everything sounded great until the upgrade

One thing to double check when switching out gear is to make sure everything is in phase. I know that’s pretty basic like, “is it plugged in” but that’s the starting point. Make sure your connections didn’t get crossed.

Here in Asheville, it's like getting 2 birds stoned at once. ;)

The caps are dry there are sitting in jamicon caps, Chinese grap.

Take them out and put mundorf i did it last month and you dont know whats happend.

For shure that it is the problem the caps are super dry if you shake the amp maybe you can hear it.

@grislybutter    Why didn't you try the amp in your system before laying down your bread?

It's incredible how many people here buy upgrades without listening to them.  It's little use listening at the dealer in his system unless he can replicate yours or you take your kit in and set it up.  Even then the rooms are different.

No dealer of any worth will refuse to lend equipment to loyal customers.

Just do class A with some Tannoys and get off merry go round.

One basic item that would have an impact and provide the sound you describe. Make sure that you observe correct polarity on both speakers, + to + and - to - It is an easy mistake to make sometimes. Double check.

Another vote for a separate DAC. Wife killings only last a few days, good audio is forever! It seems complicated at first to find something that you think will be the right fit. If you live in the sticks like I do it's even more difficult. Decide your source(s), Learn about sampling rates. If you think you will be happy with CD quality, 44.1 and that's as far as you want to go then you only need to find a DAC that can perform that operation well. No need for DSD capabilities if you'll never use DSD. If you think you'll want to stream hi-res at some point then get something that can do that. Start looking at used gear sites such as Audiogon and US AudioMart to see what's up for grabs in your budget. Read as many reviews on each item as possible to get a flavor. Spend as much as you can reasonably afford.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but is it a possibility some caps or something else is worn in the 3.2? Pretty old piece. Play some pink noise and see if both channels sound the same. 
 

I thought especially older MF were known as being pretty easy to listen to. Love my A1008 which is 2009ish I believe. 

You never stated the name of the new amp, the old amp and your system.

...and 'offing the wife' seems a bit extreme, dadork....

Just sayin'....;)

@grislybutter now with your more revealing amplifier in play, and sources in review by you, one other thought will drive some silly. I will ask anyhow. Its likely I missed it, and apologize if so...  What interconnect RCA cables are you using now (brand/model/length) between your phono or CD player to your A3.2 integrated today?

overall feedback processing notes: just like with anything: learning a little reveals how little I knew and how much I thought I knew! Some of the advices are scary, I should not remove the cover and tweak this thing, that never ended well for me. (As a kid I took apart a lot of alarm clocks, none I was able to put back together, (I am a theoretical guy)

@decooney absolutely! You know me by now. My current RCA is crap, something that came 15 years ago with a $20 cd player. I ordered a cable from Amazon last night for $35, I was too embarrassed to ask here. May suck but will still be better than these.

@asvjerry I started it, @dadork is the second in line to be visited by the FBI with a warrant.in case of an incident

@mofojo first time I heard pink noise :)

@clearthinker right! It’s used, no returns, brother’s advice that I always trust. Little prick.... he got me!

my little prick brother got back to me, he is just probably reading the forum,

He says:

• CD input is likely crap, and next to phono which is suspect, try any other input
• get a DAC (a$$hole!) but maybe I will get away with
• a decent RCA cable https://tinyurl.com/fzj48ccn

Update: CD input IS crap, aux1 is times better

grislybutter, your “little prick brother” beat me to the point I wanted to make. Since you say the phono sounds good and CD sound is poor, I was sure your issue is in the digital signal path. A separate DAC, imho, can eliminate the discrepancy assuming the CD player has an acceptable transport, digital out, and decent interconnects and power cords are in use. How much better depends in large part on budget. You seem to already have discovered an easy improvement by using a different input…good move and good luck.

@scowler1 thank you :)

@audioguy85

Just do class A with some Tannoys and get off merry go round.

Good advice but you know what we audiophiles are like.

Only sheer exhaustion after many futile years of trying in vain can finally convince us.

I’ve not upgraded my speakers for over 10 years but not for want of trying.

Damn, those Tannoys are hard to beat!

I own musical fidelity m6si amplifier it’s paired with dynaudio special forty’s it sounds great.Give it time for the amplifier to break in.

@cd318 I don't like the Tannoy looks, but it's actually good because I couldn't afford them anyway.

@bigmac1963 Sweet Special Forties :) I love those 

The 'not so merry' go'round.....'Rulley....

Chasing SOTA reminds of desire for the woman that's out of your league...

If you do happen to connect, it's a dice toss whether the relationship has legs, mostly yours. *L*

I had an older prick bro' that infected me with audiodementia.....then fell out of it.
Still was running an ancient H-K integrated last I saw in his living room, don't suspect he was aware of 'tube rolling' other than perhaps replacements for blown ones...

...played Enya at his funeral....

I was surprised, and amused.

😁😉😊

I like your asvjerry

It remind me of the posts of the banned oldmechanic...

I hope you will not be banned...

