I currently using the Vandy 2CE Sig II driven by Mac. MC601 (600) watts mono block and with C2300 Tube pre in a 12x12 room, the vandy is about 18” from the back wall and I must say the bass is very sufficient, good soundstage, crystal clear, and quiet at any volume range. It’s just a matter of setting the systems right. |
my vandys sounded as advertised only in a humongous room on the long wall. every other environment and position made them sound honky/shoutey to me. they will NOT work in a small room. my thiels OTOH work just fine in my small [14" wide] room but suck up the juice like gangbusters. they sound like the vandys did in aforementioned humongous room [very wide and deep stereo image, but narrow sweet spot]. |
op this ... by soix... is the only post that is meaningful so far...
You need to be more specific about what you’re not liking about the sound and what recordings aren’t sounding good to you, otherwise you’re just spinning everyone’s wheels here.
if you are just belly aching here, then continue... ... if you want helpful input and advice... communicate what is posed above ^^^^^^ |
left out Thiel and ADS and.... |
+1 mvrooman. I had a problem w/ my 2Ce's too close to walls, moved them 8 ft into the room and the sound is completely different. As for efficiency: for a while I was driving them with a 25 wpc tube amplifier and reached unpleasantly loud sound levels before the volume control was past 12noon. |
where to start......lets deal with the egotist who had an unknown model 2 at home one time back in bancamp...with a quarter million sold since 1977 lets say it like saying I drove a Camaro.....
Some of run a variety of speakers and can understand strengths and weaknesses. i am a Vandersteen owner ( 7’s and Treo ) but also have in the various listening rooms, recording studio and mobile recording rack: Vandy, Quad, Apogee, Totem, Focal, Dynaudio, ....Bryston, ....
how far are they from back wall ? Biwired ? internal or external . what volume level generates a text from the War Department? what one cut sounds right, what one wrong ? a sketch and some homework are in order, PM me and i will help. how old is that NAD ? in the brown faceplate series ?
finally its a big ocean, you have a system. you got some good advice on the signal chain.
finally, what a great world we live in where we have choices...but before ya ditch the Camaro, look under the hood. Ya know they built a few with the Iron Duke 2.5 L 4 banger...with the German Getrag box.... |
I had a pair of 2CE's that were in my main system for almost 20 years. The first thing I would say is that they are extremely fiddly speakers placement-wise. Need adequate room from the wall, and I mean like 3 feet at least. Have to get the rake angle right as well. One of the other commentors mentioned them needing a fair bit of power as well which I agree with. I ran them on Rogue Audio M120's. They seemed to have very good synergy with tube gear when I tested them.
You asked about recording quality being an issue and I would say that any true hi-fi system is going to poke holes in some albums that you love. If it's not recorded well, it's unlikely to sound good. I have albums I love that I might only listen to in the car because they sound compact with no soundstage or life on my system.
Back to the speakers though. Vandersteen 2's are great bang for the buck if you like that sound. People talk about accurate and colored or all these terms and the truth for me is that different people like different things. It's what makes the world go round. The question is s do you like the sound of Vandersteen. Like tomstruck said, I like it so much I moved on to Quatros and am happy as a pig in shit. It's difficult right now but going to local shops and listening is how you figure this stuff out. |
Owned a pair of 2CI’s with the Sound Anchor stands years ago and enjoyed them although at the time my system was an old B&K ST 120 amp and a Sonic Frontiers SFL 1 preamp. It was a pleasant sounding rig, but agree they can be on the softer side of neutral. I’m sure the 2CE Sig’s are better but guessing as mentioned earlier they need room to breath almost like Maggie’s... at least the 2CI’s I owned did.
Totally agree using a computer as your source with an AQ Dragonfly Red not helping you much. You mentioned Tidal but is it the standard or HiFi subscription which is the better. If you’re on the Standard subscription you might want to upgrade or just move over to Qobuz which I feel is better, but not really sure the Dragonfly will show the differences. If I had to work with your system I’d probably stick with the Vandy’s and work on the components first, but that’s just my opinion. As mentioned the Bluesound Node 2i would be a piece to read up on and consider. |
What are the dimensions of your room? I had 2ce's in a room that was about 12x13 with standard 8' ceilings. I thought they sounded good until I moved them into my living room which was much larger and had a vaulted ceiling. Completely different experience with the speaker really opening up in the larger room.
Where are the speakers positioned in your room? I found they needed to be a minimum of 1/3 of the way into the room if not even more. They excel when you give them room to breath. Playing with room placement is the lowest hanging fruit there is. It's free and can make a bigger impact than many component upgrades.
