Charging A Fee To Demo An Amplifier In A Brick & Mortar Store

First of all, I’ve never seen a dealer ask for a payment to demo equipment. I have a local dealer who brought in new Usher speakers for me to demo that he didn’t carry before. He also brought Revel Studio2 speakers over to my place for an in-home demo, which I ended up buying.

in terms of this dealer, I’d negotiate a deal where you agree to pay $500 for an in-home demo for a $500 reduction in the sales price, and the demo fee can be either applied to that reduced cost if you buy or a store credit for something else.  If the dealer thinks you are serious he may be willing to do this.  If you buy, he gets rid of this used inventory and you get a deal.  If you don’t buy, he gets compensated for his time. 

Tubes have a short lifespan.  Suck it up if you want to lower the time left on them.  This is why you do not buy tubes.

I spoke with this retailer sometime ago regarding a different item and decided not to deal with them because he seemed very dubious.

Well theres your snswer.... its s CA dealer 🤦‍♂️

If you really want those amps and the store has opening hours, bring cash ! It has never failed me, if you take out a big enough stack you will get your demo for free, and if you tell the owner of the store you don’t need a recipe for the full amount you can probably walk out of there with the amps for 15K. This works with cars too.

Dealers are actively trying to find solutions for showrooming.  Showrooming is very common now and accepted as a normal mode of shopping.  You experience the product at the brick and mortar and then buy it at the cheapest price you can find on the internet.  The choice then becomes to do the "hard sell" when you are there or to find a way to offer full service, allow you to take time auditioning, and be cordial because their valuable time is covered whether you buy or not.   Many times customers decide on a product and then go down the street to fall for the other option.  You get a "deal" from dealers that sell products that are already marked up to then mark them down and make you think you are getting a deal.  Many customers buy a product they didn't really want because you get 30% off which seems to be the tipping point.  Mark up product 30% so you can mark them down and sell something that is not a long-term solution.  Buyer beware when you are offered 25% to 30%.  Real dealers and honestly priced products cannot survive this way.

OP, perhaps the dealer will throw in a foot massage and a bottle of single malt while you listen.

That dealers is a real turkey baste him.

What’s the big deal?
Rare book dealers used to have "back rooms." The farther back, the pricier the books. Supposedly, one famous dealer in London had FIVE back rooms--and in the fifth was a Gutenberg Bible. To "earn" your way back to see the more expensive books you had to demonstrate that you had the wherewithal to buy them. If you never bought any books in the first room, you wouldn’t be invited into the second, and so on.

In other words, only CUSTOMERS were invited to see the good stuff.

Similarly, when I tried to test drive a Honda S2000 back when they were new, the dealer declined to let me. Reason? He was getting inundated with requests for test drives with very few buyers. Why let yahoos put miles on your sports car when it’s just going to be a problem for whomever does buy the thing?

Plus, I didn’t have the money for a Honda S2000 and the dealer probably knew that. I was just a car buff who wanted to try the thing out.

Sounds to me like the OP had simply not qualified himself as a potential buyer of $17k amps. I'll bet if he had already bought a few choice items from that dealer, the dealer wouldn't have blinked at his request to demo the amps.

"Move along, nothing to see here!"

DEALER: How about $500 for an amp demo?

ME: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_8M8EI3M1E

Is there no really good customer service anymore?  The place that I buy from always gladly offers to put you in a listing room and ask if you want them to stick around for any help or questions if not they says take your time and if you need anything just let me know.

If I was asked to pay for a demo I would walk out faster than I came in but thats just me.

I don’t have a ’dog in the fight’ here, but I surely understand why this is done.

