I'm continually surprised at the lack of common courtesy in Audiogon transactions. What happened to, "Hi, I'm interested in your..." or, "Would you accept..." Instead, it's "$900 shipped to Canada." End of email. I'm not one for excessive formality, but I think a little friendliness and complete sentences go a long way.
Once in a while I'll have a great exchange with another Audiogoner whether it leads to a sale or not, but this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Aren't audiophiles supposed to be a friendly bunch?
Just to add my last 2 cents. Just put a couple ads up after not selling anything for 6 months. Wow, I can not believe the flakes. Given the rule that the smaller the price the worse the clients I was still suprised.
The number of people who made offers and even accepted offers then disappeared was silly. At least 2 aborted transactions per item. And this is from people with good feed back.
Now I have kicked some tires, not liked the sound and walked away. But I always said 'Sorry, no thank you.' to me not responding is the rudest thing of all.
09-08-07: Lousyreeds1 ... If this is a reflection of society as a whole, and I've unfairly singled out Audiogon, so be it.
Unfortunately this is true. Not only on Audiogon. Driving would be a perfect example of our society. In NJ you can't honk the horn anymore or you automatically get a finger. Someone driving in the fast lane in the 55 limit zone doing 45mph with no cars in front of them and sticking out their finger at you when you flash the lights and beep the horn, definitely means a lot. Or may be that's because they see my NY plates. :)
I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to hold our community to a higher standard.
I agree with most of the above. There's obviously a spectrum of politeness or chatiness, and for me even the bare minimum will do, but there IS a minimum! If this is a reflection of society as a whole, and I've unfairly singled out Audiogon, so be it. I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to hold our community to a higher standard.
Dear All, I am an old fogey and have never felt comfortable using a completely different format for e-mailt han I would for other mail.I really never found the "hi" address to be anything serious. When have any of you adressed a group that you do not have a personal relationship with, using or Hello instead of the common style of mail address. As seen above the seemingly emotional Dear..., I also sign off with. Sincerely Yours, I began doing this since my early 30s. If I wish to be abrupt for brevity or neutrality I will use a simple (:) as in ChadnLiz: I can assure you that I know the price is fair and firm. In truth, by definition anything is only worth whata person or group of people will pay for it.Which does not convey the same arbitrary decision in " I know what the price should be." It may be what you would like to get for your item, but the buyers will accept your point of view or will tell you otherwise. The communicationof the actual value will be determined by an absence of a purchase on your terms. Even though a very "fair and firm" price or the remarkably terrifying and unrefined insult of an offer to pay less than your well considered opinion regarding the fairness of the price you assigned to them. Who are you convincing by simply announcing your intolerance to otheroffers ,who heaven forbid may be well conversant in the market for that item. I will tell you what. I have some tubes which are rare and sound great IMHO. I don't think there are any for sale at the moment.I am thinking of a special 12AU7, the Amperex 7316 NIB. The boxes are themselves are in excellent condition. The tubes are pritine,clearly acid etched with the Heerlen Holland properly dated codes and clean printing. I have tested them and the gain,transconductance are absolutely indicative of NOS. The sound is exquisite. What would be fair? What they are worth to me? That would be at least $1,000 firm,should I desire to sell them. Perhaps a fairer price should be my cost plus a finder's fee ? I have 2 pairs that are very much alike and a slightly different type. A well known version of this tube labeled Mazda ECC 186 but clearly acid etched as a Heerlen Phillips tube like the others. What is fair? The tubes are real, but I am not selling them. Unless someone wishes to make an unusually generous offer. Sincerely, Steven A. Mechans
I do agree with Chadnliz - lots of times those don't net out
Even more mysterious to me is the number of buyers who can't be bothered to take the time to confirm receipt or leave feedback - when I am selling I make it clear that I will leave feedback upon their confirmation of receipt - when I am buying I always leave feedback
It's people you are dealing with. Everyone's different. And I know it too! But, I agree with you. Also, I've encountered a few times where I make an offer and never get a reply. Wonder why because the offer wasn't a low ball. The 3-4 later I discover the item is marked as sold. The seller never bothers to reply. That's nice too.
How about the reply's where the buyer doesn't even have the courtesy to give you their name? It happens all the time. I can go through 3 or 4 emails before I find out. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think I should have to ask. Although Sometimes I have be forced to so. When I respond, I like to start with "Hi Elmo" or what ever the name might be. Instead must begin with " Hi You" (whoever you are) I have never responded to an ad without signing my name to it. What happened to simple manners? Good to finally get this off my chest... Signed...Lee
Kind of a mixed bag for me over the years, some great transactions some rough. On the buying side some of the nicer sellers were the ones who over rated condition or 'forgot' to mention that a product was modded or scratched. So who knows.
One thing I have found is that the definition of 'lowball' varies a lot. I had a couple things I asked about where the ad mentioned taking offers only to piss the guy off I think. To me 25% under asking price is about the lowball line, and my offer were maybe 20% down. Dosen't seem hard to reply "$xxx is my limit" or "let me see what else I get".
I've had some great interactions, but one thing to note is that any piece that's a really good price goes within a few minutes of it being posted. I've seriously lost out of products that have only been posted for 6 minutes. So, often on my initial email I'll simply give a short and sweet " I'll take it, let me know your paypal address" Hardly rude, but I don't want perfection to stand in the way of getting a great deal on a piece that I've been looking for...
I think the rude and simple reply to an add is usually a fishing expedition and they probably have been turned down so many times for the lowball offer that they dont bother with small talk.
I have found.....and this is just my opinion, that the individuals who usually make an offer like the ones that are being described are not serious buyers....and you usually end up not selling to that person. In my experiences, you can tell by what the person is asking and how they are asking you is usually a good indication if you have a serious buyer. When I get short or curt question...I will answer them in the same manner...if they don't have the time...neither do I. Move on to a more interested buyer who will appreciate your product
I'll be honest and state that most of the transactions I have had on Audiogon have been quite good, and everyone is really rather civil. Occasionally I have gotten a lowball bid that is a bit too low, but I just say "No Thanks", and move on. I typically exchange emails with sellers (of equipment I bought) and/or buyers (of equipment I sold) well after the sale, in order to either make sure what they bought was satisfactory or that I was satisfied with what I bought. And typically, we usually BS about our systems, or our musical tastes. In fact, the first person I bought something (an ARC PH-3 phono preamp) from on Audiogon, has become a good friend. We get together every couple of months to listen to each others systems, and compare recent musical finds, and to toss down a couple of drinks, and sometimes we just get together for lunch during the week. So I guess our experiences here on Audiogon have been rather different.
PS I wish you good luck in all of your future transactions here on Audiogon.
I agree with all of the above. I think it's true that normally cordial folks do this unconciously sometimes. It's the "instant message" culture. My reaction though is to doubt the person's sincerity and credibility. Normally this first impression is changed through further dialog, but not always.
There's a fine line - I'm sure none of us want to hear about how nice a day it is or to be introduced to the person's family, but a nice greeting and a complete sentence describing the offer like in your examples would be nice.
Courtesy is a nice extra these days. It certainly makes you feel better but as long as the transaction is smooth and all stipulations are honored I am fine just selling or buying the gear with short emails that may lack in social grace.
Though I owe it to Fire_Bottle, to whom I just sold an amp, to say that he was a total pleasure to deal with, and made the experience much more enjoyable than usual!
I hear ya,thing is theres people here who aren't familiar with interpersonal relationships,not to mention common courtesy.On the other hand lots of folks are in a hurry I guess.Know how that is....
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