Charging A Fee To Demo An Amplifier In A Brick & Mortar Store
I Saw a pair of pre-owned tube monoblocs for sale on an onlline forum for around $17k. The seller has a retail store for hiigh end audio. The seller mentioned that there will be an up-front fee for the demo if a prospect comes to the store the amps are not purchased. The demo fee may also be used for credit towards any purchase in the store.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this. Is this now a common occurance in high end audio stores? I sent a note to the seller asking what the demo fee amount was....two weeks and I didn’t get a response.
Does anyone know what amount of fees are charged for a demo?
I'm in sales. I would love to be compensated every time I pitch a client but it doesn't work that way. Sometimes I spend months courting new business and end up with a donut. The point is I have made a choice and this is the process in the business I have chosen. I went into it with my eyes wide open and accept the fact that sometimes I will spend time that I will not be paid for.
If I ever walked into a shop and was told I'd have to pay for a demo I'd be deeply offended and NEVER spend a dime with those people at any point in the future. Just my 2c.
Most of these problems can be solved by putting audio sales staff on salary or salary + commission.Most of the remaining problems can be solved by the customers who fail to realize the importance of "cultivating" a likeable salesman by showing something more than adversarial attitudes. I always try to come up with something I need before going into the store. If you get a lot of good attention, pay the guy by buying something on the way out: cables, accessories, etc.Everyone deserves to be treated with respect, even salespersons! All stores owe everyone that deference. But if you want a salesperson to set up special demos, cart stuff to your house, do research with suppliers, and THEN cut you more than a token discount--which will usually come out of his paycheck--then you should expect to show the guy that at the very least he has a CUSTOMER and not a stroker.
Tire kickers are the price of doing business, thats just the way it is. If you have an issue with it or are incapable of selling to someone who might not be "real" then its time to find a new business to deal in. I was a salesperson at Sound by Singer in NYC and we dealt with tire kickers all day. You educate and show people the difference between high end and the junk they listen to and you maybe earn a sale down the road
I've been in the retail automobile business for over forty years. While I realize that the two businesses are different, if we treat all of our potential customers with courtesy and respect we might have a chance to earn their business. While I realize that not every looker can afford to buy something he may have an interest in, we try to offer guidance and information too all who come to our dealership. No, we don't let every Tom , Dick, and Harry drive a Charger R/T, but you'd be amazed when treated well how many come back and do business with us, or at least give us an opportunity. They might even recommend a friend or relative give us an opportunity too! Business is hard enough today without having a bad reputation. Then you don't have a chance in hell to be successful.
The fact that he gives in-store credit solves the problem for me.
Personally I would really value a good shop and a salesperson who could give me critical information, guide me in my purchases as well as offer second-hand deals. They meet people all day... clients, reps, technicians and quite often know things in and out.
If you are seriously considering to buy those 17k amps then why not spend several hundred dollars on something you something and then ask him if he would do a brief demo. If he sees that you are a genuine high-end client with the budget, he'd be stupid not to serve you.
A amp demo can be very brief or it may take one hour or more with different speakers, DACs and cables etc. With the previous shop I was dealing with, they would routinely loan me expensive items for multi-day demos and let me know when some great second hand item came into the shop.
If a shop spends considerable effort in giving me good advice and service I will do all my purchases there meaning I will even pay extra than going to the dealer of that product but use them as an intermediary. Good advice and extensive demos saved serious money for me by making proper purchases.
Back in the late 70's/early 80's I worked in a high-end store and we would take someone's credit card number or a check we would hold onto, in case the customer didn't return the loaner, but I've never heard of having a potential customer having to "rent" a demo unit.
One of the dealers I visited when shopping for speakers, on a hot, humid, rainy day in August asked me if I had "an appointment". Though the store was empty they would only allow me to audition speakers in their secondary room, the models I was interested in were in their high end room. Too bad for them, as I spent my $ elsewhere.
It’s their store, they can pretty much do what they want, no matter how stupid. I am thankful that I have a dealer that is as accommodating as the one I go to. With that, they have earned my business time and time again. Mutual respect is what we have.
