At the $200/pair price point new or used, how does GH ZX+ cables compare to others like Greg Straley Reality cables, Gabriel gold (GG) revelation/raptures and alike...
I am looking for a cable that is neutral, and does not act as a filter in any way to highlight a certain portion of the music. From top to bottom it must allow the source material to come through..
This
response is nine months late for poster aberyclark. You ask about
differences in sound between the EX series and the Empress. Not exactly
what you want but a detailed review of the Zx+ and the first iteration
of the Empress is available on the Steve Hoffman Forum. Search for
"Grover at it again! GROVER ULTIMATE REFERENCE cables are ready..." See
pages 36 to 42 for an exhaustive evaluation.
Since that review,
as noted above by poster fleschler, some thoughts on the latest Empress
were added to that thread. The lower capacitance, I personally can
attest had a significant impact on my system. It is all that poster
fleschler said. I have yet to upgrade the other older Empress ICs in my
system due to cost. One day.
I am Grover’s cable tester. I have several high end systems. I have been through nearly 100 versions of cable, mostly unmarketed. I disliked his 2004 Empress Cable made with a partner. I disliked most of his early trials during the 2000-2010 period as well. Grover retained his parented cable design and wire manufacturing but kept adding more ingredients such as superlative tri-metal shielding covered with a copperwire mesh shield and his own manufactured IC connectors of 20 micron silver over pure copper.
The original ZX cable was good for the price but I felt was to forward and bright. Since then he improved it twice ZX+ and ZX dot dot. In 2015, he made the EX/EX+ cable. In 2016, he arrived at the Empress line. His three versions include a subtle change in one of the positive wires (silver to copper) and then his current cable which reduced the capacitance by 50% (teflon sleeve over the positive wires only). He brought his EX and Empress wires to the L.A. shows in 2015 and 2016 and had fantastic results replacing several systems with just the I.C.s.
Although I paid for all the cables, I retain all the EX cables and Empress cable models because they are all excellent. I use his latest Empress on my two high end audio only systems and the prior Empress cables on my two video systems with EX+ cables on computer speakers. Sabai has no idea how good the Empress cables sound on a wide variety of high end systems.
As to his power cables, even his earlier SX and ZX cables are excellent. The EX and Empress power cables are outstanding bargains, better than so many high end power cables tested.
There is so much proprietary technology that goes into manufacturing the Grover cables which are hand assembled that I doubt any other manufacturer would do the same. His parented wires are individually pulled through two steel cylinders to flatten, polish and create the embossed zig-zag pattern to eliminate skin effect. No one else does this. His site shows the basics on the cable but there is more which Sabai does not know about that Grover discovered. http://www.groverhuffman.com/home
I receive no enumeration for promoting what I find to be the best bargain in high end cables.
(Audio society review.) It was recommended not to send a digital connection for review because the Grover Hoffman punished everything they threw at.
Well, there were three of us seasoned vets and one novice. Starting with the digital cable. It was compared to a DH Labs BL-1, Black Cat Veloce', and a Grover Huffman. It was unanimous that your cable was fuller, smoother and more dynamic. A hands down winner. Next are the power cables, Their signature are the hardest to ascertain. My system was 3 DCCA's on the front end and a pair of VH Audio flavor 4 on the power amps. Put the first set of PC's that you reccomended on the CD player and the DAC. Noticed a very slight increase in punch but very little if any other changes. Which is saying a lot for your cables. Then put the Magenta pair on the power amps. "More detail" and "light footed" were the original comments. However as the evening progressed and a swap back and forth once again, your PC's were preferred. With the limited time with the PC's, no noticeable shortcomings have shone thru yet. Good dynamics, good detail, no noticeable smear, good bass, seems like good set of PC"s. Further listening may show some anomaly's but at this they are good. On to the speaker cables. I had warned you that they were up against some stiff competition. While not a very fair contest comparing a (retail) $3200 cable against your's, still all in all yours held up respectabaly. The Silnote was more detailed and holographic, yours a little recessed with a very slight veil. We did not compare them to any other cables at this time but all of us felt that for the price they are a no brainer. Anyone looking at speaker cables under $1000 should definitely check these out. I am interested in purchasing the 4 PC"s and the digital cable. Please shoot me some pricing on those Audio Envy cables. Also interested in trying out some of your interconnects. Job well done.
