what other brands does the dealer carry?
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Brinkmann, Chord Electronics, dCS. |
imo if you could get into a bartok without too much pain i’d do it without hesitation. it’s a great long term purchase. dcs strongly recommends using the onboard digital volume control but i remain a little skeptical. the bartok is universally praised and will maintain its value better than any other dac that i can think. of course this is only my humble opinion.
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Brinkman Nyquist Mk2 has a lot of fans and is supposed to sound very good indeed and of course has tubes if that's your thing.
But has always it's about synergy and imho the most important thing I have learned is that you have to demo at home in your own room....
Good luck.
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RFC what’s the status with your dealer? Just curious.
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@4425 do NOT count on it sounding better going direct. i’ve personally never found that i would be happy long term with that. there’s always some intangible element missing that makes music special. imho I have similar experience with the Select, it sounds definitely more lifeless without the preamp in the system. Following suggestions above, I tried out the Select direct then via pre, hi & low output. Strangely, the volume set to 100 via pre sounds better than either 106 or 100 in direct & better than 106 via pre. 106 in direct sounds better than 100. Overall, the order is: via pre 100, pre 106, then direct 106 (hi). |
No all systems (DAC to amp to speaker matching), no mater how good, will give a good result with DAC straight to amp. It’s not always fault of the DAC or it’s v/c. |
Overall, the order is: via pre 100, pre 106, then direct 106 (hi).
Sound maybe like bit stripping to me, how much higher than 106 can your MSB go? If this is the case leave the MSB where it sounds the best direct, and use a good passive preamp after it, then you'll get all the best sound of the direct hookup without introducing the coloration/distortions of an active preamp Cheers George |
While I have not owned the Select or the Premiere I did own for a number of years the MSB Power Dac Gold which uses the core MSB ladder dac technology. I was told by a MSB insider that they thought it actually sounded better than some of the higher end units (not speaking of the Select or Premiere) because it was one circuit board and they found the direct connection had benefits related to the sound quality over the beauty of modularity. Can’t have everything :) I owned it for years and at times it made some beautiful music. I did find it to be a little soft. I literally sold it because the little $700.00 Metrum Acoustics Octave knocked the living snot out of it.
No contest, speed, dynamics, flow, weight and musicality all went to the tiny little two box Metrum which in turn got its clock cleaned by the AMR DP 777 se which I still have and am listening to some 11 years later, in fact as I type this post.
I did think I wanted a Diamond Dac back in the day but when I auditioned it, I was left unmoved.
You simply have to listen for yourself no matter what people say or how something measures and I have never ever heard a dac which sounds better direct than with a great preamplifier and that includes my former Wadia, my current AMR Dac and too many others to name. The Bidat? Hmm that little thing is a freak which is why I still own one and direct, yeah it’s formidable. |
So, I have added a second Discrete Power supply (loan one from my dealer).
Early days, but it’s clearly more dynamic and clearer than before with only the single PSU. For example, I can drop the volume down a bit more than before without suffering loss of dynamic punch or musical engagement.
Very happy and will most likely order a second Discrete PSU.
Anyone know what the MSB Renderer Module will bring ? One of those “no brainer” purchases or only a marginal improvement ?
I currently run Coaxial digital from my server & I was wondering if the MSB Renderer was worth it to stream via Ethernet, If not I’ll put those funds on hold to perhaps fund the Clock upgrade next year. |
I'm curious what the rest of the system is you are using?
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@georgehifi
Sound maybe like bit stripping to me, how much higher than 106 can your MSB go? It can't, 106 is the highest number on the volume level. |
From experience with digital domain VC’s below 75 and the bit stripping starts lower the worse it gets. It sounds like less resolution and dynamic drive are what I hear effected, "almost" a compression.
Cheers George |
Using a Naim audio HDX 2TB server as a source and currently have ATC active (SCM40A) although about to go with the ATCSCM50ASL real soon.
I have placed an order for the second MSB Discrete PSU, it’s a no brainer TBH on how good it’s made the Premier DAC. If the MSB Renderer Module is equally good an upgrade, that will be next. |
hi, albeit belatedly let me share my experience.
