Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@boxer12 It's the bottom USB out to your DAC. IFI don't say what OS they are using. If it's windows you need an ASIO driver.

I think it's as simple as connecting a USB cable from the lower USB port on the Zen Stream to the USB input port on the 005 then pressing the Input button on the 005 until you see USB on the display. Play music like you normally would and you should get music. 

Question: How do I get this DAC to see the USB signal from my streamer? Setup:

Roon loaded on laptop / IFI Zen stream / DA005

It sounds wonderful with the rca digital cable already but would like to try the USB (since that is what most of you are doing) to see what I'm missing. 

Making generalizations about usb cables, as you mentioned is system specific. I experimented with usb cables prior to 005, the one generalization I could make is, the more silver content the better for me. All my ethernet cables silver clad copper, AQ Diamond usb,pure silver wire. I find silver content in  streaming system cables superior to pure copper, with many of the sound properties you speak of. Pure copper always dull and less involving in my streaming setups.

I do think the usb rendering device is far more important than the usb cable, and imparts far more of it's signature than the cable. So, for me, key is get best usb rendering device one can afford, I'll reiterate for the umpteenth time, forget about usb direct out of vast majority of music servers, dedicated or general service computers. If usb is not optimized within server, must get nice streamer/usb renderer, various usb cleaners alone won't result in optimized usb. Once you get usb feed in order, which usb cable to purchase becomes most salient.

I presume non-optimized usb solutions would sound best with pure copper or mostly copper usb wire, silver or silver clad copper far better chance with optimized usb. Silver in cables, in general,  will expose every single mid high to high freq. anomaly in one's system, bass can also be somewhat thin compared to copper. Get your system right and the mid highs to highs will sparkle in a most natural non fatiguing manner. Point is, get the noise out streaming chain, silver is wonderful, noise is silver's worst friend. 

Hello melm, please clarify what exactly did you buy on ebay.. I never heard of “ebay” brand! We can buy everything' manufactured on this planet these days on ebay, good and bad! Since I was involved in design of USB interfaces it is really “interesting" to read your description of “brightness” of USB cable sound! USB cable must be certified and comply with USB international standard requirements. After market not certified cables could create EMI problems, affect your mobile phone and other RF devices performance. Is "AudioQuest Diamond USB” certified by USB committee? 

I thought I’d share some cable experiences with the 005. Just a caution that all of this is usually very system specific. Another caution, I was a "follower" of a recently deceased cable guru on another site. He was a master of identifying all sorts of cables and terminations available from a variety of places at very reasonable prices. He was actually about to launch a line of his own when we all learned the bad news. His basic advice for digital was was to go solid core. Of course, whether the 004 or the 005 we have the advantage of not being concerned with any interaction of the signal and 5V lines.

Beginning with the 004 I replaced a Supra USB cable with a Monoprice cable. Before you laugh at its price, scroll down to see exactly how it’s made. This was certainly an improvement over the Supra in every way. Still with the 004 I then tried AudioQuest Pearl USB cable. The differences between the two were very clear. The AQ made the soundstage open up considerably, but it lacked the sparkle of the Monoprice. It was just slightly dull.

I then happened upon an ebay listing for solid core silver cables at a very reasonable price. I wrote the maker and asked if he could make up a cable for me with 2 18ga solid silver, Teflon wrapped lines for pins 2 & 3 and a copper cable for pin 4. It turned out to be remarkably inexpensive. He did and when it arrived I was stunned by the improvement it made in every way, other than it did not extend the sound stage as had the AudioQuest. What it did do was give instruments the depth, liquidity and body the other cables did not. It was my end-game cable for the 004

Enter the 005. As much as the 004 had extended the high and low extremes, the 005 did even better. I started with the ebay USB cable. It was a mixed bag depending on the recording and even, perhaps the time of day or day of week. Sometimes perfect, sometimes a bit too much in the highs. I wrote earlier about substituting really terrific Viborg power cables for the Supras I was using. In my system these cables seem to act sort of like what I would expect from a slightly better power conditioner. So the time of day issues diminished. The AudioQuest still gave me the soundstage and the high end was better than with the 004, but it still sounded a bit duller than the silver cable. However some of the advantages that the silver cable on the 004, the depth and liquidity and body of instruments, came through on the AudioQuest when used with the 005, as the 005 has these qualities in spades.

