I want to move from Rega Planar 6 help me to pick a new turntable

My $$$ would go for a VPI. I have had 2 different ScoutMasters and was well pleased with them. The Teres that I now have was a TT I had been wanting for a long time previous. But I liked the VPI and recommend them. They have a good upgrade path and had excellent customer service

VPI definitely matches my requirements and I do like the look of it. My only concern is unipivot arm, which I never dealt with.

My only concern is unipivot arm, which I never dealt with.

I think it gets a bad rap. But they do also make a gimbal arm in the fatboy.

The Technics SL-1200G might give you a worthwhile improvement over the Rega 6.

I'm not at all certain whether any of the others will.

As you said, "There is nothing wrong with Rega Planar 6. In fact I enjoy it and if asked I would recommend it to other people."

If you do not care for Pro-Ject then you may want to rethink the EAT table, made in the same factory. They are partners.

I would look at Clearaudio I have been using their tables for years. The Concept is in your range.

Or better yet save up a little and get a vintage Thorens. The new 1600 is very nice.

@adrobitko - if you are happy with the Rega and just want VTA and Azimuth why no just replace the arm with an Audiomods arm.

• you can then sell the Rega arm to offset csome of the cost

It will fit the plinth nicely, but you might have to put 1/8" spacers under the lid to clear the micrometer adjustment.

It will trounce whatever arm you have on the rega right now and look better while doing it

I’ve had the old Classic Series III for about 10 years and an extremely happy with it

• http://image99.net/blog/files/04fdba8476cfd21bdd7a5fdf38c8cdf5-28.html
• While you are at it replace that glass platter with an acrylic one and get some large bronze/brass cone feet
  • http://image99.net/blog/files/505119d0be04fa00f053d1e3491df5c8-80.html

Also get the one piece harness - it works wonders

But if you must get a new turntable my vote goes to the Music Hall - they have great spec’s

Regards - Steve

@jerryg123 true about EAT. I ruled out Clearaudio Concept because of the USB. 

@williewonka I really don't want to go through arm upgrade rabbit hole yet :)

But music hall looks nice

I doubt that you would go wrong with the Technics SL-1200 GR. My friend has that table in black (SL-1210 GR). The arm is decent and it has all the adjustments that you would ever need!

@adrobitko USB? that you want one?

I know my Concept DC is sans USB.

@jerryg123 true about EAT. I ruled out Clearaudio Concept because of the USB.

@jerryg123 when I was doing research most places listed Concept as having USB. 

@adrobitko no Clearaudio turntables have USB. Not even the Concept Active.

If you are really concerned about azimuth, take a look at the Well-Tempered Labs Simplex turntable. It has a on the fly collar azimuth adjustment that has to be seen in operation to believe.

I had a Rega 6 and went to a Well-Tempered. A very nice sonic improvement overall. 

I have owned several of the turntables on your list including the the Music Hall. If you do not like the Pro-Ject I suspect you might not like the music hall either, i.e. they are very similar. In fact I had a double plinth 5.1 that used the project tone arm, was a good table but similar to the rega 6 and project carbon.

Of the ones listed I prefer the VPI prime in style and function.

That said, I currently have a vintage Thorens table, which took the place of my more modern units. As indicated above, vintage Thorens units such as the TD124 are amazing. While a fully restored td124 might be over budget you can easily pick one up for under 2K in great shape and easy to restore.

you are going in te wrong direction you need a better phono stage and an isolation

base

the p6 is an awesome table and you will find yourself less drawn into the music with many of the tables mentioned.

lack of vta and azimuth are only really important with expensive cartridges.with exotic stylus profiles.

so, unless you are going with a top-of-the-line cart you shouldnt be concerned about vta and azimuth.

Dave and Troy

audio intellect nj.

Rega dealers

@audiotroy 

I would disagree that azimuth is only important on expensive cartridges.

Once I had to put back my DL-103 (on the ART9XA one channel broke after about 10 hours, and on previous Quintet Black cantilever broke)  I finally decided to set up azimuth.

I checked the DL-103 and the stylus was at a small degree to the surface. In fact I checked my all previous cartridges and all had stylus at an angle. 

