I’ve typed this a lot. I have experience both in theaters and homes and built my own center channel. Here’s the absolute truth:
Center channel speakers will not help you hear dialogue better. They help you hear the center channel track as if it’s coming from the center of your screen. If you always sit dead center the center channel speaker does nothing at all for you. It’s when you sit off center, stand up, sit below that the center speaker becomes important.
You have a really nice rig, which I believe has custom EQ features. My suggestion is to sit very close to the speakers. If the dialogue magically becomes good the issue is your room. That’s not something fixable by a more expensive center channel. https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2024/05/the-center-meaured.html
Also, interesting article here saying it’s really not us, it’s them.
One reason I know the center doesn’t matter in the center is I have an anthem MRX. They are all buggy. They’ve acknowledged they are buggy and lack the previous generation’s feature which is to enable Dolby Surround regardless of the actual incoming source. Lots of things on Netflix are digitally marked as 2.0 so the MRX will 100% refuse to apply Dolby Surround processing to it but will still tell you it’s on. End of that story. I’m glad there are tarrifs on your gear now. Stupid Canadians...  As a result I have the stupid thing double blind testing me all the time. Effer. If I’m sitting in the center I 100% can’t tell the difference. If I’m lying down to the side I 100% can.
Their previous generation of processors allowed this feature.
One thing you can have because you have a nice Marantz instead of an Anthem is to use the PEQ features which I think you have to modify the sound track and boost mid bass to mid. Around 500 to 4 kHz or higher.
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Unless you can come up with a diamond that is large enough, you’re pretty much stuck with WAF syndrome. We all hope someday you win the lottery so you can avail yourself of this curse(Not the wife, just that you will be able to build a separate room for your hobbies).
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@soix , it's not as if my system is Bad. I'm simply trying to go from very good to very, VERY good. It has been stated elsewhere and, as @elliottbnewcombjr pointed out, it may simply be a matter of less than ideal recordings resulting in muddy dialog. My hope was that someone using an audiophile amplifier for their center channel can weight in as to whether that makes a difference. It certainly did for my L/R channels.
Yeah, the center speaker works properly, as the dialog coming from it is pretty clean. Crystal clear so I understand every word? No, but that could be a matter of chasing unicorns. I'll play with the phantom center to compare the effect, which seems a matter of removing the center speaker from the setup.
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@gkelly , I was similarly shocked when I put my front speakers on Isoacoustics feet; I could not believe the improvement. A separate stand just won't cut it in my space, and my AV rack is from years gone by. Convincing my wife that we need a new one to better place the equipment she already despises is a hard sell on a good day. Now if she were to go away for a few days and I got a suitable replacement in the same color, maybe she wouldn't notice...
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@toro3 , the ATVX is amazing in many ways. It is an ATV on steroids at a premium price. I thought myself nuts for getting it, and was unhappy early on. It took a while to come into its own (4 weeks) and I've come to accept it as a welcome enhancement rather than transformative. Night and day better? No; more like afternoon to evening, but better. Worth the price of admission? That answer is subjective and in the eyes and ears of the beholder. There are many users that say yes. My response is, "Yes, I suppose so."
I've had Marantz products for over 10 years, and am fairly familiar with Audyssey. Yes, Dynamic EQ is enabled, Cinema EQ is not. I played considerably with offset, have it set at zero now, as I found that sounded best. For a pittance I downloaded Secrets of Audyssey, which I find to be a good resource.
@drkenl , only with this iteration of the Marantz has Dirac become available. I had it on an Arcam AVR that I owned for a short while and found it cumbersome. It has improved since, so I await their Black Friday sale to save 25% on the purchase, as the cost of the software has increased considerably. It also requires an omnidirectional microphone, and that price has increased 50% thanks to tariffs. Ugh. As to the digital signal, I have fiber converters from ethernet on my router to my Network Acoustics Tempus switch, with an NA Eno2 filter between it and the ATVX. I invested in that switch to get more bang for my network buck, and I felt the system sound improved in both home theatre and audio when it was added. Could my network setup be better? No doubt, but here I am.
When I looked at upgrading this last time, I considered the McIntosh M170 and M180, which include desirable Lyngdorf aspects, but even buying used, the price stopped me in my tracks. The new Marantz is no slouch and will have to do for now.
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I’d still try disabling the center speaker and trying a phantom center, because if that sounds clearer/better it might indicate a problem with the center speaker. Worth trying to rule it out I’d think. Best of luck again in finding a solution — I know it must be very frustrating.
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I had the same problem with muddy dialog when streaming. (I have Focal Aria926 mains and the matching Aria center channel.) These three changes helped a lot:
1. I purchased an EtherRegen to reclock the digital signal going to the Apple TV. There are other switch boxes on the market that do the same.
2. If you can, use Dirac to do EQ and impulse response correction. Even better, check the speaker responses with REW and if your AVR alllows it, adjust the speaker distances to time align the IRs.