I was encouraged by what I had read to try AudioQuest Diamond USB. These are solid core silver. I picked one up used and gave it a lot of time. It didn’t work for me. Audio was thin, lacking body. My observation of what was lost was something like that described here. This is a very useful article on USB cables. Over time I began to realize that the AQ Pearl treble with the 005 was more true to real instrumental sound on more and more of my music and I’ve been happy with that choice in my system, for now. But I love to experiment with cables--so I’m not done. I could use a touch more sparkle maybe, just a touch.

Anyone else here been fooling with cables on the Musetec?

i am interested to find out too... always fun and exciting to see if there is a true giant killer out there... (same for kinki exm1 int amp i got, but alas it arrived malfunctioning, needs repair...)

if a 3 grand musetec can hold its own against 7-8-9-10 grand well established alternatives, then it is indeed a real find and a boon to music lovers like us... other purported ones i have tried (morpheus, doge, tubador, yggy, terminator, w4s...), to my ears in my system, did not compare favorably, quite good as they are in their own price class

the direct sales model (from china makers and others) obviously has its advantages for end use purchasers when all goes right...

+1

I @jjss49 
We look forward to your impressions of the Musetec.  No one has ever said that it is the best of all DACs.  If it can play comfortably in the same sandbox as some of the others you have, that will be plenty.  I appreciate your effort.  Anyone willing to plow through this whole thread of 21 pages, as you have, deserves the Audiogon medal of honor.  
 

+1

Charles

@budkine 
Thanks for your review.  Sorry, but I couldn't resist pointing to it at head-fi.  In an earlier post I remarked that, "a thread like this carries more weight than a 'review.'"  You post is but another terrific example of why.   

@jjss49 
We look forward to your impressions of the Musetec.  No one has ever said that it is the best of all DACs.  If it can play comfortably in the same sandbox as some of the others you have, that will be plenty.  I appreciate your effort.  Anyone willing to plow through this whole thread of 21 pages, as you have, deserves the Audiogon medal of honor.  

Yes, the one thing lacking in this thread is where 005 lies in context to other top tier dacs. At this point, only Holo May Kitsune Edition would be option under $10k for me, this based on comparison reviews up to this point.

My perception of dacs jjss49 listed is, Chord Dave on it's own analytical, only top tier if tied to Mscaler, Weiss uses same chip family at much higher price, on paper doesn't entice me, AudioGD, interesting, lots of conflicting reviews, msb, I'd choose Playback Designs DP8 or 5, EMM Labs DA2V2, Aires Cerat Helena or Kassandra over the msb.

@jjss49 Your input should be valuable. I'd actually like to have every dac I listed above to compare in my system. I'd like to know what 005 doesn't do because I hear no sins of commission. I have heard the Holo May has better sound staging. I can only presume this dac may commit sins of omission compared to best?

@charles1dad ​​​​@arafiq

i will get the 005 next week, will take a few weeks to sort through, develop a solid point of view... it is a used unit so no break in concerns thankfully

it was quite a re-read through this whole thread... my eyes were glazing over several times, but with breaks i made it through eventually haha

i just sold the ank 4.1 (lovely sounding, but demanded too much real estate and was only fixed output) ... that said still have several others that serve as my own references (chord stack, weiss, msb on higher end, soekris, audio gd m7, oldie modded mf trivista 21 on lower end...)

These days when I compare DACs, I use ROON and the GROUP stream feature. I stream using 2 identical Sonore OpticalRendu's connected the same way to 2 DACs.

If you use an ultra-revealing and neutral preamp like the Benchmark LA4 into a pair of XLR or RCA preamp inputs, then the test is almost like a lab test. I can switch inputs on the preamp to hear the identical sequence of music on either one of the DACs. 

