Magnepan 1.7

I'm personally not big on Mac / Magnepan. In all the postings I've read, very few will claim that pairing. Not to say it won't work or be very pleasing. The few that have voted 'yes' have been good with the combo.

Krell? I only heard this combo once...on some 3.6s with the 400xi. It actually wasn't bad, but the heat produced was awesome. Because of the limits of my setup, no Krell for me.

If someone were to give me my 'wish'? Well, 2 of the short-list amps for Maggies would be either Bryston.....or Pass.

Another group of persons exists who loves 'd' amps with panels. I have a PSAudio integrated. Runs cool and has plenty of power. Some of the 'd' guys like the BelCanto line or even Spectron.

My 1.6s are turned backwards which is why I suggested some ...adjustments...to your panels before just getting 'more'.

Try this on for size. I'm in woodshop right now and will eventually do something like THIS:

http://www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag9.html

Magfan,

Good luck on the frames. It sounds like a project to which you are looking forward.

The Krell is still impressing me and I seem to have forgotten about the Mac sound because there is so much more to hear with the Krell.

I played an old Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" CD and heard things I had not heard before. The Krell helps the Maggies to differentiate the instruments so you can hear them better. More timbre and tone as well.

I own the 1.6 model . I recently purchased the 1.7 model. I have to say i did not like the new model better .returned for a refund . The soundsatage is smaller. The base is awkward ,Like it is coming from a small area in the sounstage.Dynamics were dulled .Very dissapointed . 3.6 are on my list for a upgrade.

Listened to 1.7s and bought 1.6. I could not tell any real difference other than a smidge better base in the 1.7 so the $800 price difference between 9/10 1.6 used and new 1.7 was not justified to me. Also, I disliked the look of the aluminium caps on the sides of the 1.7, but now I am told those are optional.

Maplegrovemusic,

I just picked up my 1.7's last night so this is a very early comment. I am upgrading from the 1.2's. I have started out with tweeters to the outside.

My initial impression is that the 1.7's are much better than the 1.2's in a lot of ways. Sound details that I never heard before seem to jump out of the things. The bass is really much stronger. On certain tracks I can feel it which never happened with the 1.2's. The bass is not boomy and is very articulate. The different timbre of the instruments is noticeable.

I think that placement with the 1.7's will be a bit tricky and understand your soundstage comment. They seem to need more space than the 1.2,s. In my first night of listening I was never able to obtain a good solid center as I moved the speakers around. However, they are supplying so much more detail that I may not be hearing the center even though it is there.

There seems to be a larger sweetspot. Also, I noticed that when I sat outside of one speaker, I could still hear sound from the other speaker across the room. Very impressive.

Finally, I was worried that the 1.7's sounded a little bit clinical in the dealer showroom. In my home environment, that is not the case. The 1.7's are engaging and musical.

Time will see how they improve.

Not that it actually matters, Dsper, but the 1.7 book recommends tweeters 'in'.

Also, in the interest of experimentation, after you get used to them, why not just rotate them in place and put the pole piece side to the listener?

That is the current orientation of my 1.6s

Magfan that is interesting that they now recommend the tweeters on the inside after all these years. IMO moving the tweets to the inside helps to center the stereo image, at least in my room it did.

Hi Magfan,

I started with the tweeters to the outside for no special reason.

The currrent instructions for the 1.7's, just two sheets of paper with a thank you letter on top, no longer recommend tweeters in.

They explain how to orient the speakers based on serial numbers and that the listener should determine what sounds best to them. They do recommend toeing in the speakers to the center of the listening position and advise against them being parallel to the front wall for better phasing.

So...tweeters in, tweeters out and then back to front...tweeters in and tweeters out...and that is before any mods!

Second day of listening - a lot of bass that you can cleanly hear and differentiate instruments.

Still amazed at little details that pop out at you. On some Stevey Ray Vaughn cuts, the hum of the guitar amps is clearly audible for what it is at the end of the tracks. On a Joan Jett CD I clearly heard fingering thta wsa not audible before

While they are 'new', they will continue to change for a while. I may not be exactly worth it to keep moving them around after first getting them into a nice spot.
Later, you can get more detailed.
As I approached my final setup, I didn't mess with anything for longer and longer between changes until I made a backwards move or 2.

Record keeping may be important here. Dimensions? listening impressions?

I could'a swore I saw the tweeters 'in' recommendation at the Magnepan site when I looked up the 1.7 book......

I had seen tweeters "in" on the net. However, the speakers were shipped from Minnesota the week of Thanksgiving and the new instructions do not recommend tweeter orientation.

I like the new instructions. I couldn't ignore them since this is what I'd do anyway.

Determine orientation by TEST is best. (nice rhyme!)

You've got 4 choices, right?

Tweeters In / Out
Mylar Front / Back.

I'd wait 100 hours or so. Caps need to settle in and the mylar needs to be exercised.