I ignored Sabai (on this forum issue) and bought Grover's interconnects and speaker cables, and he advised me to use some silver wire jumpers rather than biwire my 2-way speakers, which he made for a very reasonable price. They are all broken in now and sound great. I really like the clarity and directness of his cables, compared to my form MIT Tube Terminator loom. Grover's advice and professionalism were excellent. Highly recommended.
I agree with you. It is all about system synergy. But, IMO, cables choices can be as critical as component choices in the overall picture. It depends on the system and the component. Also, room treatments can be very important in the overall picture. IMO, it all adds up to system dependence.
Hi Sabai, I tried and owned HiDiamond P4, Shunyata Alpha Digital, Alpha HC, Sigma HC, High Fidelity CT-1, etc. None trounces others with the way you're suggesting here - night and day differences and the inferior one is trash material. Each have their own strengths and weaknesses and depending on the component you put them on, the characteristics may differ as well. At this price point for the cables mentioned above - higher than entry level by a couple of folds but may be a step or two below reference level - they are all good performers in their own right. Some maybe better than others on more parameters but it rarely comes without a weakness, at least IME. I prefer CT-1 over Sigma HC in my main system, but on my second system, even Alpha HC or Hidiamond P4 brings out equal level of satisfaction that I get with CT-1. It is almost always about system synergy and power cables are one of the hardest to do comparison in this hobby and for you to discredit a lot of cables manufacturers like the way you do is very disrespectful and TBH not really doing yourself a good favor either (although I do agree that there are as many shrill cable manufacturers as there are genuine ones). NOTE: I did try Grover power cables, ICs and speaker cables a long time ago (cannot remember the model), I felt they were good for the price, but I had moved on from them for a reason I do not remember. If given a chance, I'd like to try the latest. But I'm not like you. As much as I know cables are important, I am a believer (also IME) in that once you address your system to a certain level of cabling, spending more on component change still gives bigger performance leap than spending more on cables.
You cannot believe I am still "carrying on"? What's to believe? I am simply "carrying on" the conversation from a while back where I promised to provide the evidence I was referring to. I don't believe it is astonishing that I am following through on my promise -- although I did get sidetracking by business matters. It might be astonishing if I did not.
Please note that this matter has nothing to do with my opinions. It has to do with Grover Huffman "co-opting" my idea for his cables. The facts are clear. That's what he did. I do not believe that pointing out a few simple facts is cause for consternation. This is an audio forum -- not an audio grand jury.
Now, regarding my opinions about Grover Huffman cables, I have stated in the past that, IMO, they are good value for the money -- but no more than that. And this applies equally to many other cables I have had in my system over the years -- from Synergistic Research, Cardas, Kemper, ASI Liveline, Gabriel Gold, Pangea and HiDiamond, among others. I do not dispute that Grover Huffman cables sound good in your system and in the systems of many others. They are a good match for many systems. But, in my system, they do not come anywhere near the cables I am now using from Shunyata that offer the best bang for the audio buck I have ever heard. I paid less than $1000 for each cable so we are not talking some stratospheric price.
IMO, there is no case to close because there is no "case". There are simply different strokes for different folks.
Sabai, Just give it up! You are relentless, I can't believe you are still carrying on, we get it, you have a grudge and your opinions are biased as such.
These experienced ears (and many others in this thread) are happy to report that Huffman cables sound great! Case closed.
Regarding Grover Huffman co-opting my cable design, I note that he felt it necessary to deny he was co-opting Michael Wolff's cable design when they were partners. Since I live overseas and have no recourse and no leverage he obviously felt free to do as he pleased with my design without my prior knowledge and without my consent.
