An excellent match to my CJ,  I hear details and subtleties I never heard before. No harshness.  Very refined presentation. More real.
And, no trace of a hum!
Once again, I hear the niceties of analog sound.

Again, to all, my gratitude for your input.

I really appreciate your input.
My problem is that I have no ability to install a cartridge on my Rega arm by myself.( It’s not a screw in type.). Whenever I’ve tried it I’ve screwed it up.

I’ve noticed that, but let me tell you that an MM cartridge must be installed without stylus, so it is impossible to damage anything. You add stylus when you cartridge body already screwed and wires already connected. Alignment of the cartridge is what you definitely have to learn and practice yourself, but it is very easy if you have a protractor like Dr. Feickert or the one you can get with Hi-Fi Test LP. Both tools are great and must have, you can find them used.

Too late, but i’m pretty sure this Sumiko is not your last cartridge :))

Cartridges cannot be designed to favor classical music! The idea that any component can favor a certain genre is entirely mythological. Usually this idea is applied to speakers but it really doesn't matter- what makes a component good for one genre makes it good for another.

Totally agree with Ralph's statement above. A good cartridge is good for all genres of music. Same about speakers. 

When I had a modded Rega P5, I tried the Sumiko Blackbird.
Great introduction to MC, if it's your first. You definitely have to be aware at at all times, when you're near the arm. The cantilever is quite delicate.

Are you using the Low or High output? That cart can really sing if your phono stage is up to the task. May be a bit hot on the upper end, depending on the downstream equipment/setup.
Enjoy it.

Tablejockey,

 You’re right on both counts.  The stylus is quite protruding. Could easily be damaged.  I have the high output model.  Can be a little hot.
But it works wonderfully on my system.  It does really sing.
Thanks for your good wishes

And don't forget to ask your dealer about the cost of re-tip if your bought your MC cartridge instead of some nice MM. With Sumiko ELLIPTICAL tip you can use only for about 600 hrs at recommended tracking force, then it must be inspected and after 600 hrs mark you will have to re-tip it soon. 

This Sumiko is extremely fragile, the cantilever can be easily destroyed simply because it is not protected at all. A bit strange that you worried about alignment (probably because of possible damage), but purchased the most dangerous cartridge. Like Lyra, VdH and Dynavector with unprotected cantilever , your Sumiko require extreme care in operation. Personally i always trying to avoid such cartridges, because after i accidentally destroyed one expensive MC i realized the cost of repair (if ever ever possible). 

When you reported us that your phono preamp has only MM input i assume your Sumiko is HOMC (High Output MC), right ? A high output MC is always inferior in comparison to the Low Output MC, mainly because of more coil wire winding that cause higher moving mass. 

Of course the most important is your own opinion about cartridge and the sound quality. 

 

What’s surprising about my preamp is that at a ten o’clock setting the volume is quite loud. I’m wondering if the low output model might work better.
However, at this point I’m really enjoying the sound of this model.

Low output model (0.7 mV) will need more gain than your MM input can provide. Also for LOMC you may need optional loading, 47k Ohm could work too, but any lower value from 100 Ohm to 47k Ohm is nice to have too. 

The output of your Sumiko HOMC cartridge is just like MM cartridges, this is why your MM input is fine with your 2.7mV High Output MC

But MM cartridge definitely can work better with your MM phono stage, it can be better in terms of sound with more advanced (user replaceable)
stylus profile than your Elliptical, but the output of MM cartridges also higher up to 5mV depends on the model. 

Anyway, step by step upgrade is a long process, enjoy your HOMC, you can always find something better in the future. 

I wouldn't mount a $1K cartridge on a P3. It's a nice turntable but I doubt you can wring enough performance out of that deck and tonearm to justify the spend. Others will surely disagree. If it were me I would mount a Nagaoka MP-500 and be done with it.

IMO, the London Decca cartridges and Ortofon SPUs are especially good for classical music. Both cartridge brands have models in their respective families for well under $1,000. But these cartridges will require tonearms that are compatible with their size, weight and resonance limitations.

The P3 has been extensively upgraded with nearly a thousand dollars in modifications.

In fact, I was amazed at what the turntable was capable of with this new cartridge.

I wouldn’t mount a $1K cartridge on a P3. It’s a nice turntable but I doubt you can wring enough performance out of that deck and tonearm to justify the spend. Others will surely disagree. If it were me I would mount a Nagaoka MP-500 and be done with it.

I think an investment in a good cartridge is worth it for any turntable, because that cartridge does not have to stay on one turntable, it’s a separate device. $500 or $1000 - doesn’t matter at all, the price does not indicate the quality directly. Cartridge can cost more than a turntable and it’s fine if the quality of the cartridge is nice.