Another totality different way that I have used for DAC evaluation has been to solicit the opinion of musicians, especially if they have some personal connection to the recording. The person I am lending my 005 to is also a musician and has worked with a lot of musicians and knows how they should sound. So, assuming a recording is good, I have been able to get feedback on a few of my components and how close they are to producing an accurate sound. I sold a few pieces and rearranged my office based on the feedback I got.  A few musicians also post on A'gon, I love those posts.

Some months back, we listened to the 005 on few tracks at his lab but I want to have him listen for a month or so and get his professional opinion. He is lending me a new hot item (hopefully for a month, which I will likely buy). He had some issue with the 005 on first listen (forgot the details), but the main take away was that he wanted to spend more time with it since it seemed like an excellent DAC.

I will post his take in a month. Either way I love the 005. Though it is not my fav on my new 7 tube headphone amp. I love the Benchmark DAC3B on this new tube amp.

Yes @jjss49 has an impressively large DAC data base and curious as to how the Musetec 005 differs/compares sonically from his Audio Note 4.1 UK-ANK and Weiss DACs. Should be informative and interesting. Listening is far more insightful than just comparing specifications and measurements.

Charles

@jjss49 i was really hoping you would pick one up for review. While I have a lot of respect for other posters in this particular thread, I value your opinion even more highly. You’ve gone through a ton of dacs and don’t suffer from the usual fanboy delusions. Awaiting your objective review with great anticipation. 

with all the chatter on this musetec piece i picked one up at a decent price to fool with, try it out

will report back with comparisons to other dacs on hand before too long

I just noticed an ad on Head-fi.org for a Musetec 005 for sale in Britain for 1950 British pounds and ships anywhere in Europe.  It’s the first used 005 that I’ve seen on the market so far.

I’ll save you the trouble of going there to look at it.  It was my post. 

I had been shopping for a DAC to go with my ZMF Verite Open-back headphones and matching Pendant SE tube headphone amplifier made for ZMF by Justin Weber at AmpsandSound.com.  I was seriously considering getting the Sonnet Morpheus ($3200) based upon reviews and people’s experiences in various forums and its ability to pair well with my headphones and amplifier and recommended by Zach of ZMF Headphones.  With the Morpheus, the I2S is the preferred input.  But, I would have needed to purchase a DDC ($300-$700) with USB input, I2S out, in order to utilize the I2S input on the Morpheus.  However, with further research, I was leaning in the direction of the Holo May L2 ($4800) or the Holo Spring 3 KTE ($3l00) due to their compelling reviews and ability to deliver clean signals through the USB input. 

Then I came across @dbb review comparing the Holo May (L2) DAC and the Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 DAC ($3299 – I bought mine from Shenzhen Audio with a 10% discount $2969 and free delivery).  I then read the threads regarding the Musetec DA005 here and at Head-Fi.com, both containing compelling experiences and comparisons from seasoned audiophiles.  Within those threads, the Musetec is compared to several other DACs at varying price points, and the 005 holds its own or exceeds the performance of the comparisons.  That, along with a substantial savings in price, convinced me to purchase the Musetec MH-DA005 rather than the Morpheus or either of the Holo’s.

After a considerably lengthy burn in time on the 005 and some tube rolling in the headphone amp, I have finally reached that pinnacle of detail, richness, smoothness and natural presentation that I have been seeking for over 1-1/2 years.  I have a background in studio recording and live sound mixing, and the Musetec 005 is the real deal!  I am completely satisfied with my purchase and would do it again without hesitation. 

Thank you to all of you who have contributed your opinions and experiences regarding this marvelous piece of engineering.  The creator of this DAC, Jinbo Li, at mu-sound.com truly deserves international recognition and attention for this achievement.

There's a new review of the Musetec on the head-fi site here.  It was apparently purchased after considering several others.

@melm  I just wanted to give you some credit for doing such a fine job on this thread The Mustec traffic belongs here in your good hands. You have done an outstanding job making people feel welcome and expertly informing them. My review helped kindle the fire but your commitment kept it going.