Your front end can make a huge different but if your speakers are slammed up against the front wall or in a tiny room even the best electronics won't make them sound good. |
The Apt 1 isn't helping...it was an ok preamp in '79, but hell, a Rappaport, ARC SP3xx, Theta, & the little DB were better back 41 years ago..(we sold each of them + a few others I can't recall)...go with nwres' post above & take it and other peripherals out of the chain if possible, before arbritarily spending $$ on another speaker chase. |
It's all in equipment matching and synergy. This is not a new idea. My experience with those exact speakers is a friend's system. Everything that I have to say here is obviously limited to his room and system layout limitations (meaning speaker positioning)
He has the 2CE Sigs, Audioquest Rocket 88 speaker cable double run (2 sets for bi-wiring) per Vandersteen recommendation, a McCormack DNA 0.5 (which is in at SMC Audio for upgrade right now), (McCormack amps are thought by many to be a very good match for the Vandy's), a Rogue Audio Perseus tube preamp (tube preamps and McCormack amps are a good match up also), Transparent Audio Super mm1 IC's and Transparent Power conditioners and power cords. The analog side is an upgraded Rega P3 table and the digital side is a Jolida tube cd player.
He is very much a "lotus eater" or pleasure seeker or "musicality" driven listener. He's very much not an analytical listener. I am a bit closer to the fence dividing the "musicality" side from the analytical side but, still on the "musicality" side. That system can be very pleasing and fun but, to my ear it is on the "midrangey" side which, I think is partly due to some of the cables. Vandersteen has its fans and there have been jillions of them sold. They may not be for you if you want a more "high performance" result.
If you just want to get lost in the music and want to not be thinking about the sound when you are listening, find a McCcormack amp but, be aware that the input boards in all of the DNA amps are aging out and failing. SMC Audio is the place to go but, they are not a repair shop, they are an upgrade shop, a hot rod shop so to speak. Their upgrades are excellent. I can attest to this due to the 3 upgraded DNA amps that I have. |
That is the way they are supposed to sound- they are Vandersteens!
Also they are ridiculous power hogs- 86dB! Why does anyone buy these things? What do you expect?? Sorry, but it doesn’t have to be this way. There’s much better choices around that price, ones that are so easy to drive you can go to a by far superior sounding lower power tube amp and have a system that sounds great at low to moderate volume yet still plays plenty loud when you want to rock out.
One of the few speakers I ever had to listen to in my room, an earlier version of the 2. To hear what other say, sounds like not much has changed. Do yourself a favor. Get some Double Impacts. That is the low hanging fruit. Then you will probably be able to sell your pre-amp and amp for almost enough to get a good tube integrated like a Raven Nighthawk. Which is more than enough power once you’ve ditched the Vandy’s.
Oh and by the way everything will sound great with Double Impacts. I have Moabs and am constantly amazed how much I enjoy full orchestra, jazz, etc., but at the same time how much better rock sounds too. Every recording sounds different sure, that better be the case or you blew it somewhere. But with the right choices everything sounds better, and this is how you get there.
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Some recordings are just bad no matter which system they are played on |
I have a similar problem with the list of music that you presented. A lot of music sounds great and a lot of music is so so. It’s a bummer but I don’t know how much more you can do to fix it. Do you believe in tone controls? You could join rune and Use the equalizer’s and different filters that they offer. That’s pretty much what I do, when there’s something that sounds like crap I go in and adjust it and listen to the album. I have different settings for different albums so that when I want to listen to some thing I just push the button and it automatically changes the settings. I think that’s the easiest and least expensive way to go do you feel like you’re |
You need to be more specific about what you’re not liking about the sound and what recordings aren’t sounding good to you, otherwise you’re just spinning everyone’s wheels here.
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Basement is finished - drywalled ceiling and walls, carpet. Anchors are filled. I agree with the "veiled" comment - mids and highs sometimes feel like they have a film on them... Low volume is not real pleasant, full, or thick. Higher volumes (when my wife starts texting from upstairs) can be enjoyable with the right stuff. Thanks for the input so far! |
Incidentally, I currently own the Vandy 1ci's with a 2wq sub and am far happier than I ever was with the 2's. YMMV |
I agree with nwres, that’s the way they sound.
Oz |
@gjinwi I completely agree with douglas_schroeder. I struggled with the 2ce for a long time. It is a very laid back speaker. Wooly is a good adjective. Colored and veiled are others I would use.
I tried different amps, cables, high-pass filters, changed rooms, and worked on speaker placement until I was blue in the face, but ultimately I decided that I couldn't live with them any longer.
I also agree with your sentiment that they sounded stellar with only the very best audio recordings. I would dump them and seek out opinions on speakers that are more aligned with your listening preferences.
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I had 2ce sigII loved them replaced with Quatros
you need a better source and DAC laptops and desktop have programs running in the background causing noise
what is the sound missing is the basement finished need more info
the Vandersteens are not the weak link and are the bases filled with steel shot and sand
its a journey you have to start somewhere |
Regarding your preamp, do you have another source like a CD player or turntable to test with or can you borrow one? If another source sounds good then maybe it's not the pre. For your digital source, I put in a Node 2i hard wired ethernet and ditched the laptop. Big improvement there for me. Then upgrade to a better DAC.
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Owned 2CE years ago. If they are uninspiring, move on. I found them over time to be too wooly, flabby. Learning experience. |