What must be avoided is an inferior cartridges for more money if the lower price cartridge can beat it easily (only owner can decide for himself).

"I was amazed at what the turntable was capable of with this new cartridge."
rvpiano-

The transition from MM to MC was dramatic to my ears.


The Bird will sing best, playing it thru the most phonostage you can afford.
This is another MAJOR area of audio epihany.


Being a $1K cart, consider something more upscale( $2K+) to REALLY hear it do it's thing.Tubed or SS, will make you realize what the fuss is all about. I'm in the tubed camp. More convincing to my ears.

Getting that cart opens up the "can of worms"

Nicer phonostage for the cart. Upgrading  the table to match everything else..... the madness never ends.

The CJ IS a tubed preamp.

"The CJ IS a tubed preamp."
Perfect, you can go directly to a P8/10!!

For about a year i have two different cartridges and tonearms on one turntable connected to one mc/mm phono stage. This is the combination i am using most of the time for some reason.

1) High mass Lustre GST-801 tonearm with low compliance Miyabi MCA cartridge. WLM Phonata Reference (MC input) mosfet phono stage with built-in SUT.

2) Light mass Denon DA-401 tonearm with high compliance Grado Signature XTZ (MI) cartridge WLM Phonata Reference (MM input). Never heard any hum from my Grado XTZ.

Both cartridges are top class, but entirely different, it’s low compliance LOMC versus high compliance MI. Tonearms are perfectly matched.

It’s impossible to say which one is better!

1) Miyabi MCA is warm with very deep soundstage, great bass. Made in Japan by Takeda-San.


2) Grado XTZ is also warm with very wide soundstage. Made in USA by Joseph Grado.

Cartridges are different, but both are amazing in its own way.

This is the reason i never understand the statement that MC is better than MI by default, it is not true.

I wouldn’t listen to people that never had all types of cartridges for a long time using the best in its class (LOMC, HOMC, MM, MI, IM, MF)

Honestly, even if on a weekend i prefer one type of cartridges i know that there will be another weekend when my preferences will change to another type. It is absolutely necessary to have all types ready to use, for this reason i have two turntables, many phono stages, suts, headamps connected to 4 different tonearms with pretty big collection of cartridges on the record shelfs.

I think none of my top 25 cartridges can disappoint me, no matter what type (LOMC or MM/MI). Record pressing or mastering can disappoint me. The rest is all about the mood.

I like the process and i like the result. 5-10 years ago i tried many cartridges that disappointed me, i don’t have them anymore.

I curious what i’m gonna do in the next 10 years ? I believe most of the greatest vintage cartridges from the 70s/80s/90s already discovered.

Now that I have several hours on the cart (playing it almost all the time,). It is sounding even better. Along with the definition and detail has come a sweetness and warmth I didn’t expect.  Very happy with it!

@rvpiano great, now while you are enjoying your new cartridge you’d better send your Grado MI for inspection to make sure the stylus is not worn out.

The hum problem is gone with Sumiko ?

It is always worth to get back to the old cartridge after a few month of using new one. Then you can make a honest opinion to make sure you’re not just biased by the new toy :)) If you need more definition use your Grado with 100k Ohm loading instead of 47k Ohm.

Since the stylus tip on your Sumiko is just an Elliptical (you have the same on Grado) i don’t quite understand how you can get a better definition, probably what you hear is a typical MC high frequency raise and some sort of coloration you might prefer over neutrality of the Grado.

Look at the specs:
Your Grado: 10Hz - 60khz
Your Sumiko: 10Hz - 50khz

As you can see the specs for your Grado is slightly better. 

I’m using my Grado XTZ with 100k Ohm Vishay Naked Foil resistors, i have replaced conventional cheap stock 47k Ohm load resistors in my phono stage (just two resistors) and it was a huge upgrade!

The XTZ Grado has superior stylus profile called TWIN TIP.
You could upgrade your Grado with better stylus profile, not sure if the Grado Labs can do that for you, but you can ask.

Part of  (but NOT all) of the hum problem was a faulty outlet.
The Grado/Rega combination always had a hum.  The Sumiko has no hum at all.
I know there is a “new toy” syndrome, but the improvement was evident immediately.
 I think the Grado is probably a little worn out, but it never sounded like the Sumiko.  If anything, the Grado was more “colored.”

I think this article could be interesting read if you want to know the opinion about MC coloration from professionals.

Anyway, personal preferences is just personal.  

Elliptical stylus has very short life span compared to LineContact and Micro Ridge type of styli.