High praise is also due to @sns  for his pioneering effort in discovering the 005. He is an audiophile’s audiophile. I have learned so much from his posts. Yes, “resolution with soul” sums it up beautifully. 

Many others, including @yyzsantabarbara  and @technorob, to name two, deserve credit. 

The Tambaqui is a highly touted DAC and that speaks a lot for the 005. Was the comparison between the both done in the same setup ?

No, but you would think a complete Mola Mola system would get a boost through synergy, but didn't happen. That's over $30k of gear.

@branislav I was perhaps the first or one of the first people in North America to purchase 005 two and a half  years ago, purchased totally blind without a single review I was aware of. I had previously purchased LKS004 with intention to fully modify based on headfi 004 thread. Shortly after 004 purchase I discovered 005 which appeared to have far more potential than any modded  004 could possibly attain. At this point I purchased 005 and posted my impressions on headfi. Both Melm and Dbb  purchased 005 shortly thereafter, both posted positive impressions as well. At some point I mentioned posting reviews over here, the rest is history.

When first purchasing 005 blindly, never expected much more than upgraded 004, something I could live with for a couple years at best. Virtually instantaneously I could hear 005 would be far more than intermediate step to something better. When I posted my initial impressions on headfi I had no idea others would trust my impressions, this being Chinese dac, relatively inexpensive relative to my over the top impressions, and being new poster at headfi. Obviously, some made their own calculations, purchased 005 and heard the same overachieving sound qualities. The rest is history.

I wonder how long this thread can go on?  Between new owners posting positive impressions and longer term owners making systematic upgrades it seems to live on. If I could think of one thing that keeps it going for longer term owners its the extreme resolution of the dac. We upgrade our systems, new information uncovered, always seeking to uncover more of it's potential. That it does it with soul is really the more amazing thing, high resolving powers without soul gets old pretty fast.

Still waiting to hear this dac comparatively reviewed against the upper tier, thus far its held its own against dacs up to $10k. Specifically, I've seen short term comparisons to Mola Mola and Holo May..

@branislav I wonder how much more posts we have to go before A’gon closes this thread down. Yea, a bit cynical on my part, but some truth there too.

BTW - next week I am giving my 005 to a friend who has an incredible ear and is a manufacturer of audio gear. He will listen to it is for a few weeks to test out his new uber gear.

@branislav

Thanks for your post. You are correct. It’s been a bit of a shock. I thought when @dbb posted his very strong comparative review that the traffic would move to that thread. Perhaps it really should have. For some reason, though there were Musetec DACs bought because of dbb’s thread I’m sure, folks chose to express their satisfaction with the DAC over here. And so it grew.

This is not the first component that was virtually ignored by the audiophile media but gained acceptance via a thread on Audiogon like this one, populated by satisfied users. Some of us have learned over the years that a thread like this carries more weight than a "review." There is no substitute for hearing the DAC in your own system. As has been made clear, the DAC has been designed by listening at every stage of its development. The quality of the DAC makes itself known pretty quickly. The willingness to share by those who have bought and used it has been appreciated by those who came later. Although not an inexpensive DAC, it’s been regarded as a relative bargain by several with a lot of DAC experience.

So thanks to Audiogon for making this forum available.

Let's be all honest...if someone told you when this thread about Musetec was started that it was gonna have more than 1000 responses, would you have believed them?

I'm about to conclude my Sunday afternoon listening session and I decided to swap the direction of the SR purple fuse in the Ferrum Oor headphone amp.  I did not like what I heard. The sound was less holographic, less refined, and more harsh. I just switched it back and things sound great again.  I've just proven to myself fuse direction is a very real thing.  At some point, I will perform the same test on the Benchmark LA4 preamp and the 005, but I'm in no hurry after this last test. 

