Jazz for aficionados
Lots of good music on ECM. The recordings are typically very well-engineered and sound great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6JLiA8k780 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jME2KLZt-AE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8iRCLjClKQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElLEU9ry2-8
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For whatever it may be worth to any one listener, among current and recent tenor saxophone players there is something on which there is, I would say, at least 95% agreement. The three greatest tenor players have been Trane, Rollins and Henderson. Probably in that order. Bottom line is, who has gotten copied the most by other tenor players? Those three are the top three. Of course, they did their share of copying themselves. It’s the nature of the music. Rollins was amazing. He was one of those players who had such commanding musical presence, particularly in the area of rhythm, that when one listens to him there is the strong sense that, instead of the horn player playing to the rhythm section’s groove, as usual, he is setting the groove and the rhythm section plays to him. Amazing. |
RE: RTF live-- I’m a few years older than you (67) and my first exposure to anything connected to Jazz was in 1972, when I first heard "The Inner Mounting Flame". The first track I heard was, if I remember correctly, "The Dance of Maya", which definitely blew my mind. But it didn’t inspire me to explore Jazz. That began about five years later and once started, pretty much snowballed. I wish I could find another genre to explore that stimulated me as much as my exploration of Jazz but I don’t think it’s gonna happen, at this point. I heard the Heath Brothers (all three) when they still had Stanley Cowell on piano and have a few Jimmy Heath cds in my collection.
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY SONNY ROLLINS 93 TODAY GOD BLESS!! 50s Sonny Sonny Rollins Live in Europe 1959 - YouTube 60s Sonny Sonny Rollins - St. Thomas - YouTube 70s Sonny 80s Sonny Sonny Rollins: Live in Tokyo, Japan, March 30, 1988 - YouTube 90s Rollins Sonny Rollins live in Belgium 1993 Part 1 - YouTube 21st Century Rollins Sonny Rollins, Class of 2006 - Summit Performance with Savion Glover in Los Angeles - YouTube Sonny Rollins - Jazz à Vienne 2011 - LIVE HD - YouTube Interview with Aiden Levy, author of Sonny's biography Saxophone Colossus (I'm almost finished reading it and its one of the best bios I have read) Sonny Rollins - The Untold Story: Sunday Night Live - YouTube |
Wow thats going back a half century. I was listening to Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Jethro Tull, among many other rock bands that were popular in the 70s. Seeing RTF was a great experience for me and I hope it was for you back then. I just turned 60 and did not start listening to jazz until my late 30s. When I was in my early 20s I met The Modern Jazz Quartets bassist Percy Heath through his son Stewart. Stewart and I was working at the same construction site. Anyway I was still heavy into rock and when Stewart told me of his father and his uncles Jimmy Heath and Albert "tootie" Heath I kinda brushed him off having no interest in jazz at that time in the mid 80s. If I only knew.... I have made up for my ignorance as a young man the last 3 decades and am much the better for it. I saw the Heath Brothers Band live in NYC 1n 2011, minus Percy who had passed on in 2005 and I loved it. Jimmy passed in 2020. Albert is still with us. Percy Jimmy UNT Jazz Faculty: Jimmy Heath - The Rio Dawn (1995) - YouTube Albert aka tootie Emmet Cohen Trio W/ Tootie Heath | Live In New Mexico - YouTube Sonny Rollins on Jimmy Heath |
McLaughlin playing solo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NljjReNLQ_w&ab_channel=VladanStanojevic |
I once attended a concert that featured Ravi Shankar with Bud Shank, Dennis Budimir and various other LA Jazz players but was not that impressed. To me it sounded like two traditions moving in parallel. On the other hand, I very much enjoy the Indo-Jazz "fusion" of Shakti, which seems to me more Indian than Jazz, overall. John McLaughlin seriously studied the Vina. In fact, he said he was falling in love with it to such an extent that at one point he had to ask himself whether he wanted to make it his main instrument and give up guitar. He's also studied the Indian system of keeping time or Tala. So, he's done much more than just "dipping his toe" into Indian music. My parents had some recordings by flautist Jean Pierre Rampal and Andre Previn that attempted to fuse Classical with Jazz but I never cared for them. It was all too polite and safe. Vocalist Savina Yanatyou has some recordings on ECM that attempt to bridge Jazz with traditional middle eastern music. I like them but they don't sound very jazzy to me. Oudist Anouar Brahem has attempted something similar with his ECM releases. I'm left with the impression that a true fusion is rare. Ironically, the fusion of Rock and Jazz may be the most successful to date, even if some of us don't find it that compelling. A lot of Fusion records sold during the genre's heyday, for whatever that's worth. |