I have been side-tracked in recent months by business affairs and clean forgot to post this information. Here it is from our email exchanges in June 2013:
Grover Huffman:
"I'm coating everything with carbon, nickel, and xxxx (my design suggestion to Grover for changing his conductors). I got submicron xxxx dust to use with the submicron carbon and nickel dust. The cables are incredible. I'll add a mini mag and see what happens."
My reply:
"Ahhh, I understand now. You're already giving them the xxxx treatment. I am not surprised the results are good. I have never had bad results with xxxx. Whereas magnets can be overdone or underdone."
Grover Huffman:
"Already am coating them with carbon nickel, and xxxx. Works wonderfully. The nickel and xxxx are very compatible and add to each other."
You may note that my response to this news from Grover was neutral, muted. It took me by complete surprise -- needless to say. Not the kind of ethics I can do business with -- which is why I began to withdraw from our partnership.
Although Grover may be a fine fellow personally he cultivates a self image and and projects an image that may vary from reality. Please note that I am not singling him out in this respect. He is not alone. Many cable makers and, indeed many people not in the cable business, do the very same thing to get through the day.
The only changes I have made in the last while are room treatments -- some additions and some placement changes. The only components I have changed in the past 2 years are my PS Audio DS DirectStream DAC and my Shunyata Triton power conditioner. My words make you dizzy? Thanks for this compliment. Much appreciated.
Sabai,with "Things change" not only wire your intire system is changing,so are you chasing the rabbit on ever aspect of your system, which is not a small number .When do you find time to listen to music,your words make me dizzy im going to listen to some music
Long time fan of Grover's cables here. Not sure what marketing Bravado Sabai is referring to. . .Grover does zero marketing that I'm aware of. Just a lot of satisfied ears touting their praise.
When I look back to the days when I had Huffman cables in my system it's embarrassing reading my enthusiasm and effusiveness. This also goes for my enthusiasm for Synergistic Research cables and HiDiamond cables, among others. Things change. What sounded great yesterday is often relegated to the audio archives tomorrow.
As I have stated earlier on the Huffman thread, IMO Huffman cables are indeed good value for the money, but no more than that -- in spite of the cheerleaders and the marketing bravado. We see this sort of thing month in and month out, year in and year out on the forum. In the past I have been guilty of embarrassing exuberance (in retrospect) on behalf of a number of cable makers. No more.
Grover Cables. I love 'em. I've run his IC's and speaker cable for years after trying this, that, and the other thing. Huffman cables enable me to turn my all tube system on and simply listen to music and never think about wires.
With his generous trial period what's to lose?
During that time, all those "flavor of the week guys" will have tried umpteen different cables and all their rants and raves will be very old news indeed, and their wallets much thinner.
Jmcgrogan2 I hear what you are saying about Virtual Dynamics stage, It was more left to right pan with a wide image that didn't have much depth to it... I think you should really give the Grovers a shot. I keep calling them technical cables, one of the reasons being the "3 dimensional presentation" you are looking for. I wouldn't call the presentation mid-hall, maybe a few rows up but the depth of the stage brings you back to (I guess you could say) MID-HALL.
I know you didn't mention anything about the low end but after listing to the Grovers your further priority's just might change. You will be craving more....
Matt, I do not own any Virtual Dynamics cables or power cords any more. I have in the past, but I found their presentation to be much too forward for my tastes. They do have a nice tonal balance, and excellent dynamics, but I do not care for a large, flat, 2 dimensional soundstage that places me in the front row. I do know many who enjoy this type of excitement though. I prefer a more laid back, 3 dimensional presentation, more like a mid hall perspective. I never heard the Genesis though. Revelation Signature was about as far up the VD line as I went.
Currently, I am using KCI Silkworm+ interconnects with Stealth Hybrid MLT speaker cables. Power cords are Elrod EPS-3S/2S, and RSA HZ Crown Jewel.