Um, part of the reason you carry these products. A large part..is the markup. If one buys system 10k...the markup is 40 percent...4000. Most who go to a store spend more
When I visit Audio Classics, they will set up anything I want to listen to without any fuss and after set up, leave me alone to enjoy. That is the kind of dealer you want. When I wanted to hear the Legacy Valors, they took out the big McIntosh speakers and hooked up the Valors to the 1.25kw McIntosh mono blocks with a smile and told me to"enjoy"..
If a store/dealership charges to demo equipment that is not a problem with me. It is my choice if I want to do business with that establishment. As long as that policy applies to everyone.
However, my opinion is also that if the dealer wants to or is trying to sell me something, then I'm not paying to listen. Depends on who is the driver here.
Just like with wineries. When I go to Napa, Sonoma, Paso Robles, etc. there are some small producers that will not let you taste, limited production wines. They expect you to buy based on their word alone. That does not happen with me. I tell them that If I like the wine, I will buy it, but I won't buy wine that I haven't tasted or am unfamiliar with.
this typically works at roughly 90% of the wineries I visit with my wine expert friends. They typically figure out pretty quickly that I am serious about wine and will actually open a bottle for myself and my friend to taste. The wine has to speak for itself. If it is good it is good. if it isn't well...
Same for audio equipment. Except a lot depends on the associated equipment connected and the room. All of which has to be taken into account in demo'ing equipment.
Stopping into a store just to listen is one thing and shouldn't be a big thing if the equipment is already connected and running. If it isn't, then yes, I can understand the issue. However, I will stop into stores to get a feeling as to how the salespeople react to me. How they treat me. Completely ignore me as if I don't exist or can't possibly afford their equipment and therefore, write me off? Discriminate? Whatever. I am feeling them out.
Stereo Design in San Diego was great (owner retired and closed the shop). They knew I was serious and had no problem letting me sit and listen to their top of the line stuff.
Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica is the same way.
Even Stereo Exchange in San Diego has no problem letting me listen to the top stuff.
They can't possibly know if you are a tire kicker with no intention of buying anything of a high roller. So, easy questions help. Are you in the market for anything in particular? What do you currently have? Are you seeking to upgrade? What is your musical taste? What is your budget? Are you willing to hear equipment slightly outside your budget that may be better that what you wanted?
Just getting to know the customer.
Also, I would bet a lunch that this particular dealer doesn't treat every customer this way. If a "beautiful person" walked in or an associate or recommended customer, they would probably set up the equipment and let them listen free of charge.
Call me old fashioned but I think that this is ridiculous and I would literally get up and walk out. There are still plenty of full service audio dealers out there, many who are happy to set up a demo within reason. And if you are the type of buyer that is a "tire kicker" and wastes a sellers time, them shame on you too..... I never ask for a demo unless I am ready to pull the trigger on something.
Store in calif..SF charging 250.00 to listen to setup..for up to 2 hours. 250 csn be a credit towards purchase..must be paid in advance. Thst is utterly extortion. Raidho dealer SAN FRAN
Change the product to HE Real Estate. Realtor wants to charge a fee to "show" the house....Fee will be credited back at closing, but if you don't buy you forfeit the fee.
Wonder how many sales this realtor will have ?
Regarding the original post- the items in question are not unique and are available from other sources, but some effort on the part of the buyer will be required. Some referenced Auto Sales- yes I am aware of situations where the price included a "market premium" for a hot model in short supply- no negotiation, pay the price or leave. But sure as rain, 6 mos later the same model was in stock and available at a discount.
Seller can do what the they want, but unless the seller has a monopoly (this seller does not) the buyer drives the transaction. And this seller is driving potential buyers away.
I think the dealer's business model is not "sound".
If the store is open, his time, like his inventory carrying costs, is simply overhead.
The biggest draw for a bricks and mortar store is to hear equipment and share info with supposedly knowledgeable people.
Given that a high end audio store does not have customer traffic like a discount or grocery store, you would think the owner would want to get people in and listening.
Combine that concept with an extensive used inventory and a bricks and mortar store can make it.
My guy even lets me take used pieces home for audition, at no charge.