So I put a shim under one side of DL-103. As usual I set up my cartridge with oscilloscope. But this time I actually adjusted the azimuth to minimize cross-talk on the worst channel.

After that, not only channel balance improved, but also tracking ability. While when I had this cartridge before it could not track past 70um on my Ortofon Test LP. This time after azimuth adjustment it only ever slightly distorts when tracking 100um.

It is a mechanical system, which means all moving parts are important. If stylus is not perpendicular to the surface, one side will have more wear than the other and also it might increase record wear.

Cartridges are not ideal, but it does not mean that we can't make them perform their best, even if they are not expensive one. For the same reason I don't align the cartridge sides, but rather cantilever, because it may be at an angle to the cartridge body.

I plan to get more expensive one, but now I realized that I want to have an ability to make an optimal setup. Of course I can use shim as in DL-103, but it does not sound right to me.

Touche’! Audiotroy hit it right on the head. The Phono pre amp is the gateway to great vinyl sound. Based on your current set of components I would put money into a bettter cartridge (Dynavector 10X5) and phonostage (Musicial Surroundings Nova). Upgrading your whole turntable so you can fiddle with azimuth settings makes no sense, the REGA has a very lively, energetic, engaging sound. Be happy with it, at this stage things just get more sensitive from here which can be a good or bad thing. Stay in the fun zone upgrade your REGA ...www.groovetracer.com

P.S. If I was going to find a table that would be a true upgrade without losing the great REGA sound is a J.A Michell Gyro SE....this table (with the Techno arm, a modded RB250) retains all the great aspects of the RP6 but elevates everything in terms of sweetness and detail with better dynamics and much greater sensitivity, Built like a battleship this table has a slew of adjustments and upgrades if thats desired.

Matt M

@mattmiller the new cartridge is the next step. In fact it all started with my cartridges adventure.

For quite awhile I had Ortofon Quintet Black S. I actually enjoyed it a lot. It actually handled surface noise better than most of cartridges I've heard, had very detailed sound at the same time. All of that ended after about 200 hours when cantilever just broke off.

I put my DL-103 and while it did not performed as good, it still was quite enjoyable.

Then I finally decided to get a better cartridge, about 3 weeks ago I've got ART9XA, which I actually enjoyed a lot. It had wider soundstage than Quintet and was as detailed as it was. I liked it a lot. But after 10 hours, one channel stopped working. I measured it and it had infinite resistance compared to the other one. I sent it back and soon will get the refund.

I put my DL-103, as mentioned before and started to think what cartridge to get. This is when I realized, to optimally set it up I want to have adjustable azimuth.

Phono upgrade is in the plans as well.

In fact I had Rega Aria v3. But during the move to a new house there was an accident that destroyed my $10k work computer, $3k guitar, some other staff and Aria too. Fortunately insurance covered all of that, but I still have not got a new preamp. But I compared parasound to Rega and it did not sound significantly worse. It actually sounds really good for a $500 preamp.

I was actually thinking of upgrading amp and maybe speakers, until I’ve done my taxes and the check I own to IRS crossed all my plans for the upgrades :)

the Rega P6 is amazing and I think better than most of the turntable mentioned on your wish list. 

It is said that, out of the box, the 1200GR is 85% of the sound quality of the 1200G. As a 1200G owner, I can say that it is my last turntable. Out of all the tables you mentioned, I would say get the 1200GR. It is not apparent until tou take possession of a Technics, just how well executed this product is.

It will play just as well in 40 years as it does out of the box. 

@shriber as I stated in my post, I think it is an awesome table and great value for money. If one does not care about azimuth or plan to use rega cartridges I would highly recommend it. It is one of the best in the price range. 
 

 But after two years I realized I need azimuth adjustment. We all have our preferences. Some must have perfect VTA setup. I don’t care about it too much. 
 

@sandthemall that’s what I’ve heard too. Also I heard that with some upgrades one can make it sound even better than 1200G. Not that I plan to, but it tells a lot about the quality. For this reason the only upgrade I might consider is to 1200G

@adrobitko      You are right.  Azimuth is more important than VTA.  So it's important to avoid buying a cart on which it is off.  Check and measure before accepting.  Much cheaper than buying a new table.

