half truths are worst than lies.....
Indeed, a full lie, one might easily detect,, half truths leaves one wondering = much worse.
I love all music from Schnoenberg, early neo romantic and late atonal master works.
I say Scriabin is neo/post romantic, as his piano works are a blend of early and a hint of future ideas.
I love hsi piano scores and took me by surprise,, I needed to mature to come around to his works.
My choices are not sealed.
At the start of my classical interest, I loved Sibelius,, now only his Kullervo and maybe his folk poems are what i can listen to. His syms, VC is now all gone from my collection,,, I havea huge box of cds that i want to bring to tulane U Music Library, maybe Lenny can give me $2-$3 for each cd.
I am cleaning house of classical I have no more interest in.
My 12-15 fav composers are now final, I will not add other composers to my collection.
= Done deal, Mind shut and closed forever.
Boulez piano cd has to go.
Stockhausen never made the cut, = cd money i spent better elsewhere,, like complete Hans Henze.
I am happy with my ohhh, 250-300 cd collection.
about 50 cds are boxed ready to dump cheap. |
Bruckner I can barely stand, but not represented in my now closed cd collection.
Only closed mind own "closed" cd collection.... Sorry for you.... |
By the way if you think Scriabin is only a post romantic you miss the point.... It is like saying Schoenberg is only a post romantic....Totally wrong because only a half truth and half truths are worst than lies.....
I cannot waste times to explain to your ready made hating/loving grid of choices called brain something that exceed your possibility of experiencing.... In music like in philosophy or mathematics, experiencing is understanding...
Sorry.... |
Judging a composer like Sorabji in few minutes with one opus , a composer who create monstruous numbers of heavy opus is ridiculous at worst and not serious at least.....
Sorry.... |
Music is like philosophical systems...
They are loved or hated by some....
But the history of philosophy and the history of music is an history of consciousness...A land to explore not arbitrary borders to hate...Why Josquin Des Prez and Hildegard of Bingen? Why Shostakovitch exist and Stravinsky? What are the mysteries revealed by their own creations?
I dont listen music only like some dish to taste with my mouth and toungue, i change my own consciousness in listening experiments....
I wish you the best with your love and your hating choices, myself i am in the business of discovery and understanding, nevermind my preferences and tastes...I keep my past tastes on leash but i create my new habits, it is called education...
« Crocodiles also have tastes, only humans have consciousness» -Groucho Marx |
Listening to Sorabji now as i type, Sonata 1.
Its OK, but at times gets on my nerves.
I much perfer Szymanowski, I love all works from Szymanowski, another late discovery, in fact my last and final search for the great composers.
No Sorabji does not work for me. |
Then i will vouch for my own Gods : Scriabin and Sorabji... But anyway all geniuses are brothers, only idiots hate....
Might be brothers as far as musical understanding goes,
But I do in fact hate quite a few of the romantic composers, #1 hate goes to all Ludwig Von Beethoven. I hate hiis muisc more than anyone who ever lived. More than Debussy and Ravel hated Beethoven's music...
That hate extends to all his students as well, Brahms, Shumann, Scubert, Dvorak etc etc, Yes I can hear the greatness in Brahms,, , I can appreciate Brahms,but I own no cds, and have no interest ever listening to anything Brahms. So yeah I hate his muisc as well,
Mahler/Bruckner, hate the muisc from those 2 genius composers. I really hate Mahler's muisc, Bruckner I can barely stand, but not represented in my now closed cd collection.
Chopin I have zero interest,
I have Scriabin's piano muisc, who needs the outdated Chopin salon muisc??
,I only recently awoke to his piano muisc just some years ago, Safronitsky please on piano, Really nice neo romantic works, His orchestral, not interested. Do not care for his orchestral.
Just heard a bit of Ostad Elahi, I much perfer Ravi Shankar.
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Then i will vouch for my own Gods : Scriabin and Sorabji... But anyway all geniuses are brothers, only idiots hate....
Try Ostad Elahi on the tanbur.... the greatest master of string instrument i ever listen to....Yehudi Menuhin speak of him like the greatest musical experience in his life.... You will look for it freely on the internet.... |
Geniuses know no borders....
My collection is classical, but not much pre 1900. You might like the super high genius (equal to Einstein as far as music, spiritual ideas go) of Alfred Schnittke. I have all his music, Also note Elliott Carter, Allan Pettersson(love all his syms minus 2 and 16), and how could i forget the super genius of Hans HENZE, have all his music, Astonishing. |
Geniuses know no borders....
