Great network streamers with only USB outputs

I wouldn't even consider a converter.

I don't like sonore because it involves convertes to go back and forth to optical.

I assume your bel canto supports AES/EBU?  I have a grimm streamer that excels using AES/EBU.

I think it is foolish to build an expensive DAC that doesn't support usb, but I guess Bel disagrees with me.

Jerry

The Innuos Pulse outputs AES, RCA SPDIF and USB. I have not listened to one however Innuos does fine work. Previous owner of Innuos Zenith Mk3, current owner of Grimm Mu1. Best wishes.

The Bryston BDP-3 can function as a Squeeze Slave and has AES/EBU and S/PDIF out. I have the Bryston BDP-Pi functioning as a ROON endpoint and it works great for that , small footprint as well. I have never tried the Squeeze...

BDP-3 also has Squeezelight capability but again I have no idea on functionality.

bdp-3 manual

I don't know about most, but here's a good example with S/PDIF as well as USB outputs.

Keep in mind that USB has better jitter and also much higher bandwidth than S/PDIF.  If you are happy with your DAC and it's high rez capabilities then that shouldn't matter to you, but if you want to stream high resolution DSD for instance that will need USB.

If your streamer only outputs USB you have the option to connect the USB to a DDC, which would allow various options for outputs to your DAC and which may also improve the signal going to the DAC.  Here is one of the many options.

@erik_squires 

I don't know about most, but here's a good example with S/PDIF as well as USBoutputs.

Keep in mind that USB has better jitter and also much higher bandwidth than S/PDIF.  If you are happy with your DAC and it's high rez capabilities then that shouldn't matter to you, but if you want to stream high resolution DSD for instance that will need USB.

RE:Jitter...with Spdif since the clocking is performed at the source rather than the dac, would it be more accurate to say that jitter depends on the quality of the clock at the source if using spdif or at the dac if using usb?

@ghasley - Kind of.  I'd say rather that with S/PDIF:

Final Jitter >= Streamer Jitter > DAC Jitter

Generally speaking, the best jitter performance comes from excellent clocks which are cozied up to the DAC chip, with very short traces so it's nearly impossible for a streamer to equal the performance of a DAC with a excellent jitter performance.

Having said this, we may be splitting hairs as jitter performance is overall just so much better than the first days of the CD.

all 432evo servers can run lms or Roon natively and are usb based servers

they sound amazing and are upgradable.

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ

432evo dealer

@carlsbad2 I hear you on Bel Canto not building DACs with USB, but it seems they are in the practice now.

As I looked into the Sonore Rendu... So many boxes needing power supplies. Doesn't take long to get the price tag past $2500.

I've heard amazing things about Grimm MU1 streamer, but that is a major jump up in price.

@tvad Thanks, but I'm not sure they all use a squeezebox interface. The main reason I'm sticking with LMS end point is , its a nice open source ecosystem. It's been around for over a decade and it's always being updated.

@tvad Yes I know that. Pulse Mini seems more affordable than Pulse, but without linear power supply. I like that Innuos lets you use Squeezebox interface and easily flip over to their own Sense app, which I hear is very good. Just haven't heard that its a huge step up from my Transporter for the price. I found someone selling Pulsemini + Linear power supply for $1400usd. Again feeling like its a lateral move right now. I'm trying to dig down on this....

Anyone understand the Sonore stuff ??

Would I be able to run Squeezelite on Sonore Signature Series Ethernet to Spdif Render ? I can handle tech, but ZI have to admit I'm starting to get confused, that is why I've looked at Innuos.

@tvad Wow, you have had the gamut of streamers. Lots of those streamers are next level pricing, except for the Rendu and Innuos. Thanks so much for your insight.

I'm thinking my budget is around $1500-$2000usd

Auralic and most streamers really can use LMS it's UPNP and most streamers are compatible with that. That said you never know you may find a streamers app better I personally love the Auralic LDS app. I did use LMS back in the day with my old Squeezebox and it was just fine.

I'm thinking my budget is around $1500-$2000usd

BDP-3 on USAM for just shy of $2K.

Found a Antipodes with 4TB ssd streamer in my price range. Company seems to have a good rep.

Antipodes is about as good as it gets. I have a CX which is USB only but I believe some of their models have multiple outlets. Which model are you looking at? Incidentally they have the best customer support bar none.

@mazian I'm lookin' at the DS-3 with upgraded 4TB SSD drives. I think it has a SPDIF output also. Can't find many reviews online.

The DS3 is an early model, pre 2017 I think and according to the website has analogue output as well as USB. I assume that means SPDIF. I haven't seen a review but I would bet if it is Antipodes it will be pretty good but it depends on the asking price if it is good value. Hi Fi Shark should give you some idea about value.

@mazian  Appears to only have USB out on it. Perhaps it would be worth get a USB converter.

Have you looked @ the Bel Canto Stream 2?  The Seek app is great and the outputs are all there and it would mate with your 3.7 like a champ.  I run one into a DAC 2.8 via AES and could not be happier.  I switch between Roon and the Seek app and the vtuner integration in Seek is great as well.

I have a Innuos zenith mk3 connected to Gustard X26 PRO via USB. The Gustard RR and A26 models also have USB. Excellent simple connection.

@tvad Always had the Holo Red in my mind. decent price, great reviews.

@ivickery I looked into the Bel Canto OS (Seek) didn't interest me.

I'm looking into using a Bryston BUC-1 - USB-Spdif/AES/BNC converter.

Not ideal, but probably won't gegrade signal much.