Such carts should not be sold although I know they are, and sometimes by high dollar names.

Turntables with lots of adjustments can be less rigid than simpler set-ups and it is critical that there is absolutely no movement or vibration at these joints that will allow the stylus to be displaced and pick up signals other than from the modulations cut into the groove.  Even a micron will cause distortion.  This is more important than being a degree or two out on azimuth.

The best course is to buy an accurately built cart and a simple well-engineered table.

Before you move on, inexpensive Nobsound springs should work wonders under both the player and the Neo PSU.

I have them under all my kit, including speakers

hth

I recently moved from a Rega P5 to a Technics SL-1200GEG-S because I was not able to get my Zyx cartridge working well with the Rega, despite of playing with VTA spacers, VTF (+ exchange of the CW with an heavier tungsten one) and AS (from none ot max). Azimut was looking good (visually + test records).

In fact I have never determined the origin of my issue. It looks to be an incompatible match between the RB700 arm and the Zyx Ultimate SB. Before the Zyx I had a Golding Eroica LX that was playing very well.

So, looking at a new turntable I set 2 non negotiable points: VTA adjustment (on the fly or almost) and a removable headshell. And a third point being a dust cover (when the TT is not in use).

I went finally for the Technics and I can say that I cannot be more than happy!

This TT is almost plug & play (however I used a protractor for fine cart adjustment), a strong motor torque, very stabilized rotation, my Zyx is finally singing very well, etc... And I can even play the records with the dust cover in place. Also, the stylus is going down to the record very "vertically" which was not the case with the Rega. I haven't tried any test record on the Technics yet, I just performed the adjustment by ears using mono records and the sound is excellent, may be I can fine tune and get more from this TT+cart.

You seem to happy with the sound of your Rega P6, and rightly so! So why not upgrade to the best Rega Cartridge within your budget and call it a day since it will be perfectly aligned for your arm. Then concentrate on listening to music !

Good point mgolpoor !

I'd never own another Music Hall. Poor quality and Roy is a jackass.

I'd look at Well Tempered.

I own and love my p3 rega ....... but my next table is a VPI for the same reason.

@secretguy +1 you nailed it!

On VTA adjustment. This is a bigger deal than some might think. Especially with the better MC cartridges. While using the AT33ptgII, I was a little underwhelmed with its performance. I finally took the time to measure VTA and discovered the tonearm was ever so slightly 'tail-up'. Luckily the Technics VTA adjustment goes quite a bit beyond the zero mark. I was able to get it level and it was an entirely different cartridge.

Also the gimbal bearings on Technics G/GR turntables are ridiculously smooth. This is not talked about enough. 

I do believe a better phono stage is also important. I really like my Hagerman Trumpet MC. But I would agree that you want to be able to deal with all cartridge/tonearm setup parameters first and that requires a turntable that makes this a simple, precise and repeatable process.

Thumbs up for the Audiomods arm. Can adjust azimuth as well as VTA. Sounds awesome as well.

I have the P6 with Exact cart so very interested to see where this thread goes!  I have no plans to upgrade the table but possibly the cart and definitely the pre.  I am currently enjoying the very inexpensive Graham Slee SE 2.  Sounds good, but I know I can do much better.

Great info!

@clearthinker agree. Carts that have azimuth off should not pass the quality control. But in reality I have seen it on a carts going up to $2k. Have not checked more expensive carts. unfortunately internet started to kill local retailers and COVID  finished  them off. There are almost no stores around me that sell anything more expensive than at-vm95e :) one retailer declined to let me check the cart before I buy it. Because they will have to open the box and then it is not a new cart anymore. If I decide to buy I can return it but they will take 15% restocking fee. Unless something wrong with it. But azimuth they don’t consider as something wrong, because i should be able to adjust it on the turntable. :)

@mgolpoor the only Rega cart that I’d consider buying is Alpheta 3.  But it is out of my price range at the moment. I prefer shibata, micro line profiles. Don’t care about elliptical. So I’d have to settle for something I don’t like from Rega carts just because I can’t adjust azimuth. 

a few years ago i was seeking an upgrade for my VPI traveller with ART9 cartridge.

i listened to the new at the time Rega P6 with Ania cartridge at a dealer on my same Harbeth speakers.  after all the Rega hype i had read the sound was disappointing.  i thought my traveler sounded better.  

i wound up getting the technics 1200gr and a herbies 4mm mat.  

it was a solid upgrade, clearer, lots of dynamic energy and speed steady as a rock.  also great vibration isolation and cartridge adjustability.  

since them i have tried a number of cartridges landing on a lyra delos.  that is it for me, the sound is perfect.  good luck!