@yyzsantabarbara Regarding the echo of the vocals on Band on the Run, I hear it as well and "echo" is the right word. The more techinal term for this is reverb.  In previous posts, when I talked about hearing nuances it was about these types of things.  It's thrilling to hear "new" reverb or to hear a hidden second or third singer that was always there but just now more evident. When I listen to familliar tracks, instead of focusing on the usual things, I focus on the nuances and it feels like I'm listening to the track for the first time again.

as soon as the MUSETEC has been run-in I take it to my trusted dealer and insert it in a 1.5 million euro chain, so that I can actually compare it with Esoteric Grandioso D1X, Mola Mola Tambaqui, NAGRA HD DAC X, WEISS DAC501 and DCS Vivaldi DAC Apex ... I hope I can send you the comparison photos soon 😎

@ortodox 

I own a modified dx7 pro topping with OP Muses, a Gustrard x26 Pro and Matrix X-SABRE 3...it's like comparing an Amir test with a Van Gogh painting, you want me to tell you more...

by the way, the Matrix measures better than the Topping D90SE ... why is it not reviewed by rubbishers or by those who sell ass paper? Are they afraid that it will take away the top spot from Topping? mmmmmmmmmmm

I’ve heard the DAC in my system, it sounds lovely, pure as a pure thing, no hint of any distortion.

This from Rich Trussell of Network Acoustics fame, he sold his MM.

I heard the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC with streaming card and Mola Mola integrated amp today with Dynaudio speakers.

Honestly it didn't come close to the naturalness of the 005, it was harsh and bright and a much smaller soundstage. That of course is compared to the 005, compared to other DACs it probably sounds ok.

The Tambaqui is a highly touted DAC and that speaks a lot for the 005. Was the comparison between the both done in the same setup ?

I heard the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC with streaming card and Mola Mola integrated amp today with Dynaudio speakers.

Honestly it didn't come close to the naturalness of the 005, it was harsh and bright and a much smaller soundstage. That of course is compared to the 005, compared to other DACs it probably sounds ok.

@americanspirit  -  amazing ,  to what Dacs did you  compare it  ?

@americanspirit  +4 Nice review. These impressions are consistent with most here.

@americanspirit

Updating the firmware is not required.

If you are using Windows, I would recommend you use the Musetec Windows USB driver from their website, because some people have had issues with the generic Windows driver. http://www.mu-sound.com/service.html

Apple and Linux don’t require additional drivers.

Also I would suggest you don’t use the power cable that comes with the 005, it looks custom but you can do much better.

@lordmelton 

the firmware version is 1.4, do you need to update it?
Which version of the files on the MUSETEC website do they refer to? 

@boxer12 

I will perform blind listening tests by connecting them via SUPRA USB2 0.7m cable to a Mcintosh MC152 amplifier via OEHLBACH XXL XLR 0.5m cable and to B&W 804 D3 speakers via QED Genesis Silver Spiral 1.5m cable

https://ibb.co/gjKmbrN
https://ibb.co/6RSc4Th

@americanspirit - Nice review. I agree, this DAC is amazing! Out of curiosity, what B&W's are you using in your system? 

@americanspirit Thank you for your positive comments, but you have only got a taste of what the 005 is capable of. It'll most likely start sounding really bad then good then bad until it finally fully breaks in.

Switch the 005 completely off and unplug it every few days to drain the capacitors, this will help the break-in.

As you and sns said this DAC is way out there in the value stakes, I really don't know what to compare it to.

@americanspirit Very nice! You're hearing exactly what we hear, 005 has ability to present music and/or live performers in room without artifice.

You're assumption it may compete with dacs ten times its price may be correct. Since adding the FMC prior to server I've reconsidered my priorities as to next possible upgrade, top tier server, a la $10k and above now rises above $15K+ dac. With the added refinement I'm hearing now, this dac has no discernible weakness in my setup.

update after 100 hours of Burn-In

Once the listening commenced, it was immediately apparent that the MH-DA005 was different from any other DAC I’ve heard.

The sound had the remarkable quality of appearing from nowhere, completely untethered to the speakers. This characteristic was certainly related to the MH-DA005 completely silent background as well as its stunning spatial presentation, with wide staging and continuousness of imaging.