Jmcgrogan2 I've worked for Virtual Dynamics and have heard everything they had to offer and I must say that the only RCA VD cable that I would trade out my Grovers for was the Genesis. Power cables on the other hand... nothing can compares to Virtual Dynamics. Now this was years ago using Grover's S/UR8 cables. The VD cables have a more smooth, clear, organic sound. The Grover's are more of the grained textured technical cable offering great stage and imaging. Since you are concerned with the stage differences in comparison to the Virtual Dynamics cables... the grovers image deeper with-in the stage with more segregation and pin-point precision while Virtual Dynamics flow more organically with-in the stage with not as much definition and precision. If you have a Genesis cable I would stick with that, but if you are looking for a great interconnect bargain you can't beat Grover cables.
When you describe an "ongoing pattern of jumping on a new product" you are echoing the established "pattern" of thousands of Audiogon Members. This "pattern" is what makes Audiogon the #1 audio site in the world. Should audophiles content themselves with yesterday's stale products when they can improve their systems with today's upgraded offerings? I think not. Should they be chided for making these changes? I think not.
We are all adults here. Everyone can read what they like, avoid what they do not like, and make their own choices. I am amazed that some Members think my opinions are so influential that they need to caution other Members to avoid reading what I have to say. I do not believe Members really need "parental guidance".
Sabai. I really don't care which cables you use or want to follow your ongoing pattern of jumping on a new product, raving about it in these forums then dumping it for the next new product that comes along, then bad mouthing the cables you were just raving about in a different forum thread. Clearly your feedback is unreliable and I suggest people researching cables for their system avoid your posts all together.
Sabai. I wonder how long it will be until you abandon the Shunyata cables you are currently raving about. Move onto the next flavor of the month and start bad mouthing Shunyata cables. I'm sure it won't be long!
This is not suddenly. This is after a year of experimenting with many cables. A year is a long time in Cableland for me. I discarded HiDiamond cables a long time ago.
Unless you are the moderator and are banning me from this thread, if you do not want to hear any more from me then please feel free to ignore my posts. As long as everyone is respectful and sticks to the subject I believe all Members should be able to express their opinions on this subject without being told their opinions are not welcome.
All I'm going to say is in an internet forum, you have no idea who is behind the screen and on the keyboard. All you got is contents of their posts to determine if they have any credibility, and whether their advice and experience are worthy of consideration.
Sabai, I seem to recall about a year ago there was a long thread regarding HiDiamond cables and you were raving about them. Now suddenly they don't even come close to the cables you have in your system(?) seems a little odd to me, I guess you are a flavor of the month type. Perhaps you can simply be content knowing that your cable knowledge is better than everyone else here, you have more experienced ears and better cables, good for you. Now go away, we don't want to hear any more of your wisdom on this subject...
The title of this OP is "... Huffman cables vs." The poster is asking how Huffman cables "compare to others". He is looking for "a cable that is neutral". In my experience in my system, without going into the details, Huffman cables are not neutral. Nor are the cables made by the makers that I cited earlier. I would suggest the Shunyata Alpha series for neutral cables.
I really don't know what all the fuss is about. As I stated earlier, my comments are directed at many cable makers including HiDiamond, Huffman, Kimber, Gabriel Gold, Mogami, ASI Liveline, Synergistic Research and others that I have had in my system. YMMV. We all have our own experience, our own systems, and our own opinions. Some makers may be a bit thin-skinned and feel the need to defend themselves on the Forum and to have others come up to bat for them. But that's what the Forum is all about. To participate in the debate.
I must also disagree with Sabai's statement "Huffman cables may sound good in an inexpensive system" my system is far from inexpensive, I have spent many years refining my system with some of the finest components on the market, Grover's wonderful cables have brought further refinement (at an excellent price). Based on the level of dedication Sabai has presented to attempt to defame Grover's cables it's clear to me that you have an ulterior motive and anyone who is researching Grover's cables should discard your comments.
This is system dependent. HiDiamond and Huffman may sound good for a while -- but only until you find out that there are much better cables out there. It just depends how far you want to go with this. It depends on how much time, effort and money you are willing to spend.
