New pre-amplifier?

I ordered a new new pre-amplifier from a dealer and they’re going to send it to me directly from the manufacturer which is fine.

However, how do I know this isn’t a used component that was sent back to the factory for recertification and a technical review or even a repair on a defective return by a previous customer and then sent out as a new product. The dealer has title to the product I believe so the manufacturer is just accommodating and working very closely with the dealer. I know that used products are often sold with a full warranty if done through a dealer and represented as such, which is fine. I assume these types of things are not like a car that has a master repair history connected to it? If I buy a new product how am I assured it's a new product?

Dealers tend to use manufacturing sites to warehouse products waiting for shipment to a customer at times. It can be mysterious. one manufacturer was willing to send me new equipment without involvement of a dealer, which is fine with me but certainly the dealers would have a problem with this.



How is anyone going to answer this concern for you? If you don’t trust the dealer and manufacturer in question to honestly disclose that it is in fact new and not B stock cancel your order and find those you are comfortable with.

+1 facten...How would you ever be assured ? ...Certainly a direct shipment from a manufacturer is not unusual practice...

Most dealers and manufacturers wouldn't jeopardize their reputation over one transaction.  Give them a chance.

I guess it’s one of those things where a manufacturer sends out a product new initially. And then something doesn’t work right and it has to be returned and in the meantime a new replacement product is shipped back to the original customer. And this is a good thing.

And then they repair what they think is the problem on the one that was returned and then restock it and sell it to another dealer.

How many times do you ever buy something used from a manufacturer?? What are they supposed to do with it after it’s been returned, disassemble it and salvage all the good parts and begin to manufacturer new products? How does anyone really know? and does anyone know what time it is. maybe they didn’t fix the product right to begin with and it has to be returned again but this time by someone else.

I bought a few audio related things over the past few months and they all needed to be replaced or repaired. Quality control wasn’t very good. And then you’re stuck with major delays in resolving the issue.


I'm not sure why you would even think of this, but at a certain point, you have to trust someone. Going through life looking over your shoulder ruins the fun. Don't assume the worst. If something goes wrong, it will be sorted out in the end.

I tend to like refurbished products from the manufacturer over brand new. For example, computers are something I buy refurbished over new if given the option. I learned this from my IT buddies.

I have purchased some audio gear that was listed as used and sold by the manufacturer. I consider then as good as new or sometimes better. I tend not to have issues with this type of gear compared to brand new.

You can never know for certain about what the manufacturer has done.  If it is sold as new, it means it is backed by their warranty.  I don’t see why it would matter much if it is a returned item being resold.  Not much life could be taken out of something that should last many decades.  If anything, parts subject to very early failure due to manufacturing defect might have been detected and corrected, and other parts that improve with burn in will have been burned in making the unit sound better from the start.  

I have bought many items from dealers that have been shipped direct from the manufacturer. It’s called drop shipping. I prefer that method, it saves time and the shipping cost!!

Drop shipping is a form of retail business in which the seller accepts customer orders without keeping stock on hand. Instead, in a form of supply chain management, the seller transfers the orders and their shipment details either to the manufacturer, a wholesaler, another retailer, or a fulfillment house, which then ships the goods directly to the customer.


I buy refurbished over new if given the option. I learned this from my IT buddies

Interesting. What is the rationale given by the IT advisors? Heighten scrutiny?


Normally I would say you're getting some good advice here, but how do you know we are not part of the conspiracy?

@soix Agreed. I’d go further and suspect this post as a kind of "fake concern trolling." One posts about some fabricated issue just to see if they can get weigh-in. The sort of game where you see if you can trick someone into spending their time on your fake-problem. Seems to be working.

Of course, the more pathetic alternative is that this is not a put-on, but genuine, in which case pity is the more appropriate emotion.

This same person has a post about a power cord issue. He seems to be a bit of a chicken little. 

@charles1dad Yes. When you get a computer laptop, server, etc from DELL for example. It comes from the assembly line in Mexico or maybe China. They do only rudimentary QA on that line (likely after final assembly). If that machine is returned to DELL they go through the unit more extensively in Texas. They then resell it on their refurbished website,

I have bought 15-20 computers from this site over the last 12 years (my work uses them and also laptops for family). Every one of those machines has worked flawlessly.

A decade ago, I bought a $24K server (price brand new) for $2k (about 6 months from new). I still have that machine.

@onhwy61 Guilty


@yyzsantabarbara “When you get a computer laptop, server, etc from DELL for example. It comes from the assembly line in Mexico or maybe China. They do only rudimentary QA on that line (likely after final assembly.” That is not so. After completing machine and hand placement of components on the circuit boards, they undergo extensive in-circuit testing using HP or Genrad test equipment. Once final assembly is finished, the boxes are functionally tested and many go through operational cycling or even thermal cycling and are run through functional test a second time.

In the case, of DELL they want to make sure the machines that are returned do not come back again to them again. I think there is better testing on these refurbished machines than the new ones.

Of course, some returns are not because of failures but of configuration errors, such as the $24k server I mentioned. That one had a 32-bit OS installed and required a 64-bit one (or it may have been the Workstation laptop it got). Though these configuration errors seem to be not the majority issue on the DELL site.


You don’t , and what brand is it and price , when buying a preamp Never 

buy one with a  $20  Alps blue velvet look in your preamp ,

prima luna a perfect example $5k and you see a round Silver round can 

which is just 2 plastic wipers with a contact spray on the plastic 

youwant a resistive ladder, or relay which is night and day better l

Linear Tube Audio makes a excellent preamp that is built far better then most for under $6k.

Why, would a manufacturer risk their reputation in this day and age, when anything even remotely underhanded is reported all over the internet?

Perhaps, you should go to the factory, and watch them build the unit and package it up for you?

Companies that sell direct, have B-Stock listings specifically to deal with gear that either has some blemish, or, something that has been returned.

Dealers have B-Stock listings also.

What would possibly make you think that this would be some kind of action the company you’re buying from would do? Is there any evidence of this? If there is, why would you buy from them? If there isn’t, where is this paranoia coming from?

I’m with yy.

I’ve bought remanufactured computers and and even some lawn care equipment and never had a problem.

@audioman - you have something against ALPS?  LOL.  Counterpoint used carbon pots in their preamps that were $5K!.  But that was way back in the day!  Prima Luna besides looking at the volume control, take a look at the names on the other parts!

Happy Listening.

First of all, it is illegal in every state to sell a used product as new stock. That said, B-stock, returns, or factory refurbs get another round of quality testing before sale, and so actually have a lower failure rate than new components. 

Some years ago I visited a production facility for PC Ethernet adapters. The entire factory required only 5 people to operate. QC consisted of conducting a POST (Power-On Self Test). Cards that completed POST were deemed good, the others were sent to junk, with no attempts to repair. It was explained to me that of the cards that would POST less than 0.1% would fail (1 in 1,000) within the first few hours of operation, after that less than 0.001% (1 in 100,000) would fail over the next 5 years, and after that, the failure rate would slowly drift up until about year 10, when the cards would be obsolete. Their MIL-Spec cards were identical, but got 48 Hrs of burn in, and cost 5-10x as much. For context, this facility made over a million cards per year. The point is almost all electronics share this same basic failure curve. After the first few hours or days, failures are very rare until you reach the end of their service life. Tubes are replaceable wear units (think tires and brakes), but also are still quite reliable after the initial burn-in.

That's why lots of us prefer refurb units. They may have had an early failure or were misconfigured, but as others have pointed out, received additional burn-in and testing, and so are more reliable than new, but cannot be sold as new, so are discounted.