Back in the day, when you asked for a sales rep’s time, there was a ’gentleman’s agreement’ that you’d buy from them if the item is what you wanted. Perhaps the explosion of online buying coupled with an entitlement mentality and degradation of what others are worth causes many of us to forget that.
Case Study: Years ago (Circa 1990’s) a friend of mine discovered a little store in Northern NJ that specialized in GPS hardware and software. "Come check this place out!" he said. "They have a great selection, the staff is really knowledgeable and they’re great with service when you have questions."
About six months later, he was in the market for a new Garmin, and he went to the store, burned a lot of their time, and bought from the local catalog warehouse because the price was cheaper. Some time after that he was ready to upgrade again, went to the store, and was astounded to discover they went out of business. Go figure.

If you don’t want to pay for professionalism, be prepared to get what you pay for. Everybody wants good service and knowledgeable, professional salespeople, but that costs money. You don’t work for free, and they shouldn’t either.
"If I was a serious buyer I’d feel offended but there are so many tire kickers who have no intention of buying. If a reasonable fee was posted for like a 30 minute demo there is equipment I wouldn’t mind paying to hear. I don’t think it’s fair to take someone’s time if I know I’m not buying.

THIS.
I'm not saying I agree with his policy, but I completely understand the reasons for it.

To johnto;  Have yo rver worked in retail?  Not everyone who walks in is going to buy!  No reputable dealer would charge for an audition.

Fifty years ago, I worked for an audio retailer. Wow, how times change?

Today? I am in a pivotal role at a major global enterprise online service.

My professional attitude is that IF a product or service can be bought online, it SHOULD be bought online. From a professional point of view it is great that Brick & Mortars are charging, because that pushes more business to online enterprises where returns are a fact of life and not a big deal.

My audiophile attitude is that charging by Brick & Mortars gives me grief, because it is a straw on the camel’s back and a death knoll for their style of doing business. It places them on a danger of extinction list. That makes me sad.

Currently, I live in an area of the world, where there is only one High-End shop in the region, despite being the greatest concentration of post-graduate degree education and technology in the country. I always found that strange . . . very strange indeed. The focus appears more on quantity, than quality. Odd that.

:(

I tried to nuy a used 911 turbo early this year and they wanted to run credit and get a deal hashed out before a test drive. I drove 300 miles to see the car but they do that to weed out joy rides. Is this coming to high end audio?

I worked in a high end store in NY in the 1990's and we would spend a lot of time taking amps or speakers to a prospective buyers house that never was compensated.

I would actually pay for an in home demo myself but not an in store demo.

I worked in a High End audio store in Santa Barbara 40 years ago and we were always playing music in one of our rooms! If someone wanted to hear our best stuff we loved it ourselves and enjoyed the time! That was the best part, everybody was having fun kicked back cranking tunes! We sold a lot of product! Oh the good old days!

Sounds like this dealer is collecting a restocking fee, up front.

How about some qualifying conversations before a demo of this sort? Is the buyer SERIOUS enough that he is going to buy them if they work properly? I am not a tube guy, so I don't know how much the "work properly" definition impacts the decision. If they are used and the performance is a big variable, I don't think there should be a charge, if the buyer is serious.

If I was ever (probably not) going to consider amps for $17K, I would want to hear them in my room in my system, and if they want to charge a reasonable fee for that, I'd probably do it. I bought an arm from a dealer who said buy it, take it home and see if you like it, and if not, return it within 30 days and get your money back. THAT is confidence in a product. It blew me away the difference. He knew my system and turntable and knew the difference it would make.

Are there really people out there who want to spend 3-4 hours listening in a store for the hell of it? BTW may car companies pay people to come in and take a test drive with no obligation whatsoever.

Every dealer I've ever dealt with has their own idiosyncrasies. Some refuse to touch used gear, some low ball trades, others will sell your stuff for you with a small commission, others want to charge huge commissions. Some discount, others refuse. Some are rude, and some are warm and fuzzy. Haven't found the perfect one yet. I spent a few grand on a pair of speakers with a guy who did a nice job unloading my old gear on consignment (especially these days), I thought he could be "the guy", and then he wouldn't take a $30 accessory back that didn't work the way they said it would because their policy is they don't take accessory returns at any time. I was shocked.