But the MH-DA005 disappearing act went beyond these usual tropes. The impression of hearing music rather than a hi-fi system was profound. The MH-DA005 is so transparent to the music that I had the odd sensation of the speakers not being the source of the sound. Opening my eyes at the end of a piece of music, I was sometimes momentarily startled to see this pair of B&W standing in front of me.

In the ability to resolve very fine detail, the MH-DA005 is, again, phenomenally great. I heard things in familiar recordings that were startling. The track “I Love Being Here with You” from Diana Krall’s Live in Paris (a terrific record, by the way), is a good example. During the piano solo, I heard, for the first time, some very quiet vocalizing underneath the music. This element added more life to the music, accentuating the live nature of the performance. But beyond this element of arcane audiophile interest, the song simply brimmed with the excitement of a first-rate band kicking into gear in front of an audience. All the performances took on a heightened sense of urgency, energy, and spontaneous music-making in a way that was absolutely thrilling.

Overall, I have to say that the MH-DA005 is the best-sounding DAC I’ve heard. It represents the ultimate realization of the accumulated knowledge and sophisticated technologies MUSETEC has developed over the past 10 years, along with some remarkable innovations that push the MH-DA005 performance to an unprecedented level.

At the proposed price it is a real bargain, in fact it can compete with DACs that cost at least ten times more.

I would like to congratulate the designer for what he has managed to achieve, it is a DAC that should be exhibited at the MOMA in New York as a real artistic masterpiece.

At this point I can only define the ASR tests as garbage that has nothing to do with science

Thanks for the information sns

@boxer12 I've used Teradak 5V and 9v, Uptone JS-2. Presently using all Teradak (2 are 9v, 1 is 5v) with the three generic FMC in system, JS-2 presently powering server and OpticalRendu so no longer using second rail for one of the FMC. Can't directly compare Uptone to Teradak as too many changes since running one FMC off Uptone.

as promised I send you the pictures of the newcomer 😁

https://ibb.co/gjKmbrN
https://ibb.co/6RSc4Th

@kairosman That is correct. The best setting (as per manual) for DSD is BW06 and for PCM it's BW01.

Adjust higher if they don't lock or drop out or you would like a less detailed warmer sound.

@sns - Which LPS are you using for FMC optimization? 

I am having issues with the 005 unable to lock on DSD 128 below BW06 DPLL, do I have a ethernet streaming rate bottleneck? I am at 150 Mbps which is max over copper in my building/neighborhood.

For generic FMC optimization need lps on both, along with nice power cords on each lps, and going through nice power conditioner. I've tried generics with stock switching power supplies on one or both FMC, cheaper power cords into lps, no power conditioner, all don't reach full potential of FMC. And even with FMC, ethernet cables retain critical importance, anything less than Audioquest Vodka has resulted in diminished sound quality

005 potential such that every single weak link in network will be exposed. Continuing improvements to network have paid off handsomely for me. Most recent network upgrade was two more generic FMC, both with lps, VH Audio Airsine power cords on both, both going to BPT 3.5 Sig (modified) power conditioner, still retain all AQ Vodka ethernet cables. This addition goes between my modded router and modded server (already had FMC post server). Further lowering of noise floor, 005 simply sublime!  Previously, through many changes over two years of ownership, always perceived 005 as neutral to slightly analytical. With the lowered noise floor, refinement of 005 has gone up a notch, greater harmonic development.

I continue to be amazed by 005, never lets me down, continuing to explore it's full potential.

I leave 005 in standby when not in use. I have tube pre and amps so system turned off when not in use, tube warm up masks any possible 005 warm up time.

@lordmelton - FWIW, I knew that review was out there but pay absolutely no attention whatsoever to ASR's opinion on anything... The site is anything but interested in furthering the pursuit of high end audio reproduction. They make as much sense today as Stereo Review did in the 80's.       

@turcoda Looks like ASR's big plan to scupper the 005 has failed even if you were the only one who couldn't figure out how to work it.