I admit, I fell for a scammer from Thailand, even though I was warned. It just was that it took forever to sell my Stealth cables at a give away price. These cables are awesome, but evidently not popular in the USA. I refused to send the cables to the buyer because he wanted me to declare the value at $30 USD for custom fees. So he had me direct the shipment to his friend in SoCal. Now, after UPS (and I insured the cables for $4,000 to save on shipping-my fault) delivered the package, the buyer says his friend did not sign and receive the cables! Just be aware A-Gon members, and don't be foolish like me.
While I commiserate with your experience I'm not sure you should write off a whole country. Asking for a mis-declaration of shipping value and/or shipping to a US third party are par for the course in many overseas transactions

Rather than blocking a whole country (or for that part continent) a better policy may be in future to state your overseas shipping terms i.e. "customs value will be declared at the price sold and no third party shipping"

And if UPS have a record of a signature (no matter who signed) then as far as you are concerned the cables were delivered -- I believe AudioGon (and PayPal or whomever you received payment via and shipped with) should side with you in this regard
First of all, I am warning A-Gon members to be aware of Thailand members. If this is too much for your comprehension. so be it. You have been warned, as I did not heed this warning,
I have sold gear to china, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, and most part of Asia too. You can get scammers and genuine people in all parts of the world. The same applies to the USA, EU and UK.

I was both Ripped of by David Shult the guy who runs the Modification service in the USA. I was also ripped of by Ryan Scott from Vapor Audio on both speaker transaction. I have been ripped off by USA Ebayers too on countless stuff.

Don't go around claiming the whole country is  sham to deal with. Not everyone is the same.

The point is your ripped of by an idiot that lives their. Their are idiots everywhere with no ethical practices when it comes to business.
All of these foreigners, we should nuke them (We'll save Australia, don't want to hurt no kangaroos).
Out of curiosity Talk2me, you indicate you were "warned" not to sell to folks from Thailand (" You have been warned, as I did not heed this warning,") So are we to understand that someone(s) told you that folks from Thailand are scammers? I am unsure why you don't see that some of the responders find your comments unfairly categorize people from Thailand as somehow being dishonest. My question to you would be; some of the time, most of the time or all of the time? People who are dishonest are dishonest period. Your comments seem grossly unfair nothwithstanding what happened in this transaction.
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My mama told me "Stupid is as Stupid does" ...

Anyways " Mama always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them".

Hi talk2me,

How were your warned, was there an Agon thread or by a friend not to sell to certain non U.S. countries in general?  I don't sell much but would limit it to U.S. and Canada, but that's just my personal preference.



Apart from all the vitriol that your post engendered, I am trying to figure out what exactly happened.  From what I can decipher, you sent the cables to the third party recipient in SoCal without having received payment in advance.  That's where you made your tactical error.  It is normal in these transactions for the buyer to trust the seller by paying in advance of shipment.  Obviously, all ways of doing such a transaction have pitfalls, if the buyer and seller are not honorable to begin with, but you have a reason to expect payment in advance of shipment, based on past practice on this and other similar websites and assuming you are a registered member on Audiogon.  (Your registering on Audiogon is at least a fig leaf that should make you, as seller, trustworthy, because the buyer can report you if you do not fulfill your part of the bargain.) So the take home lesson is get paid before shipping (and register on Agon, if you have not done so already).  Not "Thai people are dishonest" (or thoughts to that effect).

It's almost a separate discussion, but if you sent the cables by UPS and asked for a signature, then UPS is the responsible party for either confirming the cables were lost or that they were delivered and signed for.  You don't mention that part of the story.  Trying to get money out of UPS is like..... any number of other impossibilities.  
^First of all lewm, do you have a job? I am honored you spent so much time thinking, and writing your response. Yes, I have insurance against this scammer. But, as a warning, and I have emails o back me up from fellow members, be aware of buyers and sellers from Thailand. I asked Tammy here on help[/support before I sent the cables, and now all I get is "Sorry".

If 'friend' did not sign and receive cables, they're being returned back to you. Everything else you've said vanishes as senseless gibberish.

Lady-boys, "i was warned", Stealth cables, scammers, give away prices, friends in SoCal, something to do with Thailand -- sounds like the pitch for an Amazon original series.  If you can maintain the narrative into act 2, you could have a hit!
@lewm +1

@talk2me , did you send the cables to the third party recipient in SoCal without having received payment in advance?

If you did, got no one to blame but yourself especially an international transaction.  Doesn't matter if Thailand, UK, Hermosa Beach, CA, Germany ...
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I send container loads of Audio equipment to Thailand and have nothing but good to say about the Thai people, friendly honest and very enthusiastic about their HiFi Equipment.  Have visited there several times and always been treated with great respect.  The food is absolutely awesome too.