Magfan, you are not crazy. I mentioned the tweeter in position in another 1.7 thread. The recommendation is not in the owner's manual but was a seperate piece of pink paper entitled Magnepan 1.7 quick set up instructions which was stapled to bag containing Magnepan badges.

Hi Magfan,

You are right about waiting some amount of time for things to settle in...and then test the options as you summarized.

The main listening position that can be incrementally adjusted is as follows:

The speakers are about four feet from the front wall that is 13 feet long and is a three foot deep alcove. The room then opens up to 18 feet wide so that one speaker is about 3 feet from a side wall and the other speaker is about 7 feet from the other sidewall.

The middle of the speakers are about eight feet apart. The main listening position is about seven and a half feet from the line between the speakers. There is approximately 20 feet behind the listening position and the ceilings are ten feet.

The Magnepan instructions did recommend that the speakers should be toed in towards the main listening position. This definitely improved the soundstage and gave a focused center. In my listening space, without the toe in, the speakers did not focus very well.

While it is early, I still am impressed with the bass. It is articulate and I can tell the differences in timbre. I also can feel the bass if it is on the recorded material. This surprised me as that never happened with the 1.2's.

I am also still continuing to hear a lot more detail and it still feels like things are popping out at me and that never happened before either with the 1.2's.

We shall see.

Measure from the edge of the speaker directly BACK to the 'front' wall.
Measure from EACH side of the speaker. On my 1.6s, I use the little trim strip as the index.
My speakers measure EXACTLY 30.5" on the inside edge and 34" to the outside edge....both straight back to the front wall.

Speakers are 61" apart, inside edge to inside edge....from the same place I measure to the wall.

A little trig tells me.......just under 11 degrees of toe. The speakers cross well behind my seating position of about 10 or 11 feet.

Hi Magfan,

I do need to tighten up on my geometry! While being well aware that minute adjustments can make a big difference in sound, I have neglected the record keeping which will become more important as the speakers are broken in and I start to play with tweeters in and out, etc.

By the way, do you have any experience with sound pressure level and frequency response measurements?

Quite often, these items are discussed on various forum threads. I wondered what you thought about this aspect of our hobby and if you spent much time with it.

Nope,
Never measured anything.
In the case of problem rooms or maybe the last 'nth' of performance, it would be wise to measure. Maybe while installing sound treatments and other room modifications.

I'm dedicated, not committed! (or, perhaps, commitable!)
I've simply tried to make what I have as good as possible by ear. My ears? Questionable. Somebody with more experience and maybe a trick idea or 2 could come in here and slackjaw me with good changes.

Their is a role for 'peer review' in case you miss something obvious. But, I'm done messing around until I get to the panel reframe phase late next year. If I survive woodshop.

I have the Magnepan 1.7's plus the other equipment - Bob/Gary Backert modded Canary monblock preamps and CA-160 monblock amplifiers (also modded by Backert), Music Hall MM7 turntable with Goldring Eroica cartridge, Audio Horizons pnonostage, Cambridge 640 CD player, Zentara speaker cables, Enacom speaker filters, Tritium line-level Tri-phazer, and Zentara interconnects, and Dakiom 253 interconnect between my CD player and preamp.

The Maggies sound superb. They sound well integrated, natural, and detailed without etch. I have pleasantly surprised how good they sound with 140 wpc of tube power. They also sound lovely with and Audio Van Alstine FET-Valve 550 250 wpc (heavily Jospeh Chow modded) amplifier. The obviouslyh don't plumb the depths of the low end but they have enough low end heft for me. In my system I have had Talon Khorus, Audio physic Avanti Century III's, Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary speakers, Von Schweikert VR4 Jr's, and Spica Angelus speakers. The Maggies are the best speakers I have ever had in any of my systems.

Just wanted to add that Wendell Diller recommends trying the 1.7's both tweeter in and out. About 2/3 of the time it works better one way, 1/3 the other, but I don't remember at this point which is the one that's more likely to work :-) :-| Anyway, in my experience (which isn't with the 1.7's) it depends on both the model and the room. (The reason it varies from model-to-model is that the crossover lobe varies depending on the driver position and components.)

And while you're at it, don't forget to listen to the POLE PIECE SIDE.

Some preferences there, too.

My 1.6s in my room? Tweeter 'in' and PP to listener. speaker toe? 10''48'''

I have heard the 1,7 with

dCS Puccini + Clock

Jeff Rowland's 312 (1000 watts on 4 ohm) + Corus

I was shocked how good they are: huge resolution / definition, I heard such a definition only on Magico, absolutely natural concert-like staging of the musicians, definitevely enough bass hearing a Mahler Symphony at loud volume.
Amazingly beautifull loudspeakers for Classic and Jazz lovers. However I wouldn't recommend it for hard rock or techno fans, not enough impact ...

I have been away from this thread for a while and was quite happy to see it continues. I have had my 1.7s now for just over 9 months. The Maggies continue to sound better with each passing month. I have been backing down the subwoofer each month in very small increments as the speakers break in and bass improves.