I should not have started with the implications of domestic dispute over audio gear. But I must not have been the first one on this forum worried about the happy wife-sweet sounding system balance

@mahgister , *wry G* our AG Overlords didn't agree with you on one obviously deleted post...didn't approve of an 'edgy' turn of thought over SAF v. implied demise apparently.

Oh, well.... even great chefs occasionally 'bomb' a dish, so if I dish a bomb there's those who clean up after us....*shrug*  And send the "...stop that *bitch slap* " email over it.  Their forum, their rules, their oversight; trip up, clean up act until the next infraction....

I make no claims on perfection, in life nor audio.

Happily, my spouse enjoys my audio activities overall.  And as long as there's one system that she can 'light up' without a pre-flight checklist, she's good to go. *S*

But thanks for the OHMec reference...I lack his past, but can aspire to create an echo or 3 in the void left behind.  Nobody likes everybody all of the time, and I certainly am an example of that simple fact.
Nor strive to be vanilla in a rocky road world, not in this DNA slushy....

Like most, holding a mental breath to see if one man decides to become the most hated fool on the planet over a desire to further waste lives and real estate.
Politics aside, there's a nastier end game awaiting if we don't start acting like one species v. tattered tribes tormenting each other...

Thanks again.... ;)

at 1:06 AM EDT 5.1.22, I wish y'all a happy May Day and give up on 'this' day...

'Ciao, J

Like most, holding a mental breath to see if one man decides to become the most hated fool on the planet over a desire to further waste lives and real estate.
Politics aside, there's a nastier end game awaiting if we don't start acting like one species v. tattered tribes tormenting each other...

You are very grounded on earth...

My deepest respect....

I would have said "that's dark" a few years ago but in the sci-fi we live in, reason can be a pleasant surprise :)

It could be that a new very good component now shows up how relatively poor the others are. This is common and if not careful leads you down the never ending audio rabbit hole. You buy better speakers, better speakers now need better amp, better amp now needs better DAC, better DAC now needs better source, all done, NIRVANA, no the old speakers are now the weakest link. You buy new speakers but ++++++++. Toe out of speakers means your ears and the extremely directional tweeters are not aligned, this can make speakers sound less bright.

@henry53 

except that I need to stick with my speakers and test other options, cables, DAC, smaller improvements. I received so many great suggestions, I am still playing with my system ,

Without knowing, it may in fact be that "X" sucks is your problem... impossible absent data.

But keeping it simple - you liked amp A, you dislike amp B.  What's the question?

Amp synergy is not usually a huge deal unless either the speakers or amp or both are way out on some extreme - which in most cases means flawed.

You will also hear "its break in".  Uh, not in extreme. As a professional designer do you know how many new and cold things i hear? Sure they sound better warm. But they don't sound bad cold....unless they are in fact bad.

Why did you buy something without hearing it first?  All the pointless bickering here aside, that's what matters - where the eardrums meet the air

I am afraid to upgrade, i dont need it, i dont want it, but i am also afraid to do it...

I already have a good synergy, for reason of S.Q./ price ratio , i cannot upgrade my 50 bucks top of the line Mission speakers nor my low cost dac marvel, then the amplifier?

I own 2 Sansui amplifier because i loved it so much...

Upgrade may be useless when you are in acoustic love.....

I am afraid to upgrade like someone afraid to lose his wife or trade her....

In spite of what most think , some minimal quality threshold being passed over by the gear, the electronical design change is less impactful on listening test than acoustic and psycho-acoustic change in the speakers/room relation...

A difference is not always or  so often than people think, a great acoustical improvement...

This is the information lacking in all audio threads...

Check it...

wine improves all systems.

wine improves all systems.

With the empty bottle you can use a straw for the neck and experimenting with a primitive Helmholtz resonators...

I begin my first one like this...  😁😊

If you liked the sound of your modest system.....that bis all that counts.

I had MF M6i (before built-in phono stage si model) and Revel F32 speakers sounded great with it. Also, if using the built-in DAC, I suggest buying a stand alone DAC. Built-in DAC is weak link and Ayre QB-9 sounded amazing with my MF M6i. IMO, Musical Fidelity is very good. M series much better than A series (M series replaced) and more w/ch achieve better sound with MF gear. If I did not swap SS for tubes, I probably would still have the MF M6i.

I would suggest seeking new cables with larger diameter conductors. Synergy between the components in the modest system was probably achieved. Changing the component requires adjustments.

With Interconnect and speaker cables and any conductors in the components themselves (traces on the PCB, internal wiring), at least in the audio spectrum,  a larger conductor will yield more emphasis on the low end of the spectrum and a smaller conductor will yield more emphasis on the  higher end of the spectrum. The sum of the signal path, the matching of all the component should amount to an audio balance that fits your taste.

Maybe the internal wiring of your two amps are of different size and yield different tonal response (high end or low end emphasis). If you can manage to identify the diameter of the isolated conductor in your IC and /or speaker cables, You could try to other IC and/or speaker cables with larger conductors to get back to the tonal response you had with your previous amp.

For instance Duelund offers relatively inexpensive hock up wires of different gauges and compositions, It would be interesting to try them if you can put together the IC or have some one do it for you.   From there you may find the gauge or wire that will make your system synergistic again.