I like your DAC especially if you have the VBS power supply. The likely potential for a sonic upgrade and their excellent Sense app would point me toward Innuos. Either a used Zen Mk3 or a Pulse Mini with something like a Teddy Pardo LPS paired with a Denafrips Iris DDC would be the way I’d go. Either combo would cost around $2500, and the Iris may add further benefits in terms of additional noise reduction. Just my $0.02 FWIW, and best of luck.

Update:

I've purchased a Antipodes DS-3 recently upgraded by the company in 2020 with 4TB SSD drives among other things. This unit does have a Spdif output, despite the company suggesting to use USB.

I paid $550usd + S booster linear power supply $185usd

The seller told me it sounds great using LMS, better than Roon end point.

Antipodes has a very robust support team. They will walk you through everything as you navigate the system.

This company has a great reputation, I'm extremely happy to have got this for a decent price.

I wasn't even looking for storage space, let alone 4TB worth.

I'll follow up with sound. I'm receiving it tomorrow.

Congrats!  I’m sure it’ll sound great but looking forward to your impressions. 

You got a bargain. I'm sure you will enjoy.

@soix btw Soix, I have the most updated version of Bel Canto 3.7 power supply. I got it upgraded from the VBS1 to a VBL(Linear). I lost the 3 connections for only one, didn't need a 3 connection setup. Dac also go a reference upgrade, I couldn't afford the "Statement" upgrade.

All modified by ACE Tomato (formerly of Bel Canto) He has been a blessing to me. Honest tech.

I had a Signature Optical Rendu Se and my unit had only USB but I believe newest model has added a port, like maybe AES but unsure. In any case, I LOVED Sonore and it does support Squeeze, of which I am a huge fan even though I had a lifetime sub for Roon. Incomparable . The support for Squeeze and at the time my SGC was just OK (lousy GUI). So I moved to Antipodes which allocates great resources in support of Squeeze. But I can recommend Sonore for sure at a "moderate" price point relative to others. 

@krell_fan1 , thanks Krell, I'm into the Antipodes world of streaming/Servers.

This is such a beautiful unit. I was fortunate to get it in mint condition. all the original boxes and paperwork.

Still in the learning process, but thankfully Antipodes has excellent support.

Sorry, @bunkertoy I hadn’t noticed you’d bought into the Antipodes ecosystem. Yes, company offers superb support. And they’re genuinely good people. I’ve met both Mark Cole and the owner Mark Jenkins. And many people have no idea how much better sounding Squeeze is than Roon. That’s why they pour so many resources into it. And it’s precisely why I passed on Grimm. Roon only. I love Roon for the GUI but use it mainly on Friday to scope out new Qobuz selections and save those I like as favorites. 
As an FYI, Mark Cole (COO) and I both have the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC and prefer AES. I’m using Cerious Tech Lumniscate which I highly recommend. Superb. Have all their power cords too. 

Cheers, 

I’m hoping to get to know the staff at Antipodes. I’m having issues...... Unlike many companies, I was able to book an appt with Antipodes. Talk about next level...

cheers

Even though there was some push back upthread about USB to SPDIF converters, I would encourage you to look into those. Many pro reviewers have had big success with them and some, like the 6moons guy, state they have yet to find any situation where a good USB to SPDIF device does not bring improvement. 

The good part is that it's relatively affordable to try one and you don't have to change any of your other components. 

I agree with @v-fi about USB converters such as this one from Sonore, and don’t forget about DDC choices like the one from Singxer I linked in my earlier post, or several offered by Denafrips, or even the Holo Audio Red, which is both a capable DDC and a network streamer.

@mitch2 @v-fi , I didn't find a few of USB converters for sale. Bryston BUC and 2 Bel Canto converters, ULink & RefLink

Just put it on hold for now. I'll ask about this with the tech from Antipodes tonight.

@bunkertoy - I am not familiar with the converters you listed.  I gave you three recommendations:

1. Sonore ultraDigital, converter only, $499
2. Singxer SU-6, DDC and converter, $748 (from Kitsune Hi-Fi)
3. HoloAudio Red, converter, DDC, and streamer, $798

Good Luck

I think the Singxer is probably the best one mentioned, with the Holo being very close behind. The Bryston and Bel Canto stuff is just mediocre, not great imho. 

In my chain, I use USB from the source to feed a Gustard U18 DDC, which then feeds my DAC (Musician Draco) via I2S. The results have been phenomenal, definitely an improvement over going directly to the DAC via USB, and also better than going straight to the DAC from my source via coax S/PDIF.

I highly recommend the DDC as well.

-Ed

I suspect anyone who craps on USB-SPDIF converters in general has never used one.

I feel like less in the chain is best. I'm going Spdif out of the Antipodes directly to my Bel Canto DAC. I really don't think my ears will pick up on the differences I'm getting from my Server/Streamer. I'm trying to keep the music chain a streamlined as possible.

I agree it makes sense to streamline the music chain but my recent experience is different. 

From an Innuos Statement to LampizatOr Goldengate3 the direct USB with a FTA Sinope USB is way inferior to Innuos Ethernet > Sonore Opticalmodule > Fiber > Sonore Signature Rendu SE > Sinope USB > Antipodes S20 > S/PDIF to LampizatOr.

That's a lot of conversions going on but it makes it magical beyond words.  I was using an UltraRendu instead of the SignatureRendu SE/fiber up until this week and that beat the direct USB by a fair margin.  Swapping in the SignatureRendu is a game changer. 

Can the 432EVO Aeon rip SACD's?