If you can deal with the manufacturer, you are much better off, because they want their customers to be happy. I was surprised that some will deal direct. I won't name one you surely know, but they are a household name. It helps to be within driving distance.

This dealer has previously been mentioned in posts as one to avoid so stay away.

I live in metropolitan Phoenix and I usually go to a dealer when looking for new components every couple of years .  I never get charged with a demo fee here.  I usually read reviews of the equipment I am interested in buying and then listen to it connected to the dealer's system.  I don't expect the sound to be the same but I do ask for current  issues if any about the product I am buying. He always let me listen to his current components on demo which usually last an hour or so .  We talk about my audio system but my dealer always shows  me a similar component if he has one that I can exchange if the component does not perform sonically and even lends me his burned in cables to use . If I like how he treats me at the demo session , I usually come back to buy other items and he usually calls me if he gets an excellent high end component as a trade in. 
The only reason I would pay a demo fee is if he  brings the equipment I am interested in buying to my house, sets it up, and let me listen to it for a few days and decide I don't like how they sound. 

Maybe they could give you a 10 year trial and call it good.

Actually, if this gear is that great they might let you try it for 30 days at home before making the purchase.

I am puzzled by the majority of the responses. I remember prior to Audiogon and the other"High End" Audio sites you would go to the dealer.
In my travels Mid 1980"s I would look up Stereophonic in the local yellow pages and visit the store. If I found a product I was interested in based on the reviews from various audio magazines I would ask If they would demo the product. I can’t remember when I was refused a demo. Fast forward 2020.......
A friend of mine works in one of the stores that is still in business. He doesn’t own the store he is an employee. He has worked very hard over the past 23 years.
As the online used market grew he has given in store and in home demos countless number of times. He has educated potential customers that have walked away and bought the products online. That training has allowed him to Identify the tire kickers.
We all know the difference between a retail pair of $30,000 mono blocks compared to a slightly used pair.
This is a fantastic hobby that I have enjoyed during my life time. This forum is a great space to research and I would like to thank everyone for their contribution.

If the dealer wants to charge its up to him. You can always take your business elsewhere.
This is a no brainer...... Enjoy.

I don't think the fee has anything to do with the setup time required.  Heck, they were setup for the purpose of advertising pictures and getting a sale.  Most people interested in purchases in this price range or better are not likely tire kickers.  The fee does help put pressure on the buyer however to make the purchase rather than lose the fee or use it for something they do not need.

I was looking to buy new speakers in the $8k-$12k range a few years back.  A local dealer had a brand which interested me.  I dropped into the store, and the dealer let me listen to a pair of bookshelf speakers by the brand I was interested in.  I like them, but wanted to try out the brand's floorstanders.  I made an appointment for a few days later, and spent a hour or so listening to the floorstanders.  I liked both, but wanted to try at least one of the pairs at home.  I told them that as long as the speakers sounded good at home, I would buy one of the pairs.  The dealer wanted $500 to allow me to take the bookshelf speaker home.  I had to transport and setup.  About half of the $500 was non-refundable.

I balked.  As a long shot, I then called a distributor that carried another brand I was interested in.  He agreed to ship a pair of large floorstanders from St. Louis to SF Area at the same time one of his dealers in Austin was going to be on vacation in SF.  If I didn't like the speakers, I had to pay for return shipping.  The dealer set the speakers up, we listen to music for about 3 hours, had a couple beers.  I really loved the speakers, and bought them.

I would've never called the distributor if I could've auditioned the local pair at home.  Sale lost.  I'm sure the local dealer thinks that I was just a time-waster.

Retailers are able to behave as they please ,no surprises there.Product sales require advertising and customers.For every tire kicker that comes in he will tell 20 other potential customers.Putting a fee in front of it limits the number of potential customers as demonstrated by the reaction here.Not really smart business.As for the issue of setting up said product Im curious as to what the retailer thinks his role is.Surely setting up products for demonstration is part of his work duties.