If you stop at a certain point and you are satisfied with the sound of your cables in your system then you're fine. But you can never find out about better cables once you stop. Which begs the question, is there no end to it? At some point you have to call it quits. Unfortunately, those with really good systems may be calling it quits prematurely with HiDiamond and Huffman cables, because they do not live up to the potential of the components in many high end systems, in my experience.
If you do continue to search for better cables, your earlier laudatory comments -- like my comments on many cable companies -- may eventually be quietly archived to the Used Cables Comments Vault. It's like finding a new DAC or amplifier that outclasses the one you already own. No different. You move on. I have been through countless cable companies in the past 9 years. Hi Diamond and Huffman ZX do not even even close to the cables I now have in my system.
Of course, one expects bravado from cables makers. What cable maker would not declare that he would put his cables up against the best cables out there, cables that are even far more expensive than his? We see these kinds of bold declarations time and again in Cableland. But this is simply marketing bravado. The obvious fact is that this does not mean their cables come close in SQ to the cables of other makers. It just means they are trying to put on a brave face.
The fact is that most cables makers would find their own cables put to shame if they had the courage to quietly install premium cables from competing cable makers in their own system. I have never heard a cable maker admit that a competitor makes better cables than he does. At the least, most cable makers declare that their cables are the best at their price point and that they punch "way above" it, whatever that means, with a deeper sound stage, blacker background, more detail and transparency, blah, blah, blah. As Ozzy has accurately pointed out, there is just so much BS out there from cable makers.
I didn't read through the entire thread so i don't know what you ended up with, but I can share my impression of a brief encounter with the excellent GH interconnects. What I heard sounded Incredibly good. Dimensionality and flow come to mind... they had a sweetness without sounding slow or colored and a sort of effortless harmonic flow that was very captivating. The only other cable that was on hand for comparison was the Reference Zentara @ $900. per meter pair...which was slightly more tonally neutral in my opinion with greater resolution, retrieval of fine detail with a bit more weight, focus and dynamic accuracy. The GH is worth more in my opinion and many very expensive cables will not let the music flow in such a special way.
I couldn't disagree more with Sabai's statement that Huffman cables "lack of harmonics", to me this is their most endearing quality, they present natural harmonic richness and texture better than any other cable I've tried (I've tired many), they could have a slightly deeper soundstage and a tad more top end extension but midrange harmonics is where the music is and these have it, the raunch of a sax and pluck detail of a bass. Overall they are very well balanced, great highs, deep tight realistic bass and excellent mids!
I consider myself to be an 'experienced listener' and have owned a fairly long list of hifi cables (HiDiamond, Kimber Select, Kubala Sosna, Synergistic Research, Audioquest and several more...) many of the top dollar cables were a disappointment, currently my system is comprised of HiDiamond and Huffman ZX, Huffman's have actually pushed out some of the higher priced cables. Excellent cables at a great price.
I like the Shuntaya Zitron series and their Alpha series, as well. You can pick up some bargains on Audiogon. They are the best buy in high end audio cables for my system. Except for some DIY cables (see below). I see Shunyata are bringing out a new line. But the prices are "reference prices". Just reading about all this gives me cable fatigue. Elrods do well on some components in my system where Shunyatas do not work as well. But they are very pricey. I run most of my cables in series using my own modded DIY Furutechs. And I do other mods in my system to optimize cable performance.
For my system, the best DIY bargain is silver wire for speaker cables. They beat every contender I have ever used -- by a wide margin -- including Elrod, Synergistic Research and Huffman, among others. As Ozzy has observed, there is so much BS in the cable business around the latest and greatest speaker wire offerings. BS baffles brains, as we used to say.
In my experience, it is only the conductor that matters -- despite all the talk from makers about various metals, dialectrics, cryogenic treatment, quantum tunneling, ribbon configuration, magnets, patents and patents pending, geometry, active shielding, special coatings, proprietary formulas and other nonsense. All these makers have their chest out ready to put their wonderful cables up against any and all contenders. They all produce amazing cables that "punch way above their price points" -- many of which are genuine "game-changers".