@itsjustme 

Why did you buy something without hearing it first? 

Because it's used, can't hear it anywhere

@mahgister 

design change is less impactful on listening test than acoustic and psycho-acoustic change in the speakers/room relation

Right. But when my room is a given, not many options in placement, my main variables are components and cables - as I stick to the speakers

1 week update:

the sound from the MF A3.2 is definitely different. I noticed that different types of music sounds good with it, and so I changed what I listen to, all the instruments are brighter, more forward, vocals less harsh, less punchy.

haven’t gotten a DAC yet, but I certainly appreciate the experience and the quality, It does bring out recording flaws, which - given my selection of 60s-80s mostly - is a pain, because recording back then was less than perfect (but also, some were tweaked until it sounded best)

Playing LPs is much more fun now. (need a new cartridge, then a new turntable, then I will find my suitcase on the driveway)

thank you all! As much as I often find some of you arrogant and egoistic pricks, most of you are awesome: generous, helpful and knowledgeable! :)

@felixa 

I need you to explain this to me via zoom!

No need to ever turn the amp off unless you are plugging or unplugging cables. Just make sure you turn down the volume when you turn  your source on or off. Eliminates warm up time and sounds even better after beiding played for a little while.

grislybutter

One thing I wanted to mention as an ex-cd player person - I ripped all my cd to FLAC and now it is all on a USB drive.  This means you don't need a new CD player and it saves space.  Many streamers/dacs can play the digital files directly.  You can then also rip new cds as needed, or buy digital music song by song.  I liked this path because it preserves my existing collection and allowed me to phase into high res and single song purchases.  Something to think about if your CD is the problem and the money you would use for the CD player can be used for a file player dac or streamer.  I have been looking at hi fi rose, but it is expensive, but maybe other options exist.  Good luck. 

@12many 

That's a reasonable path, I find CDs becoming a pain, a clutter. Not that LPs don't take up space. So it doesn't matter where I store it, if it connects to a DAC, that's all I need?

@grislybutter

I am not sure about the equipment.  For a while I had a USB memory stick plugged into the back of an AV receiver.  I also use the USB output (from a computer) with a USB cable into a DAC and from the dac to the amp.  I am transitioning to a new system (I had old not great stuff before) and looking at the HIFI rose and liked that it would stream with Qobuz (sp?) and also could load my FLAC files into it somehow (now quite sure).  Thanks can be complicated now but my plan is go Streamer (to DAC inside streamer) to amp to speakers to try to be simple.  I have been saving for years.  

You don’t give much info. 
 

new electronics can take several weeks worth of continuous music playing to break in. Until break in completes sound can be thin compressed and lacking in warmth and bass. 
 

if you have passed the point of break it you may have a bad match. 

I'd agree with a lot of the comments here. Listen to it casually for several weeks to let the amp settle in and for you to get use to the sound. Then you can begin to decide on what needs improvement.

A good high quality DAC would solve your harsh CD sound. You could use your existing CD player as a transport if it has some kind of digital out (optical, coax, etc.)

Before I knew about DACs (circa last year), I thought that was just how all digital sources sounded - harsh and bright. Early this year, I bought a Chord Qutest DAC, and now the vinyl upgrades have taken a backseat to the digital upgrades.

Don't forgo high quality cables if you're going this route - not to trigger, cable deniers, but for me it was the difference between really good and transformative.

I hadn't plan to spend as much as I did, but after the fact I found it to be money well spent.

You don't say what amp. you have so it is difficult to comment. Have you somehow changed a "gain" setting somewhere in your system that could be affecting how aggressive and unpleasant it now sounds? 

It appears you liked the sound of your previous amp.  Perhaps sell the amp and replace your CD player with a really nice streamer.  I have an OPPO 105 and no longer use it.  Who wants to get up to change a CD?  I like also my huge library and easy access using Tidal.

Let the new amp break in, sometimes it takes weeks. Never turn it off.

Try an outboard DAC with a tube output buffer.

My Amp doesn't even have an on/off, switch,same said for my pre-amp and Phono amp.

Turing your gear off and on just kills it's life span and doesn't help the sound. I work in broadcast with gear costing  thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and it all stays on till it fails.

Give it time, you could end up all right.

There are also a ton of inexpensive tweaks that can make a huge difference too. 

Just putting 4 McCormack Tip Toes under my old Conrad Johnson turned  a very good amp into a sumptuous sounding piece of gear.

HiFI tuning / Synergistic fuse to replace the main power fuse, better power cord and AC outlet ( even just Green Dot hospital grade AC cord/outlet) etc are all reasonably priced add on's that can make a big difference.

Don't chuck the amp out yet.

Hope some of these things will help!

@grossman616 

Yes! Very helpful! However, should I really not turn it off? Ever? Doesn't it wear it out?

If it is solid state amp leave it on for a week or two, listen to it or not, at the end of the 2 weeks, if you don't like it sell it and get something else. Don't try to make gear sound how you like it, buy gear and keep gear YOU think sounds good.