Good Listening


I've sold to Thailand, Hong Kong, Russia, Brazil, Italy ... without problems. There are honest and dishonest people all over the world and to make a blanket statement about Thailand is ignorant.

You were desperate and made mistakes so takes some personal responsibilitie instead of blaming a country.
So just to be clear, you sent some expensive stuff, to someone you didn't know without being paid for it first? And this makes it Thailands fault? 

I agree with you completely. I have also sold gear all over Asia. But I do believe the OP since I lived in Thailand for years. However, I cannot ever remember being scammed by anyone in Asia.

But I may note that I was ripped of by Rick Schultz of High Fidelity Cables in the US, Hegel in Norway, the UK distributor for Einstein Audio, and a number of dishonest Audiogon sellers as well as dishonest Ebay sellers. You might as well paint the whole world of high end audio as being dishonest. But, thankfully, most of the people I have done audio business with have been totally honest.

There are indeed idiots everywhere with no ethical practices when it comes to business. It is always caveat emptor -- may the buyer beware.
Got screwed 5 time, all 5 times were from USA. 4 times as a buyer and one as a seller. Only one of them was throught Audiogon, one from Canuck audio and 3 on eBay. Normal as I only buy from US and Canada.

This thread only confirms that there are scammers everywhere. There are a lot of ridiculous responses posted here. Look, the guy got ripped off and he's upset. Who wouldn't be? He's just trying to warn you so you don't repeat his experience. He admits he made mistakes, but that doesn't make him an idiot. Also, relating a story about being ripped off by someone in Thailand doesn't make him a racist!

Obviously, buying locally minimizes the risk. Cash and carry is even better. Any time a buyer wants you to ship to another address, he's likely to be a scammer. Who (normally) does that? Scammers, that's who! I thought this forum was a little higher minded than to ridicule someone about their misfortune. Maybe I was wrong.
Look, the guy got ripped off and he's upset. Who wouldn't be? 
That doesn't make his post correct.  Maybe same reason he got ripped off ... was desperate and made irrational decisions?
He's just trying to warn you so you don't repeat his experience. He admits he made mistakes, but that doesn't make him an idiot.
If warning not to be an idiot is fine but to avoid a country is irrational based on A transaction.

+1 Kinghifi,Tony this isn’t about getting "ripped off" and him being understandably upset, it’s about Thailand buyers/people are dishonest, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!! What is so hard to understand about that? The reason that this thread has as many responses as it does along with the belligerent counter responses of talk2me, example, "First of all lewm, do you have a job?" Why the hostility?

I agree with you that avoiding a country is irrational based on a transaction. 


You could say the same thing about the US or anywhere else if you got ripped off by someone from that country. In which case all countries must be avoided since every country imaginable qualifies. Your reasoning leads to that conclusion.
Actually, your reasoning is irrational , sabai.
If you ignore probability or "the odds" you are a fool .


In which case you are anticipating catastrophic consequences based on the worst possible outcome and then everyone stops trading.
So, you had a bad experience with someone in Thailand and thus, the next logical step is to issue a warning against the country as a whole?  If there's a pattern of behavior from a country's residents, I can see being more cautious when dealing with people living in that country, but we don't have that here. 
Why is Thailand worse than anywhere else? Precisely, exactly my point, the general labeling of a people/country as being intrinsically dishonest as inferred by the op, what am I not making clear? I am unclear on your point Sabai, it seems we are in general agreement at least based on your last post.

Exactly. We don't have that here.

The probability or odds that schubert talks about is a supposition that is not based on proven facts. In fact, no one can point to any country as being a culprit, as a whole. There are only individual transactions that have gone wrong -- from every country imaginable.

My point is simply that Thailand is no worse than anywhere else.
Thanks Sabai, I totally agree but apparently was unclear in my first response, oh well.
Why is rather obvious , one of the many places with few laws on fraud et al and you have no access to them in any event . 
Do laws make a country free of fraud? What about countries with lots of fraud laws on the books that are still rampant with fraud? In any case, how would a law on fraud protect you from a dishonest audio seller -- in any country? What are you going to do? Take them to court?

With all the laws on fraud in the US, I have been ripped off more times by Americans than by any others. I think we can all come up with a few instances of obvious fraud in the public sector to debunk the notion that laws on fraud protect anyone -- in any area of life.

Regarding audio, the contrary also applies. Just because a country has inadequate fraud protection does not mean that an audio transaction will automatically go bad. I have done lots of audio business with Thailand without a single problem. In the end, it is the individual who makes a transaction go right or wrong, not the law. 
+1 Sabai This reminds me of the nonsensical comments people make about not buying gear from certain countries because they had a bad experience therefore everything made there must be junk. 

Blanket statements are completley ignorant.

I agree with you completely. I have lived in 9 countries and now reside abroad. There are bad and good people everywhere. Country of origin is a predictor of nothing at all -- except racism on the part of those who want make one country look bad -- or worse than others.