Time to find a new dealer!

What I think this shows is the erosion of the function of B&M stores.  Before the internet, that's where you went to see, check out, and hear (!! what a concept) equipment.  If you liked what you heard, you started to think you might buy it, and made a couple more trips back.
These days, it's much more probable it will sell over the internet.  The B&M space is essentially functioning as a warehouse/shipping center.  If this merchant wants to maintain the impression of a real B&M store, a customer should be able to come in, look around, and check out anything.  That's part of the cost of doing business.  

If those are the amplifiers on the top of your list, and the price is fair market, I myself would pay a reasonably demo fee. If you don't like their performance, you get them crossed off the list, and just buy something from him for the cost of the fee. Otherwise, you can purchase them with no risk of shipping, damage etc. Pack those monsters in your car and go enjoy.

tomcy6,

"glupson, You don’t think there’s a difference between getting a bike out from the back and setting up a system with a couple of 170 lb amps?"

I was just pointing out different approaches in enticing a potential buyer.

To answer your question, those bicycles I mentioned were driven from the warehouse, assembled, adjusted to perfection, and then I could take a ride and say "doesn't feel quite right". Setting up a bicycle right, even on a very casual amateur rider level, does require some work. To the extreme of having ten mechanics in a competition team.

I have no problem with this particular dealer charging whatever he thinks is right. Still, I remember one member here who at some point (in another thread) said "your first loss was your best loss". Waiting for the right customer to show up may be a losing game, but I really have no experience with running a store. That storage must cost something. I would really think of keeping those amplifiers as an eternal demo rather than losing money and time on tire kickers and giving it away for only $16995.

"Then the customer goes and buys online at a discounted price."

Is the dealer allowed to sell new Audio Research equipment online? I know that some brands have restrictions, but I am not sure about Audio Research.

For old and used equipment, I guess anything goes.

The time wasted on people that don't buy is included in the markup and always has been with stores.   With todays online shopping, these sales people need to make themselves valuable and show why you buy a high price item locally.  

The fee is to pay his chiropractor after having to schlep around those damn heavy amps!  Although if his chiropractor visit is $500, he ought to seek another chiropractor!

 What is happening is that consumers to a store and spend a lot of time talking to store staff asking questions and listening. Then the customer goes and buys online at a discounted price. The store online does not have the overhead an staff costs the brick and mortar store has. If you are a serious customer then you shouldn't have an issue paying to demo. More and more stores are charging to demo because of the online competitive problem. Brick and mortar stores simply have way more cost to absorb.

" still hasn't said how much the fee is/was. Why such reluctance? Note he never got back to OP (see beginning of this thread) "
The dealer responded on 8/30 within the question/answer section of the listing "probably $500" .

I have no skin in this game, not a customer, not an employee but calling the dealer a "pig dealer", the transaction a "scam" seems a bit much. It's his business and if he feels like a demo fee is necessary in this case that's his call, he isn't twisting your arm to come in,  and I expect he understands the risk of selling under that term.

Don't walk, RUN.  They should be developing a relationship with you.  It is not your first purchase that counts.  It is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on.  It is important to develop a relationship, a rapport, and trust with your dealer.  That is not accomplished by charging you for a demo.

@smer319  still hasn't said how much the fee is/was.  Why such reluctance?  Note he never got back to OP (see beginning of this thread).

Never heard of that before----sounds like a scam to me. 

What a pig dealer.  Their markup is at least 25% for consignment, 40% on new.  Just greedy.   I will remember the Sunny name and keep it on my list of dealers to avoid.  If I was ARC I would cancel them as a dealer also - leaves a bad taste in my mouth that they have a dealer like this.  $500 to listen?  My son just went to the Wilson dealer in Scottsdale, he told them he had no money to buy but wanted to hear the Chromosonics, the dealer spent the afternoon with him, knowing he could not afford any of these systems - I won't forget that either.  I am completely spoiled by my dealer.  The subpar dealers must congregate in California.