Was there a meter in the showroom where you have to keep inserting money for every 30 minutes of listening? Are you kidding me? This dealer is over the line. I could see a restocking fee for an amplifier you purchased then decided to return. Stay clear of this freak-zoid and shop elsewhere.
Just a thought, which might explain the dealers reasons. How has the current economic situation and Covid, affected Hi fi retailers viability? I don't know the answer, but I suspect it isn't good. In theory, spending more time at home, you might look at an upgrade, but unemployment is rising, so buyers confidence is falling. If the retailer is doing his job, he should be doing some cleansing after a demo, which takes time and expense.
So I'm not supporting the charge for a demo, even in store, but maybe I understand it's part of a survival plan for the retailer
Maybe, just maybe, in these current times I could understand a charge for a demo. IF and only IF the store owner stated that the cost was to cover sanitizing the store/demo room/equipment to CDC guidelines before the demo and then also afterwards.
But they didn't state that so I would just go elsewhere.
That would be about one sold every 13 minutes for 12 hours a day for two weeks straight. A few minutes here or there. An achievement, indeed. One must wonder how many people were hired to do all the paperwork.
(1) The dealer is free to charge whatever he would like. But customers are also free to vote with their wallets.
(2) I view demos as a cost of doing business. Car dealers have to let people take test drives. As a lawyer, I have to spend at least 3-4 hours a week talking to potential clients who are speaking to a number of different prospective counsel.
(3) People browse stores. Yes, it takes up time, but you have a great advantage over the internet if you build a relationship rather than view interactions as transactional only. Andy at Saturday Audio Exchange knows how to do it right - he's set up many demos for me, and I buy from him whenever I can.
(4) "Too many hobbyists like to pass time hearing products. They ruin it for businesses." Just plain insulting. You should be grateful for any traffic through your store at all. You don't think that people want to hear gear they aspire to be able to afford, dream about it, work towards it? Short sighted.
This dealer is really shooting himself in the foot. Has the right to do it. I have the right to pee on my dining room table. But I don't, because it's stupid.
When I worked for HRC we did the same thing when homologating the Honda RC45. You paid $1000.00 came out to the track, I briefed you on the controls and nuances of the motorcycle. You then got 10 hot laps. Wreck it you own and G note went to your purchase.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to give a dealer a couple hundred bucks for the time and inconvenience of packing and unpacking them if you don’t buy. However if you have a good relationship with you dealer and have made purchases from him in the past he probably won’t ask for it.
Nothing real new! Happen to me, at the time I went to a S.F. Ca. to visit the Highest high end audio dealer there at the end of the last century. To hear Sound Labs A.1 panels $25 bucks & no choice on records. Here’ WHAT I told him. Will hear them somewhere TRUST ME! I did on a 737 down to L.A> I listened and bought, them plus (2)ARC big Mono blocks to drive them all on the same ticket. Got home sent a copy of the sales ticket to the S.F. Ca dealer and a not so nice letter to him and C/c same to Sound Labs. He’s no longer there dealer in San Francisco. Call me a real S.O.B. Ha!!!!
"
When I created this post, I was truly curious if high end stores were
now charging for an in-store demo. I’d never before heard of such a
thing. I had no intention of being critical of the seller...I just
wanted to know if this was now a widespread and common practice in high
end audio.
" Might want to read more of the posts on your thread I think things have gone beyond being critical , more like damaging
3 cheers for Mammothguy! The guy everyone wishes they could sell to. I’ll give thumbs-up in advance if he brings us a report. It would be especially interesting if you go in there with cash and then get “blown out” by some crummy shenanigans. That’s more salesperson jargon: a “blow out” is when you cause a customer to leave the store without buying. The customer is always right. But when he/she is wrong, a good salesperson doesn’t make a “weenie-wagging” contest out of it. (Especially with women!)
Run away fast run away now. Sign of things to come. If you have a problem with these he is not going to take care of you! His attitude towards customer service 17k to buy something. I can’t hear it for free? He needs your money more than you need his Amps.
This guy is the worst, a disgrace to the local audio community. I walked in several years with a sack of cash intending to buy, and was immediately turned off by his attitude and approach to customer service. Take your business elsewhere! For those of you in SoCal looking to visit a brick and mortar and receive the type of service that spending this type of money deserves, message me and I am happy to provide some excellent suggestions.