I take a relaxation break from Russian jazz and from Billy Harper magic...😁 I just listen today to Wes Montgomery Riverside collection... A must have astonishing 12 cd box ... I just add another modification to my self amplified small speakers by the way ... I am amazed... i ask myself why people throw so much money in gear and not so much in music albums... An audiophile system nowadays cost peanuts if we know what to buy and how to embed it... i am mystified by people who want to invest a fortune in a dac... 😊 Anyway.... I listen music not so much to sound , except these last month because i tweaked my new small speakers to their optimised acoustic treshold ...( with bundle of straws in the rear porthole to increase the bass driver chamber volume and i use a cardboard empty paper roll fixed around the tweeter to increase the focus and separation from the other driver : results is imaging better and better timbre and better bass extension ... Cost peanuts.;.. 😁 Nobody can believe this for sure... Most people believe in money not in acoustics... For casual listening many hours a day i use my small astonishingly good speakers now in my basement acoustic corner ... But for a sacred more dedicated listening hour nothing beat my AKG K340 headphone...It would need a costly set of speakers in an acoustic room... Pat Martino and Wes Montgomery are really guitar geniuses... Grant Green too... |
I have a very eclectic musical taste as opposed to narrow taste. I have always been that way and my taste has not narrowed with age. If anything it has widened.... I like the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I like John McLaughlin and Billy Cobham as well as the bassist Rick Laird and keyboardist Jan Hammer. All 4 have studied classical music as well as jazz and Cobham, Laird, and McLaughlin have all played with "giants of jazz" I like RTF. I like Chic Corea and Stanley Clarke. I like drummer Lenny White and Al De Meola's history speaks volumes. When I am in the mood I can listen to Flamenco guitar for hours. Paco de Lucia is a virtuoso and a favorite. (yes I own all the duo/trio concert CDs with De Meola, McLaughlin, and Coryell.) Drummer Tony Williams is another who is known for fusion but played on countless pure "straight ahead jazz" albums with Miles Davis, Jackie McLean, Andrew Hill and Herbie Hancock to name a few. I went to a Return to Forever Reunion Tour concert at the United Palace Theater in NYC 15 years ago and it was a great experience. I have seen Billy Cobham live in a jazz setting. I have seen Chick Corea live in a jazz setting. I have seen Stanley Clarke live in a jazz setting. Mahavishnu Orchestra bassist Rick Laird played with sax legends Zoot Sims and Al Cohn before becoming the house bassist at Ronnie Scotts Jazz Club playing with many "giants of jazz" who had a residency there. (he described playing with Sonny Rollins as a great learning experience). Rick Laird with Victor Feldman: Victor Feldman Trio - 1965 - YouTube Billy Cobham with Chick Corea: Horace Silver Quintet - Song For My Father - YouTube Tony Williams, Chick Corea, and Stanley Clarke with Stan Getz John McLaughlin with Miles Davis Al De Meola is on tour and playing at The Patchogue Theater for Performic Arts on Friday October 27, a 10 minute drive from my house. I have tickets.
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I did not like "fusion" in general for the same reason... "fusion" borrow from different traditions but stay on a superficial sound level often... Especially if the styles they borrow from are not near or related to one another... For example Bollywood music borrowing from Pop and Indian classical music... For example, listening to Nikhil Banerjee is a sacred event , listening Bollywood "fusion" is a short leisure at best at least for me... The same is true for any other "fusion" examples... There is very good fusion music though , lost in the general not so interesting albums mass... For example the "fusion" of Bach with jazz by some Jazzman...Or the encounter between Ali Akbar Khan and a jazzman... They are more musical encounter event and interesting , more than the development of "a new fusion genre" as such ... the event will not be repeated on a long term creating a new language replacing the two which fusionned for an album... Some tradition may be influenced by some other genre and integrating it slowly in history..,.It is one thing.... But creating tomorrow a style integrating two genres will not always be so interesting because it takes really genius to do so, each idioms being with his own rules...... I prefer more traditional jazz even free jazz to Pop/jazz "fusion" most of the times...There is exception for sure... |
Ah, OK -- I misunderstood. I thought you'd posted the link to that track as an example of one you liked on the J. McLaughlin record. Sorry about that! At any rate, it seems you are very clear about what you do not like when it comes to Fusion. Anything that uses synths is pretty much out for me -- Fender Rhodes, I'm OK with. So, for example the first two RTF albums, with Flora Purim, Airto, S. Clarke and Joe Farrell, I like. I don't know if this is actually Fusion -- more like electric Latinized Jazz. I can definitely relate to "becoming more and more exclusive".