I have moved from a NAIM streamer (NDX +XPS5 power supply) to MSB (first Discreet and now a "full" Premier with PowerBase + Fempto clock, -these were optional when i got it but apparently now are standard-).
Although I do expect the 2nd power base to make a difference I honestly think there exists a house sound signature between the two brands, with NAIM pushing the dynamics/PRAT attributes whilst MSB sounding (to my hours) much more "finessed" (no lack of detail, no lack of dynamics but at the same time no forceful push of the dynamics envelope either)
That being said and FWIW: I have recently experimented with direct vs going via a preamp and unless you pair with MSB's own power amp (which has a low impedance option matching the one of the MSB DAC) a preamp definitely increases the dynamics and liveness of the sound
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MSB is interconnect sensitive and impedance sensitive. Look to your amp and pre amp. Make sure you run the MSB as a preamp in any troubleshooting before you cast final judgement on the sound of the dac.
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I went from a Naim 555 CDP to the NDS, although I kept the 555 CDP. I actually preferred the sound of the CDP to the NDS server (CDs ripped to WAV). I currently run the 555 server, which sounds better than the NDS. The 555 server has a warmer, more analogue sound without a loss of micro-dynamics. |
Interesting thread. Looking at Nyquist mk2, Bartok and MSB Discrete with ProUSB and built in extra PSU. Have heard Nyquist MK1 and loved it but wasn’t listening to buy. Liked Bartok a ton too, but again a long time ago. Loved the Select when I heard it , but again never heard the MSB. Sucks as. I can’t audition like I’m used to. |
the extra power supply for the discrete is really mandatory in my opinion. Any component in the chain, always always opt for the one that has the best power supply implementation. And this case if the Discrete, just assume you need both out of the gate regardless of budget, find the money and get it.
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A decision to purchase a DAC at this price range requires research, many conversations, auditions, and more auditions. I auditioned several DAC ‘s and decided, for me, I liked the sound of the MSB Premier ladder R2R DAC and the supporting implementation. Yes, I made mistakes during the way but learned valuable lessons. I wanted a USA company that supported their products with excellent customer support.
I own the MSB Premier DAC, Premier Powerbase and Femto 93 clock and like it very much. The addition of this DAC substantially improved my audio system sound quality. The Premier has four prime R2R DAC’s, 2 per side, a separate power supply and many other features. The Premier Powerbase offers two dual-link power connectors, supplying four isolated power supplies. “MSB brochure say they use no off-the-shelf DAC chips, but instead makes their own converters. Each of the four Prime DACs at the heart of the Premier is a fully balanced, discrete, ladder DAC. MSB’s ladder DACs use precision-reconfigurable networks of resistors and switches to precisely convert your digital files into music”.
The MSB DAC connects to my Aurender N20 server using the Femto 93 clock to control the data transfer. I use the Analysis Plus Digital Crystal cable for the word transfer, so my DAC controls the data transfer from my Aurender Music Server. This word transfer from the DAC to my Aurender improves the sound quality.
I also experimented with an USB and AES/EBU connections for 2 weeks. After lots of switching back and forth, I prefer the AES/EBU connection. This is the only option on my MSB DAC. MSB offers several other options that you need to review and discuss with your retailer.
The addition of the MSB Premier DAC substantially improved the sound quality of my audio system. To my ears, everything sounds truly outstanding. The music is clearer, less dark, better bass and sounds more like music. I hope this helps.
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I’m about to have a home audition of an msb reference dac in my system driving a pair of ATC active scm300’s. This ref dac has the passive volume control, not the digital one. Currently the ATCs are driven by a Tidal Audio Preos preamp/dac (ladder) directly. So I’ll be able to easily compare the msb direct into the ATC’s against via the preamp of the Preos. Source is a Melco N10 driving the coax input of the Preos via a Mutec usb/coax converter since the Preos has no usb input, only coax for digital. I’ll comment on the results once I’ve had the MSB in place for a few days. But I’ll tell you something, the MSB will have to pull something special out of the bag to better the Preos! Watch this space.
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