Great post, I Like your sense of honest and humor.
Art is art, one should not so rush to judge
I watched a travel show many years ago, british traveler, showing us Kazakistan.
Beautiful but very rough climate to etch out a bare living,, at the very end of his show, sucha shame he did not devote at least another minute or 2 of this young Kazak tribal folk singer playing her small guitar stype instrument.
Just incredible,, I would buy all her cds IF avaliable,,I serached forever looking for Kazak folk singers,,but nothing near what magic this gal sang out.
Think about how much folk muisc has been wonderfully performed in mountainous regions north of Indian, all eastern russia. Never recorded, sadly, regretfully, we will never have the pleasure to be swooned by these magical folk stars.
But so, yeah, should we give so much credit to modern artsist who rely too much on voice mods via high tech gadgets?
My wife tells me do not touch her Diana Krall cds,,even thuogh she never listens to them, **I like Diana Krall*,
My vote is immaterial.
The public decides the vote.
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When you listen to the best singers there is in history in all styles, your taste ask for the truthfull expressive but simple powerful heartfull rendition...
We must prefer one genius over another one, but simplicity and ease, with truth always win our heart...This is called genius....For example takes Ella Fitzgerald...Or Billie Holiday....Or Kathleen Ferrier...Or Amalia Rodrigues...
Beside that we have the crowd of talented singers "au gout du jour" that we can like but never love....For example Diana Krall....She is very good.... That is not the point.... Is she a genius like Ella or Maria Callas? i dont think so....
A day of listening is made of chocolate cake and simple bread also, or even peanuts and Goddam! i like peanuts when i want peanuts....
I prefer the brazil nuts of Irene Kral to Diana Krall peanuts tough ..... :)
By the way i dont give a dam about the style, be it classical, jazz, folk, fado or even persian-iranian (Mahsa Vahdat or Minoo Javan or Shusha), or arabic (Oum Khalsoum) or Indian (Kishori Amonkar).
Geniuses know no borders.... |
i agree about Diana Krall.... by the way.... And i dont want to bash her, she is good, but i look for other than only good
Yes here I have some understanding about what i am trying to say over at my other topic... Some are bashing my opinions,, *I must have some hidden agenda*,, which if I made my point obscure,, let me be clear-ER,
+ Modern electronic gadgets have falisfied, made fake , some singers vocals abilities
Thats obvious,,who can deny.
Krall like every singer in mmod times has some support in the studio,, main point is our computers have allowed this fake , this sham to keep us all fooled.
Thats my point, Diana Krall has talents,, Not to the degree the critics claim, nor in reality.
Her Paris show was a bore, Just admit it.
The orch is wayyy to gawky for my taste.
= Not true jazz, = some fake modern pop crap. |
Eva Cassidy, Nightbird, 30 odd tracks, all recorded on one night, live, at the Blues Alley, from a truck parked outside. Can't get much more unadulterated than that. |
i agree about Diana Krall.... by the way.... And i dont want to bash her, she is good, but i look for other than only good.... My best to you.... |
I dont ask a singer what she dont have.... :) i like her for what she have and if it is good i keep her.... Comparing any jazz singer to Janis Joplin is not fair .... :)
Agree Janis was really real/not for real. Sure she suffered the feelings and comes out in her voice,,But ya know as with that culture, drugs really gavea nice boost to her natural talents, = Disqualifed , **I don't as, what she does'nt have...* So like I am surfing YT for something,,and up pops Diana Krall , the Paris Concert. So I figured let me give Diana another shot, maybe I picked one her slowest songs yesterday. Look, she may have talents,, but I am not interested. The band is wayyy too large, had she a 5 piece band, bass, guitar, drums, horn and 1 other member, maybe percussion, or another brass and Diana's piano,, I would show more interest,, But this orch she has with her, isn't doing me no favors to come around to her concert. Nah, both her cds on my shelf, have to go,, Either Goodwill Donate,, or trash can. Probably the 2nd option. Diana is just too commercialized for my taste. I know this post belongs over on that other topic, bashing overly modded studio voicing. I really wanted to keep this topic all positive, For Real. I will take a look at your recommend list today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQuDaIbpA1g
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I dont ask a singer what she dont have....
