Dog help me, but this was simply an incredibly useless, pointless, depressing and endless series of exchanges...
Could Class D really be that good?
I've heard statements praising modern class D amplifiers all the time but was sort of hesitant to try. Lately, one particular model caught my eye, the Fosi V3, which costs sub $100 but is praised for having refined sound like class A/B. To fulfill my curiosity, I quickly ordered one and tried it with my Burchardt S400II and Wharfedale Linton speakers. Basically, this is a neutral sounding amp but, to my surprise, the sound is clean, open, airy, with full mids, wide soundstage, good imaging/separation, with nearly null traces of the edginess, dryness, or lean sound that traditional class D amplifiers have. The background is just as quiet as my current systems. The core is the TPA 3255 chip from TI and comes with a 32v, 5A power block, which is supposed to deliver approximately 65 watts per channel (into 8 ohms). It drives the S400II/Linton without any hesitation, as well as my 130-watt-per-channel high-current Parasound A23. Very impressive.
Measurement is not everything. However, according to the lab test results, when operated under 10-60 watts, the distortion level (THD) is below 0.003%, better than a lot of high-end (price) gears. I am going to build around it for my fourth system with upgraded op-amp and LPS. I believe it will outperform my current mid-end (price) amplifiers.
I know, I know, quite a few Audiogoners' systems are above $100k, and mentioning this kind of little giant that costs a fraction could be rather embarrassing. But I thought this is just like gold digging with a lot of surprises and fun. Don't you think?
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+1 @arafiq
@grk both these companies have been creating products for quite some time and have CURRENT products in the market. In fact I OWN the Backert Labs Rhumba. Based on a claim made here, I looked up searched the internet on "EVS Millennium DAC". A result came up on Audio Circle on the "EVS Millenium DAC" thread. It is from 16 Mar 2003, 07:42 am and the poster says - "Dacs are increasingly becoming obsolete (in my opinion)". Wow..so true in 2024...LOL!! |
The reason someone in 2003 would say that is we all wanted hi rez....and the only hi rez then was SACD and DVD-A.....and you then needed an SACD player as Sony would not allow digital out of the DSD signal. So, I started modding SACD players.....because that is what everyone wanted. Of course, when downloads started to happend and then streaming.....then DACs came back into vogue. Now there are a lot of integrated amps, streamers and powered speaker that have DACs built in but the DAC game is still alive and well. Look at the raves over the new cheap Holo and the Laiv DACs. If I were looking for a solid state amp in the under $3K range than the Purifi, Orchard, NCx500 and Nilai (stock, and of course, modded) fill the bill. However, if you want to spend twice as much, then you have the AGD Tempo and tubey dude, the Atmasphere and the Coda 5.5 to consider. I would never buy one of these amps without comparing them all. They all have rave reviews but hardly any comparisons. Most amps can be purchased with a 30 day trial.....of course, you have wait times for some amps......like the Coda. Even more expensive would be the bigger AGDs. the Merrills, the hopefully about to be released Mytek, etc......and of course, you can combine a class D amp with a tube preamp or input stage to give that tube magic. |
I don’t know how to get those results that will put my name in lights. If I did, I’d do it. The method is easy, just do double blind tests on signals that measure identically and show that people are statistically identifying them correctly as different. The method is easy. Getting the result is the hard part. As for op-amps, if you just swap different op-amps in and out of a circuit, it is not too unlikely that significant changes might occur that can be audible - and measurable. Op-amps need to be in a circuit designed for them to be transparent. So yes, it is generally agreed that if you want to tweak the sound, you have a good chance of doing so by randomly popping new op-amps into a circuit without adjusting the circuit accordingly. You may hear something you really like! |
Agreed on the audible improvements, though I'm not sure about measurable evidence, as I couldn't find any supporting data. Nevertheless, I recently swapped in an op amp called "Oracle II dual" on the Fosi V3, based on the recommendation from VirtualHiFi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDX7SCN6Jc These Oracle op amps were made in China and shipped from there, so the wait time might be a bit longer. However, they arrived earlier than expected. The build quality seems better than most cheap op amps, which often have flaky pins. The No. 1 pin, which needs to be aligned with the notch on the riser supporting the default op amp, is marked by a dot on the upper face. Ensure you have oriented it correctly. Other than that, the installation is pretty straightforward. Immediately after switching on the "new" Fosi V3, I noticed a more immersive soundstage that extends beyond my speakers, with noticeably better separation. The bass also goes a bit deeper. However, it still doesn't completely eliminate the undesirable sibilance. But, considering these are $28 op amps, I might be asking too much. The well-known Sparkos 3602 might perform better, but it costs more than what I paid for the amp. Overall, my experience with the Fosi V3, paired with the Oracle II and Wiim Pro Plus combo, is very positive. I would recommend it to anyone looking to explore low-end (pricewise) Hi-Fi gear without reservation.
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This seems like a serious thread from people who have really done a lot of work with op-amps over on ASR. Seems like there are a lot of gotchas if you don't choose and test carefully. Objective changes for the worse or better in terms of noise and distortion seem to be readily measured. Subjective preference of course is up to each listener.
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@eddnog Did you also receive two complimentary MUSES 02 op amps? It would be interesting to compare those with Sparkos... |
About a year ago Michael Fremer (who seemingly can have whatever he wants) reviewed PS Audios M1200s, class D with tube input. He kept them
Over 2 years ago I bought custom EVS 1200 dual mono based on the same ICEpower AS1200 modules, but lots of tweaks. Really excellent amp. How good it can sound depends on the rest of the system |