I believe that the speakers continue to break in with changes not only to the bass but to detail. I now listen to music at lower levels than I ever did before with full enjoyment due to the tremendous detail provided by the speakers at low listening levels. It has opened up many more hours of listening time without disturbing wife and remaining son who is off to college this year.

Very jealous of Clavil with the dCS Puccini + Clock and Jeff Rowland amps. Even with my lowly but beautifully made BADA amp and preamp I get absolutely amazing sound and can't imagine how good the speakers would sound with such electronics.

I like the Wyred 4 Sound DAC so much I am considering purchasing their STI-1000 (I do crank it up from time to time). Everything I read about their sound characteristics seems to be a good match for the Maggies. Anyone use Wyred 4 sound integrated amps with the Maggies?

I don't know about the Wyred integrates, but several people use their power amps with the Maggies with good results.

BTW, I've noticed the same improvement in detail during Maggie break-in, it seems par for the course.

I use a PSAudio GCC series integrated. It uses the same ASP ICE modules but apparently different input circuitry. Both amps have a single balanced input....#1, single ended inputs, an additional output (to another amp or sub) and the same frontpanel AND backpanel arrangement. Built on the same line, I suspect.

That being said, the 500x2 of my GCC250 is more than adequate for my 1.6s. If, as you say, you are listening at lower levels, you will simply NOT need the 3db offered by the kilowatt model. Also, the smaller module in my amp has a 60 second max power time limit while the larger module limits itself to 30 seconds.
The difference between the W4S and the PSAudio would appear to be the gain cell offered only in the PS amps.

I suspect that interchanged into the same system, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

"11-11-10: Charlesjnicholas
I've had my 1.7s for nearly 3 months and have several hundred hours on them.
......
I'I much prefer them to the B&W 802Ds, Usher 718s, KEF 201/2s and Apogee Duetta IIs I've used in the same listening area over the past several years and would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking at speakers selling for less than $10k"

I am a happy owner of kef reference 201/2.
I bought them for my small room but now I have to move to a bigger one.
In the bigger room they lack some body and are a bit lean for my tastes.
Is it a downgrade going from kef ref to magnepan 1.7?
I will drive them with pass labs x150.5
thank you
Nikos
(I love the martin logan sound, if that makes any difference...)

Have you experimented with SETUP? Panels can require some patients in that department.
Also, flip 'em around. Adjust toe. Adjust front wall spacing.

Keep track of what you try.

Hey Magfan,

Are you out there?

You may remember that I received my Maggie 1.7's just after Thanksgiving and originally set them up with the tweeters on the outside.

Since then, the speakers have about 100 hours on them so I decided to start playing with the setup.

I just switched the speakers today so that the tweeters are now on the inside.

Fantastic improvement! The sound is tighter, more focused and more detailed. It is an amazing change.

For example, I have a Willie Nile CD called "House of a Thousand Guitars". The sixth track is a song called "Now That The War Is Over". Christopher Hoffman plays a cello line that you can hear underneath the piano and vocals.

It was...well...indistinct with tweeters out. With tweeters in, the cello sounds like a cello and you can almost feel the bow on the strings. There is amazing texture to the sound.

Wow!

Excellent result, Dsper.
Just a little messing around and a FREE upgrade.

Now, if you're in the mood for some futher furniture moving, try listening to the pole piece side! Again, I prefer tweeters in, but that shouldn't matter to you. Your room. Your ears.

Have fun.

Try it?

You are right - a free upgrade in about five minutes!

I am going to savor this for a while before I flip them from front to back.

Just seems a little too far out for my sensibilities at this point!

One other thing I forgot to mentin is that Magnepan provides plastic washers that can be used to tilt the speakers. They fit between the foot brackets and the speaker itself.

When inserted this has the effect of tilting the speakers slightly back.

I have done this and did not notice a real change in the sound. I have left them that way. My suspicion is that this would have an effect depending on the distance between the listening chair and the speakers.

Man, what a can of worms!
To tilt or not to tilt, that is the question.

You're on your own with this one! Some people may even install the spacers on the TOP screws to tilt 'em forward.

I run straight up/dn but will build some adjustment into my frames......with a proprietary design.

Magfan, or anyone, any opinions about the best approach for Maggie stands?

There seems to be the type that completely frames the maggies or the "Mye" approach which seems to primarily add bracing on the "back" side of the speakers.

I have heard them again but this time with all Krell electronic & CD player with top of the line Mit cable ...

big disapointement ! ... clearly a problem of combination

Krell + Magnepan is not for me

My PERSONAL opinion would be to go to a total reframe in real wood. But that's just me. I would avoid 'bridgework' in the stand and use wood. The MDF of Maggies doesn't accept the vibration from the panel which is where the problem lies.
The Mye stands make the frame more rigid and less 'whippy'. This is good, but IMO using brute force, not materials and engineering.

Just my opin, but I'm in process of designing new frames which will be both light and rigid. No metal beams or whatever. The driver will be 'floated' in the frame yet firmly held. Some mod guys even install strips of Dynamat or whatever on the pole piece and between the frame and driver.