Hi again @adrobitko 

"Because they will have to open the box and then it is not a new cart anymore. If I decide to buy I can return it but they will take 15% restocking fee. Unless something wrong with it. But azimuth they don’t consider as something wrong, because i should be able to adjust it on the turntable."

Shame on such dealers.  They are not providing any service to customers, just suiting themselves.  You may as well buy cheaper on-line and push them into the dirt.  Let's name them.

I have a P8 with Ania Pro and a VPI Classic 3 with Ortofon cadenza black cart. I really love both tables for different reasons and keep them both in the system and use both hooked to my Manley Steelhead phono stage. Often times I play one side of a record on the P8 and the other on the VPI. Def the VPI is more of a open and transparent see into sound than the P8. The P8 is still very fun to listen to and so much easier to use. Takes seconds to flip a record. You don’t have to even stop the platter. With the VPI it’s a process and takes really 10X longer. If I want to sit down and really Basque in the sound I’ll put on the VPI but for everyday casual listening I go P8. I have a feeling the P8 would get a lot closer to the sound of the VPI with a better cart.

Dear @adrobitko  : STPH M.Fremer reviewed the 100K+  SAT XD-1 turntable using only top cartridges as Lyra Atlas and in that review he posted:

"" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy. ""

In his review of the Rega MF had not problems because the azymuth issue but if you are so worried about I think audiomods makes and after market item for that.

The Rega RP-10 could be your best choice. Is up to you. It's tonearm is an excellent one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

FWIW I would go with a VPI. That is what I am looking to do very soon. You do not have to go unipivot as there is a gimbal option. Unipivot are fine but can be subject to vibrations in many instances depending on where you have them set up. 

You need to add this to your list if you want a serious upgrade 

https://sotaturntables.com/ 
USA built with lifetime upgrade and buy back program!

@rauliruegas I don't have anything against Rega. They make top products. It is just they don't have what I am looking for. 

@sgreg1 I looked at SOTA and they make great turntables. Ironically the only turntable in my price range has Rega arm on it :)

@rauliruegas btw, Ive heard M.Fremer uses Technics SL-1200G now.

@ejlif thanks for sharing the experience. that is my concern with VPI, it is harder to set up properly and for some it is hard to deal with unipivot. I know they make tables with gimbal , but due to COVID it is hard to find anything that won't require months of wait. Local VPI dealer told me that they have several tables on order for 4 months already.

@adrobitko, get a Rega cartridge, I recommend the Apheta 3 and get a better phono stage.   If you can't afford it now, start saving.  My Rega P10 blows away my friend's VPI Classic with on the fly adjustable VTA.  Before my friend bought the VPI, he wanted on the fly VTA and adjustable azimuth.  He's had the VPI for over 5 years and I asked him how often do you use the adjustments, his answer was he doesn't use them.   The more adjustments that you have, the more that you'll screw things up.  You may think that the Parasound is a good phono stage but you need better if you're trying to improve your analog playback.  My 2cents.

@smatsui Thanks. I appreciate the advice. But I don't want to be limited to Rega cartridges. My preferred stylus is Shibata and they don't make anything with this profile.

@adrobitko  : You don't read what I posted because you can have the azymuth characteristic. What MF uses is not the issue.

All is up to you.

R.

@rauliruegas I guess I have not completely understood what you said in that posts. If you mean that I can have azimuth adjustment by upgrading tonearm - it is not the path I want to take.

"I'd never own another Music Hall. Poor quality and Roy is a jackass."

I had to deal with Roy Hall back in 1999 when I owned some EPOS ES22 speakers your right he is a self absorbed meglomaniac!

Matt M