There is no end to all the improvements -- from MKI to MKII to MKIII, from SX to SX+ to ZX to ZX+, from Super to Ultra to Reference to Super Reference to Ultra Reference. If only prospective buyers who don't know any better would fall for the marketing -- of mostly ho-hum products offered up in attractive packaging -- and hyped to the hilt -- with A/V shows and reviewers auspiciously quoted and YouTubes to drive home the point.
Talking about cable fatigue, I hazard a guess that cable makers who bring out one line after the other with one improvement after the other have never done A/B comparisons of their cables with those of other makers. I have written elsewhere on the Forum that I can guarantee the follow. If some of the well-known cable makers were brought into a room and a blind test was done with their cables most of them would not be able to identify their own -- despite the ebullience of makers regarding their latest offerings and all the superlatives in gushing text. There is so much BS in the cable business. Caveat emptor.
I will be posting about the previous digression regarding Huffman cables when I have the time to do all the documentation. I am snowed under with work launching a new product and I do not have the time at the moment.
Since you continue to digress from the OP, once I am out from under my work load later this week I will be be more than happy to document all the important points I have made here. I will respond to your recent digression in a very direct manner, quoting emails and dates, so that everyone may be able to "glean the truth".
The famous "it" you are making famous here refers to a coating you developed directly from my design (in a modified form so that attributing it to me could be avoided) -- and I will prove in black and white that this is the fact. With no room for any doubt whatsoever.
Those who care to read carefully through my posts in this thread will know that I am not "trashing" Huffman cables any more than I am "trashing" the cables from a number of other makers that I have named in this thread. I believe it is my right to express my opinions about cables here as freely as others do. What I have stated very clearly is that Huffman cables offer good value for the money -- but not to expect that they, or some of the others I mention, will perform in high end systems as well as some other cables which, admittedly, cost more. Since Shunyata has recently brought down the prices of their cables quite substantially, the price differential has been cut drastically -- which more than justifies digging deep to experience them, IMO. They offer one of the best price/performance ratios in high end cables at the moment, IMO, if not the best.
I think there may be the perception out there that you can buy some of the lower-priced cables and expect them to punch way above their price point, as the saying goes, regarding sound quality. Of course, this is subjective and also system dependent. But, in my system, I have found this to be true only in rare cases. Pangea, Gabriel Gold, ASI Liveline and Huffman cables are not among those rare cases.
Regarding expressing ourselves freely here, I believe we all have the right to state our opinions on matters concerning cables as long as we remain true to the OP and as long as we are respectful of others. If Ted Denney (Synergistic Research), Steve (Gabriel Gold), Franck Tchang (ASI Liveline) and Grover Huffman (Grover Huffman cables) wish to come on the Forum and defend themselves, so be it. Why not? We are all free to enter into the discussion.
But, IMO, it is unseemly to see any manufacturer appear on the Forum, especially for the first time, to digress into non-OP related matters, to bandy about the word "liar" in an off-OP commentary, while apparently trying to berate and belittle a serious poster who has contributed here for many years and who is studious enough to carefully document his statements. Snide and disrespectful comments are always noted by discerning Community members who are able to glean much by reading between the lines.
I will return to this thread before too many days -- with the story of how Ken's Magic Box became Grover's Magic Cable. With allegedly no connection whatsoever between the two? Hmmm.
Yes, I remember that e-mail well. I was not talking about your design (you added that), the it referred to a new coating which has nothing to do with your design and you know that very well. I also remember the end of our relationship and it had nothing to do with my using your design in my cables since I have not used your design modified or otherwise because your design does not work for cables. I posted because people should know why you have been trashing my cables. Im sure people are going to be able to glean the truth, and I know that most folks can identify excellence when they hear it. You can keep lying about me all you want, it wont change the truth
The new Shunyata Alpha series are the most neutral cables I have tried to date. You may be able to pick one up at a bargain price on Audiogon -- well worth the try. I would suggest the Alpha Digital PC for starters. It's not only a matter of neutrality here. The low level detail, transparency and sound stage are stunning. In my system.