:)
i like her for what she have and if it is good i keep her....
Comparing any jazz singer to Janis Joplin is not fair .... :)
If i try your method i will compare Janis Joplin to Marian Anderson and call her complete rubish compared to, but it will not be justice to compare tomatoes with citrus....
More energetic, try Keely Smith "spotlight on Keely Smith" it is hard to beat...Or Nikki Yanofsky his cd " Ella" or another one "little secret"...
Marian Anderson was doing spirituals and classical recitals, try "crucifixion" for the expressive power.... |
Stacey Kent Fine clean, pure voice, for sure,, But the emotive energy,,seems to be a bit thin. I mean she does not have to come across as say janis Joplin,, but would be nice to have more feeling expressiveness. I know on some of her cuts , you and the jazz community no doubt feel the same. A bit lethargic, if not sterile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz1zBKoTCf4 |
Stacey Kent try "Dreamsville" or " Close your eyes"
Mari Nakamoto is an acquired taste and is not for all.... Try her on youtube first.... :)
Imagine a half broken voice in half broken english singing for his own ghosts in an airport bar in Tokyo with plenty of smoke and you begin to like her more with the hour.... |
Stacey Kent has make more cd than just some samba remakes .
OK will ck out others from Stacey,
Japan jazz?
will give some listens to Mari Nakamoto today,
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Try Mari Nakamoto a star of Japan Jazz with a complete natural style, and a sophisticated simplicity, the rarest thing to achieve in Jazz singing...
More perfect , Youn Sun Nah, the Korean Jazz singer which is too perfect, it is his only flaw....
Stacey Kent has make more cd than just some samba remakes .... :) I have them all.... |
Stacey Kent, Irene Kral Irene Kral, yeah now we’re talking, I just can not hear much studio tinkers going on,, really straight up vocals, clean, and natural For Stacey Kent I like her voice, but not the style of this remake composition. Seems to miss the magic of the original arrangment of Astrud.Gilberto master.. But sure, her voice comes across really natural. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZV2ySXezEU |
Listening to Ella Clap Hands Here Comes Charlie just arrived from Better Records. Probably your tastes also change. I used to think of Ella as technicaliy accomplished but cold compared to Lady Day. Now I'm really enjoying this album. It helps to have a hot pressing (rated A++ on Better Records own scale). |
Oups! Marian Anderson is rarely recorded wonderfully....Sorry... But you will forgot the sound in few seconds....Miracles dont cares about S.Q. |
Stacey Kent, Irene Kral, Jo Stafford, Keely Smith and out of jazz in the folk music and poetry Elena Frolova beat most others folk singers except his american counterpart Joan Baez....All have naturalness and simplicity....I dont like sophisticated voices... They all create some absolutely perfect musical recording if not many....
I will add Marian Anderson, the absolute queen of all music and the most feminine powerful voice i ever listen to....She sings anything at top level, and no other singer can do that....Who can sing blues like Billie Holiday and even better, negro spirituals like Mahalia Jackson and even better, and Bach, Brahms or Verdi or Schumann at top level ? Nobody except this contralto voice on par with the British marvel Kathleen Ferrier....She sings "deep river" for example better than even Paul Robeson, is it possible? Listen you will see....The great Finnish composer Sibelius say meeting her that she was too high for his house and he means it not only with his mouth but his heart....
They are others but i listen much to them these years.... |
Think about it,
Folk artists/singers all around the world, past 5 K years,, could not rely on modern electric gadgets to help bolster, fortify, embellish vocals which would then attract bigger crowds,, Stardom was not their goal.
Either the folk singer could sing or else he might have been booed and reduced to only playing his instrument and having others sing their tunes.
Thats my point here, how far should modern artists go inorder to achieve some ideal set by industry executives, for financial gains.
I have no issues now that i've heard Sophie Milman's wonderful talents from the studio, its charming and thus fogivable on any modifications.
Same feelings I have for Jacintha, excusable if mod gadgets played a role in the recording.
She has gifts and so her creativeity outshines any mods which may have accentuated her liquid voice.
How far should we allow artists to employ mod gadgets inorder to grab better out attention, our interest.
??
Less is best. |
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Sophie Milman's voice comes through with natural talent, her cds offer a wide variety of tempos and styles. Highly gifted artist.
Voice make over is never considered while enjoying her musical expressiveness. |