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@stuartk Speaking in general and in broad terms I would say that in (jazz) music every time period has its own distinctive ’sound’. Fusion, with its arrangements, use of keyboards and other instruments has that too, even more, I would dare to say. The structure of compositions, timing, duration of solo parts, the overall ’sound’ I find very hard to listen too. Again, speaking in general, but I did not find any (fusion) music (from that time period) that I like (not even the album I have posted above) So, its not about the use of ’electric instruments’, but rather of how are they used. Than again, I am quite certain that with years I am becoming more and more exclusive and not only with music,ha,ha |
I actually own very few Fusion CDs. The difference I find with McLaughlin is his distinctive compositional sense which I very much happen to enjoy. If you like that track "Django" , then perhaps you will like this ("New York On My Mind" from "Electric Guitarist"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHFqkQIgMU&list=OLAK5uy_lkVyvWMUxcnJCYFH5S3Q3hwDgEKx-TxeI&index=1 I'm curious: what’s the difference, to you, between Jazz played on electric instruments and Fusion?
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'Fusion' is not my thing, so McLaughlin albums are rare in my collection, but I've got this somewhere...it is perhaps nice starting point for introducing to his sound, with lots of famous players featured on different songs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Promise_(John_McLaughlin_album) https://youtu.be/viDVXHyIbCo?feature=shared (Django, with J.Beck)
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John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana played on two albums both recorded in 1973. "Love Devotion Surrender" (Santana and McLaughlin contribute on every song. "Welcome" John McLaughlin contributes on 1 track titled "Flame Sky"
Using the Wiki Discography links, "Love Devotion Surrender" is listed on the John McLaughlin (they both play on all songs) discography under Collaborative Albums. "Welcome" is listed on the Santana Discography and McLaughlin plays on one track #8 Flame Sky. |
The one track off Santana’s "Welcome" : "Flame Sky" , the link to which I’ve already posted. Their co-led "Love Devotion and Surrender" album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIaubt4NWY&list=OLAK5uy_lEtxpyVbQXeGJ45TzyAcSxBg1DjfMh7go Santana guested on one track on Johnny Mac’s "Electric Guitarist": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmIaubt4NWY&list=OLAK5uy_lEtxpyVbQXeGJ45TzyAcSxBg1DjfMh7go He has indeed covered a lot of ground. Seems many people gravitate to Mahavishnu, the Miles stuff and the acoustic trio w/ DiMeola and DeLucia but there is much more to explore. My overall favorite is probably "Extrapolation", which is emphatically a Jazz album, rather than Fusion. Read the review in the Penguin Guide. McLaughlin played an acoustic with a pick-up, as he also did on "In A Silent Way". I believe Santana and McLaughlin put out a live DVD from Montreux... OK, I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KcWyZ8II0 I think you probably have enough to keep you busy for awhile!