I do business with a class-act dealer in La Verne, about a 15 minute drive from the dealer in question in this thread. Honestly, I didn't realize this guys business even existed. Just for the heck of it I'll have to stop by his store and get a feel for the mentality and how he treats potential customers. I'm not a "stroker", I do buy product and I am a loyal customer to those retailers who treat me well. No matter the category, weather it be hi-fi or another such as the fishing gear or ski gear that I buy, I remain loyal to a quality, class-act retailer. I see that the dealer is reading and watching this thread, as noted in his comments above. My suggestion to him is that he probably should pay attention to the amount of comments in this thread that understand his requirement verses those that hold a rather negative disposition about his requirement. To me, it seems, the negative dispositions far outweigh the understanding ones. He may want to make some adjustments to his business policies. Coincidentally, I am in the market for a new set of speakers. Nothing terribly expensive but still, a good sale, in the $10K to $15K range. My timeline is now, not months from now, but now. I will be very interested to see how he does in convincing me that his product selection is right for me and that his business practices and ethics are also right for me.
Never heard of charging for in store demos. While I see the rationale for the charge, kind of defeats it's purpose by decreasing potential customer base. Also, forget the in store demo, doesn't tell you how its going to sound in your room. Seems more reasonable to charge for an in home demo, the store doesn't have to spend time to set up and you can lug the amps out of the store. All they have to do is collect the money, seems like a win win deal to me.
OK, katzenjammers, I apologize upfront if this gets pedantic, but I’m thinking from experience here and it’s kinda up my alley. Back in the golden years (1970-1990) I benefitted from all the yuppies-coming-of-age (I was one) and the simultaneous rise of audio/video toys in everyday life. It was fine! I actually made a decent living selling expensive stereo in a nice store to nice people. Think of it! In all that time, I NEVER asked for a demo fee. I can see scheduling appointments to audition a system, but what the hell am I there for?
I was general store manager in 4 major stores spanning both coasts and fly-over country. OMG! I worked the floor at Harvey’s in midtown Manhattan. 5th Ave. Hundreds of what salespeople call “strokers” AND buyers flooded in at lunchtime. Heaven on retail earth! But I would never ask for a demo fee. New Yorkers can get emotional.
I remember helping Stevie Wonder one day in LA. I think he had come in to see the owner about his Christmas presents. Remember the Sony D-20 disc-man? They were out for the holidays and he bought about 300 to give to his close friends. I talked him through the Tandberg stack (he had an older one in his bed) and he listened to some Stax. Previously, one of our guys had built him a fourposter bed with 4 KEF 105 mid/tweeter posts and a big sub under the bed. Can’t imagine why. Every one of those freaking Sony’s came back defective! First run! And it had to be practically a no-profit deal to begin with. I digress. But I didn’t ask Stevie for a demo fee.
Let me repeat myself: Brick and Mortar Retail Audio is DEAD! Deceased! A Goner! Look at that sellers AG page. He has huge sums tied up in incredibly slow moving gear AND a showroom in West Covina! West Covina is LA expensive but a Lifetime Away from the big money in LA. This guy is under tremendous pressure even in normal times and now all this? But I wonder:
Great demo music should be on ALWAYS in that store.
All that gear should be left on all the time anyway. Is it so hard to turn up a volume knob?
If I buy it online, without a demo, do I get another $500 off?
In another post somewhere I described the malaise that infects most retail salespersons who are caught in a downward spiral—of the economy, the dealer, their own income. When they begin to crack under the pressure, they can come to work with a negative mindset that just becomes further aggravated by strokers. It really is “retail burnout.” Friend of revolving doors everywhere. Ask anyone with more than 10 years selling anything retail.
Eventually, surviving retailers will realize that commissioned salespeople are not happy EVER! The owner figures that’s motivation—and it is when there’s traffic in the store. But when times are lean, like now, it’s too important to keep good sales staff happy. Pay them! They’re guarding your big investment! And SAD BAD!
Train, train, train. Not at 8AM Saturday! Train at night, after closing, with plenty of beverages! Air it out!