Since you have outright called me a liar on this thread (regarding taking my design), since you have insinuated that I owe you a bunch of money (you did not state this affirmatively but cleverly posed this in the form of a question), since you have brought personal emails into the discussion and since you have made statements that are clearly contradicted by the facts, you have impelled me to respond.
Regarding your statement that you did not take my design, here are exact quotes from your May 31, 2013 emails to me:
"I'm going to incorporate it [your design] into all my cables [sic] you won't believe the difference on the RCA's. Amazing. I'm in the process of buying a lot of submicron particle [name of metal]. The [name of metal] I bought is too large 15 micron and it sinks to the bottom like heavy stones. I'll be coating all my cables. No one will know though ... I feel God has brought us together my friend."
Regarding owing you money, our agreement was a 50/50 partnership. But, in the end, your refused to abide by the partnership you had agreed to. You attempted, unilaterally, to rewrite that agreement so that you would become both an employee AND a partner. You decided, unilaterally, that I should cover all the expenses and that you would receive 50% of MSRP even if the actually selling price was less than MSRP!
And, at the very end of our relationship, you demanded payment of $1000 for services rendered, in breach of our 50/50 agreement, and you demanded no less than $500 for shipping 10 empty aluminum shells and a collection of Tesla Plex SE receptacles up the coast from California to Portland, OR.
My response? I paid you $500 for the shipping and I paid you $1000 for services rendered for putting together 2 boxes -- in full accordance with your demands. I have proof that I made these payments to you. Unfortunately, you have painted yourself into a corner by claiming here that you did not take my design, and by insinuating that I owe you a bunch of money.
I note that your posts on this thread represent the first time you have ever posted to the Forum. It is unfortunate that you have taken this opportunity to digress from the subject of the OP, to attack me personally and to misrepresent the facts. By trying to transform this cable discussion into a discussion of our professional association, by introducing private emails into this discussion and by misstating the facts you are attracting disrepute. Lamentably, you are in the process of sullying the reputation that you have tried so hard to cultivate over the years. You have a lot to lose by your ill-advised posts -- and you are in the process of doing so. IMHO.
In my earlier post I indicated the desire to keep to the subject of the OP. But you have chosen to try to misdirect this discussion. I would like the discussion to return to the subject of the OP. The subject of the OP is cables.
Since you insist on going back to our professional association, you stated in your post "By the way it's a lie that I incorporated your design. I only use my own design Ken." Grover, you may indeed have changed your design AFTER incorporating my design in your cables. But do you remember your May 31, 2013 email to me? -- where you stated the following:
"I'm going to incorporate it [your design] into all my cables you won't believe the difference on the RCA's. Amazing. I'm in the process of buying a lot of submicron particle [name of metal]. The [name of metal] I bought is too large 15 micron and it sinks to the bottom like heavy stones ..."
You also stated on May 31, 2013 that "I feel God has brought us together my friend."
I love chocolate. Remembering how wrong I have been is a complement. It is by being wrong, and knowing I was wrong, that has enabled me to make such great strides toward improving my system. It is those who are afraid to be wrong who are the losers when it comes to developing their audio systems.
I note your comment that "I know how wonderful my cables are ..." Would anyone expect a cable maker to feel differently? I also note your frivolous answer to my respectful and serious comments about Audiogon Virtual Systems that still remain to be addressed. I also note a belittling tone in your response. It does not take too much to read between the lines, IMHO.
Once again, you appear to be personalizing this discussion rather than staying on topic. We have seen this in the past on the Forum -- attempts to sully the messenger instead of addressing the message. I believe most members of the Community are very wise to this sort of thing, having seen this happen so many times in the past. But since this is your first time posting on the Forum you may not be aware of how sophisticated and discerning Community members have become through the years.
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