I would happily pay a fee for a demo.

When I want something, I want a good deal.  No stupid prices.  I’ll contact a load of dealers & buy.   It irks me that I’m expected to pay for tyre kickers who waste hours of dealers time & never buy!

I would never have a free demo, then go elsewhere for the best price.  That’s not cool at all.

I’d much rather pay 20-30 quid for an hour, then I’m not beholden to that dealer.   I can tell him straight what I want to pay & that I’ll be shopping round.
He’s has something for his time.   Everyone’s a winner!
The only losers are the pests who waste dealer’s time.

I know a dealer who does this, but is is for dedicated 1:1 off-hours listening sessions, with drinks, etc. Listening during regular hour is free.

The demo fee reminds me of an old Marx Brothers line:  "do you suppose I can buy back my introduction to you?"
Thom @ Galibier Design

It’s even worse if he bought those amps directly from ARC, and didn’t think through the impact they could have on his space. He now has realized that he can’t sell them quickly, so he’s put them in storage and is trying a fire sale, but the customer must pay for the demo. It’s ridiculous. The dealer made a big mistake, but the customer shouldn’t have to absorb that cost. Additionally, if the customer forks over the $500 and doesn’t dig the amps, then he is left with a store credit which may be useless to him/her currently or at all. That’s ice in winter.

Most dealers do not sell trade in gear in their stores.  They sell it online.  The store is for selling new gear.

You guys have never tried running a retail store, have you?

Look, given the size and cost of those amps, the dealer should have them set up already for demo. If he can't because of space considerations, then he shouldn't have them in the first place. Certainly, he knew or had reason to know, whether he bought them from ARC directly or took them in on trade, that these could be difficult to demo/sell and that they would take up floor space in the store. It's the dealer's fault for failing to anticipate this in the first place, and customers should not have to pay to "hear" his mistake.

glupson, You don’t think there’s a difference between getting a bike out from the back and setting up a system with a couple of 170 lb amps?

dannad, Some details, please. Where and when did you request to see a couple of 170 lb used amps in storage that were being sold online and the owner spent the next few hours getting them out and setting them up for you?

tomyc6,


When I think of the hoops sales people have done to sell me $17,000 of equipment in the past (and me to others), what you describe really does not sound excessive since quite frankly, that is the job.

"... walk into a store and tell the owner that he would like to give the amps in storage a listen because he’s never heard them, and he might be interested, and then expect the owner to say sure, come back tomorrow because it’s going to take me a few hours to get them out and set them up?"

That is exactly my experience when looking for a bicycle. Except that the salespeople insisted on doing it and I was trying to dissuade them.

Had I’d walked into a hifi shop unaware of this practice and a guy told me there’s a $500 fee for an audition, I would’ve been offended and felt insulted.

Let’s be honest. The OP did not walk into a dealer and ask to listen to some gear on display. It has been said more than once that these amps are boxed up and in storage. These amps weigh 170 lbs each. They have 16 power tubes each that need to be biased.

Does anyone really expect to walk into a store and tell the owner that he would like to give the amps in storage a listen because he’s never heard them, and he might be interested, and then expect the owner to say sure, come back tomorrow because it’s going to take me a few hours to get them out and set them up? Really?

I’m sure you can go to Sunny Audio and listen to the gear on display for free, even if you’re obviously not a serious buyer. 

I would love to see all you outraged people open up an audio shop. I’d love to come and talk audio with you and do some listening, maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Of course you’d be cool with that, right?

stringreen,

You are certainly right, but that was the only car around I could fit in, had a trunk, and could hold the road as good as any (Evo, I think it was IX but may be wrong about it as it was a while back).

Glubson....luck was with you that you didn't get involved with Mitsubishi...