If I had the ability to buy those amps, I’d sure rather be dealing with a professional—given the choice. In fact, I would fly to Covina, listen to the amps, and bring them back with me. Crap! Those used amps are worth as much as the house I bought in the 70s with all that loot I got off nascent boomers.
"These are packed and put away. Can you tell me what kind of system would you want it demonstrated with ? Please call the store...Probably $500.00 which will be applied to purchase price of $16995.00"
Translation: My overdue electric bill is about $500.....
The dealer tried to justify this expense/charge by stating that time was involved in setting up a system for the demo of these amps. THAT IS WHAT A DEALER DOES ! THAT IS THE REASON WHY B/M SHOPS ARE DIFFERENT THAN ONLINE SELLERS ! Dealers and B/M shops are expected to provide a higher and different level of service than an online vendor. If a DEALER is unwilling to provide these services, or is oblivious to the need to do so, then the Dealer should find another line of work.
20+yrs ago I encountered a "by appointment only" dealer who tried to extract a demo charge before setting an appointment. The dealer had several pieces I was interested in, and the price points were acceptable to me. My reply was laughter. I found another area dealer who had the same items, at roughly the same price points, and I purchased what I wanted to purchase. No charge to demo, or set an appointment, or walk into the store. I later went back to the offending dealer and showed him a copy of my receipt as evidence of my purchases. He was not happy. I quietly explained that I would have done business with him, but found his demo charge to be offensive. I then found a more accommodating dealer who received my business. Offending dealer went out of business within 12mos of my interactions with him.
«Similarly, when I tried to test drive a Honda S2000 back when they were new, the dealer declined to let me. Reason? He was getting inundated with requests for test drives with very few buyers. »- DualMarantz
The same thing happened to me! Since I anticipated it, I showed to the unfriendly rep my NSX key and said: If you think I do not qualify for a S2000! Would have never bought from him, and this seller made a mistake because I bought one later ...
Regarding OP situation, I concur that nowadays it is difficult for B&M businesses, but it is part of their job to spend time promoting and trying to sell what they have to offer.
Obviously, I would consider as serious a guy who owns Pass Labs gear and shows interest in tubes monoblocks and would not try to put unnecessary and unfriendly obstacles in the process ...
For those saying that he will buy elsewhere online, we are not talking about common pieces of hifi gear ...
I would not pay that 500$ fee, customer is king, I would even convince him, after an in store listening, to try them at home, and for free!
You want to sell them? Well, you’ll have to work and convince me.
You don’t want to take this route, you only want to make a quick and easy sale and wait for your sucker? Then you will have to accept a nice discount over your asking price !!!
No Way. I'd pay more to someone else first just to keep the money out of their pockets. I don't buy homes or cars like that and won't pay for someone to do their jobs. They also miss out on future purchases. I know it's not my name on their license, but I refuse to ever pay a fee.
@smer319 ... I disagree completely. You’re making the guy pay for a demo in YOUR listening room with YOUR equipment and YOUR cables, most or all of which are different from that of the customer. So, even if the customer digs the sound, that’s likely NOT what he’s going to hear at home. If you were setting up the demo in the customer’s house, then charging to do so would be acceptable. However, that’s NOT what’s happening here. Bottom line ... you made a mistake with those amps, can’t keep them out for demos, took a bath on them, and are now trying to make back some $$ at the expense of any customer who might want an audition. I would hope that reasonable people would decline your "generous" demo offer and look elsewhere.
There is a lot of confusion on this topic. What we offered was setting up a system for a customer. He chooses his speakers from our store ( About 15 pair in stock on the floor, he chooses his pre-amp and source. Then we put the system together for him. This system would be placed on a HRS audio stand. This means breaking several high end systems so the customer who obviously understands this and can then create a reference point. We would also use the best cables we have to built this system. This is at least a 8 hour job. We dont want to go through the trouble without it being a serious customer. Simple. You have the option to just buy the amplifiers like any other product or purchase retail priced products that are already on demonstration which carries no charge. Simple. If you want bargain discontinued products we just have to charge for this service. there is NO PROFIT on this at all.
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