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Well let’s see. I have heard the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I have at least two copies of Bitches Brew. I have a couple of Al DiMeola albums. I’m listening to “ The Essential John McLaughlin” ant it has something from Shakti, Mahavishnu, Pavo de Lucia & Miles Davis, Carlos Santana, The London Symphony Orchestra +. Wow his styles are all over.From Jeff Beck like to soft jazz. Did he play on any Santana albums? |
Well, I don’t know ;o) He’s gone through many varied phases in his career (both acoustic and electric). Everyone here will have their favorites and so, there are many possible entry points. Here are my highlights: 1) Mahavishnu Orchestra: "The Inner Mounting Flame" and "Birds of Fire" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bGlIdUiZww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mdGCqZTres 2) Acoustic Trio with Al DeMeola and Paco de Lucia: "Friday Night in San Francisco" and "The Guitar Trio" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhK_GFNq0N0&list=OLAK5uy_m3G0kqZEHRlJQRaPDPm24JHgr3sDg9Dmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUjEM4K-Y8&list=PLnVn29o5Rr-WyFmeqNMRD1JUfGPqbtFO2 2) With Milles -- "in A Silent Way", "Bitches Brew" and "Tribute to Jack Johnson" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHesqaMhh34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up9yWDl0jBc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50fB5L1vmn8 3) "Emergency" with Tony Williams Lifetime". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa4z_-2BLpo&list=PLXfrcG1laNyz1nIaTEytw-BtSDCBmgpqX 4) Two of my favorites from early on: "Extrapolation" and "My Goals Beyond". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6LkGwuimsU&list=OLAK5uy_mKm4NpG6DQs2o_fM-VCd5NOsejjFAetrg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd-JqnBWkro&list=OLAK5uy_ml8P0Xkvpu-LEkewJPoG9cdUiqbG3nQ9g 5) "Johnny McLaughlin Electric Guitarist" and "Electric Dreams" from 1979 feature what is probably his most gorgeous electric guitar tone and some of his most melodic playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOHFqkQIgMU&list=OLAK5uy_lkVyvWMUxcnJCYFH5S3Q3hwDgEKx-TxeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYCLuCgt5JA&list=OLAK5uy_kIO1rFHxsodO1wv85atNVojWcPRNBhVps 7) The group Shakti was an amazing mix of Jazz and classical Indian genres: "Shakti", "A Handful of Beauty" and "Natural Elements". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38RqK5GRhTI&list=OLAK5uy_kI4f7B6ucgN3izogXg0qWbuQFxmozmPOg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ3l_ml07Go&list=OLAK5uy_kmNvcwTDOV6zENZdZeqMTf1pDveEwdEcM https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shakti+natrual+elemsnts 8) Later acoustic trios: "Live at Royal festival Hall" and "Que Alegria" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuCDnUv3Ifw&list=PL9OZb2I0bFecdKWW6jytb8g_ht_Zqm1ay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHJjiIxLBNk&list=PL9OZb2I0bFeenX949tqsP4nCroUxodaBr There are many, many other recordings to explore but this is a good cross section. Also check out Larry Coryell, Philip Catherine, Al DiMeola, John Abercrombie, Bill Connors, Ralph Towner (among others!) |
@curiousjim A couple pages back I posted that Clifford Brown is my favorite trumpet player, second only to Louis Armstrong. A great box set to have (I do) is this one from 1989 titled "Brownie: The Complete EmArcy Recordings Of Clifford Brown" The sonics are great (mono) for a remaster over 30 years ago and the music represents some of the greatest jazz played covering 10 CDs, from August of 1954 through Clifford’s untimely death on June 26 1956 It covers 3 recording sessions with 3 of the greatest jazz vocalists of the time, Dinah Washington, Sarah Vaugan, and Helen Merrill. A lot of incendiary live concerts are also represented which are also very good sonically for live recordings from the 50s. A review from Discogs:
I happen to love alternate takes with all jazz music as the improvised solos are never played the same way more then once. Of course all of the superlative Clifford Brown Max Roach Quintet sessions are represented The box set is a little costly now but I have inserted a Spotify link to the complete set. The sonics on Spotify are very good indicating they used the 1989 remaster and if you like it but want hi res I would think it should be available on Qobuz. Enjoy!! Brownie: The Complete EmArcy Recordings Of Clifford Brown - Compilation by Clifford Brown | Spotify |
Just found out about this today: https://www.youtube.com/@GaryBurtonBootlegs @curiousjim "The Believer" by Coltrane is on Qobuz.
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You can never go wrong with Santana! |
The most creative saxophonist virtuoso i listened to is Roland Kirk... Wayne Shorter more minimalist is on par for me... But now i will make a place for Billy Harper beside them and beside Rollins, Hawkins and Stitt... Is there something as visionary saxophone music ? Yes, Billy Harper.....After Coltrane.... I listened to an incredible third album ( the only defect is that he sing for sure well and speak😁 ) : https://www.allmusic.com/album/if-our-hearts-could-only-see-mw0000060083 |