3. Maybe not relevant to you, but I purchased a McIntosh MX200 AV processor and the SQ from this device is excellent.
Good luck!
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OP: ATV X - had no idea this existed, just assumed you were referring to ATV. Within Audyssey do you have Dynamic EQ enabled? Any offset? Experimenting with this setting helped after my last calibration.
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@soix, the picture I have in my profile does not do justice to the setup. The center speaker is pointed up (hard to tell, but it is) and when I'm seated, it aims at my shoulders. Those are obviously not my ears, but if I recline or sit on the floor, the improvement isn't there. Placing it on the top shelf is a no-go, as unfortunately it is tall and would block the lower part of the TV. My listening position is about a foot off of center (my room limits that), but the center speaker is almost exactly in front of me. When I run Audyssey, I create a very tight listening position, and the software does a good job of correcting for me being a bit off center.
Focal's next level center speaker, the Sopra, has a midrange driver, and might be better for home theatre, but it is even bigger (taller) than mine, and would not fit in my shelving. I considered it for a minute or two, but I'd take yet another beating doing an upgrade. Ugh.
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I was amazed at the difference when I put my center channel on its own stand and not on the shelf.
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OP,
Looking at your system. I would try moving the center up and point the tweeter at your ear level (as someone recommended). My center is low, I used different elastomer pucks to angle it up towards my ears. I have no problem hearing the dialog.
Keep working... there must be something, Is the center channel tweeter working? You can see my HT under my systems.
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@toro3 and @ghdprentice, thanks for the responses. The Apple TV-X (see link: https://appletvx.com/) is a whole other device based on the Apple TV. I learned about it from the WhatsBestForum, and based on the feedback, invested in it. A key point the designed stresses is NOT to update it without his approval, as he tests them first and alerts the community. Some updates can cause serious issues, so its best to be aware. Yes I have played with Enhanced Dialog, and Marantz has that feature as well. I also use the Audyssey program embedded in the Marantz to balance the room, and it does a good job of that. There is ability to increase volume from the center channel, and I do that as well.
From AI: To improve dialogue clarity in a home theater, focus on speaker placement, audio settings, and room acoustics. -- I've tried some of that, but it's worth diving deeper.
As to my hearing, it is age-appropriate, with a case of tinnitus served on the side that is distracting but does not impact how well I hear. I've read enough articles indicating dialog issues in movies or series are fairly common. As my recent experience pointed to the benefits of a high quality amplifier improving HT sound from the L/R speakers, and my center speaker, interconnects and speaker cable are all very good, I wondered if some dedicated (e.g., obsessive) HT person had taken another step and added a high end amplifier for the center.
Or, perhaps as in many other areas, this is life today. I'll keep trying and am glad to learn from and share the experiences of others. Thanks,
Robert
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First, that Focal sells a $4300 center speaker as a simple 2-way MTM design is an embarrassment — any center at that price should have a dedicated midrange driver. Second, you have the center positioned with the tweeter well below ear height that cannot be helping. You should try putting it on the top shelf below the TV or at least try angling it upward so the tweeter is aimed more toward ear level. It also looks like it’s positioned off center so with a MTM design maybe there’s some comb filtering happening that’s further sucking out some clarity. It’d also be interesting to hear if you disable the center speaker and configure the system for a phantom center if you still experience dialogue clarity issues. Just some thoughts and some things to try FWIW — hey, it’s free — and best of luck.
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I’m convinced the problem is the people editing the audio know the story too well, they hear/understand it and are unaware of the poor decisions they are making, letting the sound effects and music remain too loud, too dynamic during dialog, masking intelligibility for anyone not familiar with the content.
They need people who don’t know the material as part of their final audio editing.
Listen to a band like Bad Company. They are very dynamic, but they lower their volume, background vocals and instruments when Paul sings, up/dn/back up/back dn ...... they do a great job and that is one of the reasons he is such a highly regarded singer. Whenever I encounter a local musician playing loud, trying to shout over his own music, I suggest they give a listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEPvv9pjIoQ
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Sounds like you have a problem... unless your hearing is very compromised your system probably just needing adjustment. When you equalize the channels, you can give a boost to the center channel. 85% of the dialog comes from the center channel.
I am not familiar with your surround processor... but you should be able to equalize the sound for speech. I would use an AI and ask how to optimize speech using your processor for home theater.
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I think that’s just part of streaming and how movies and shows are recorded. Both contribute to poor dialogue.
If the majority is through an Apple TV X - have you played around with the “Enhance Dialogue” feature? It’s within settings underneath Audio and can also be set on the fly while watching certain streaming apps - YouTube is not one of them. The only issue is that there’s a loss of dynamics when this setting is enabled.
If you can’t find within the settings, try updating the Apple TV - I believe this feature became available in the last update.
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