Path of signal from turn table to speaker

thank you optimize. I do try to simplify what comes down to a very complex topic especially when you inject opinions into it aside from the science and facts. This is why I'm glad to be learning still about Hifi audio. Its incredible how much detail is in there. 

it would seem then that the phonostage is likely more of what contributes to the sonic output and all its qualities rather than the amp (assuming the pathway is a separate phonostage connected to the amp analog in)?

EVERY THING matters! Do not try to simplify this much. But to not confuse you more it is good to keep us at a bigger scale as components.

But for example REMEMBER that your CXA81 uses a "DAC chip" from a manufacturer ESS with model NR: ES9016K2M. That specific one component CHIP have its capabilities that it can do like for example:
"can handle up to 32-bit, 384kHz PCM data via I2S, DSD-11.2MHz data as well as mono mode"

But that is only a single black CHIP with several legs soldered to a PCB. That needs a certain range of voltage to power it. For that there is many components needed for this "simple" and isolated task among many others.
For example:

• It can be a coil of wires (transformators) or a switching power supply unit (PSU).
• It can be close to the chip or in another physical box on the outside (distance/shielding)
• It can vary the quality of the components.

As you see when ONLY looking at ONE thing that that chip need to be IMPLEMENTED to be working.

And for that one thing with the few examples listed above (there is many more). 
THEY ALL MAKE A SONIC IMPACT.

That means that exactly the same CHIP in this case ES9016K2M sounds slightly different depending on (all the stuff around it) that is the implementation..

So your amplifier CXA81 on the digital input sounds not the same as another amplifier with the exact the same CHIP, because it is a different implementation. (Maybe you can argue that it has some common characteristics.)

That is number one mistake that is done that they are thinking that same CHIP in components is giving the same sound out.. ..no it doesn't.

Why am I saying all of that, is to point out that sonically everything matters.

But not to confuse you so much we can simplify and keep us in higher level view in forms of complete components.

On a higher level what matters little bit more than the other things? (If not mentioned that doesn't mean that it do not matter sonically):

• Stylus shape
• Cartridge
• Cartridge/TT setup (each of the set-up parameters can be done in several ways that may be more or less good way to do it.)
• Phono preamp 
• Pre amp 
• Power amplifier
• Speakers and setup
• Room

Do we get all those things right then we have in my opinion a good starting point.

But maybe my starting point is point is on a higher level than average Joe has.

TT setup is an art that I consider even some of the best is doing sub optimal procedures in my book.

Room there you need to have some understanding of physics and how boundaries interact. And where to place and types of treatment is needed.

There are so MANY variables that "contributes to the sonic output".

This is just a glimpse of those ;)

In essence the above also answer your second question:

This would also suggest the amps output from a digital rather than analog source should vary greatly as the digital processors including DAC are bypassed through the analog pathways? The sound character could be very different depending on the source.

The first class-D amplifier based integrated circuit was released by Tripath in 1996, and it saw widespread use.

Class T was a registered trademark for a switching (class-D) audio amplifier, used for Tripath’s amplifier technologies (patent filed on Jun 20, 1996). Similar designs have now been widely adopted by different manufacturers.

The control signals in Class T amplifiers may be computed using digital signal processing or fully analog techniques. @fuzztone

Guess you chose handle fuzztone because your system sounds fuzzy?

Yes silk purses can be make out of sow's ears but they still smell of pig/hog.

Class A is the gold standard.  It is now largely not offered because of the perceived need to pacify climate change zealots.

Class A/B is a compromise where otherwise competent amp designers have convinced themselves they can have their cake and eat it.  More likely, they know they're pretending.

Class D.  D is for Don't Go There.

Class D is a switching amp, NOT digital. Don't be misled by zealots.
It was invented in 1950.
I've got an A/B and a D and the D sounds better. It's all in the implementation.
There are Class A's that sound shitty with most speakers.
BFD

thinking about what you have heard, i’ll add this: in most studios things are immediately digitized and processed in the digital domain, using both digital mixing boards and more often ProTools software.

In the studio case, music -- often individual instrument tracks -- are typically sampled at 24/96, providing lots of headroom to process things without compromising fidelity (in theory). It also allows recording engineers to be sloppy since 16/44 only delivers 96 dB if level sets are done accurately, an art that seems to have been lost around 1968.
I, in fact, believe that it is in the studio where the benefits of HD are clear -- or clearest.  Really well-done 16/44 can be pretty terrific - but that is often shown by 1960s-era verve, mercury or other recordings done simply on tube-powered analog tape machines by loving engineers (like Bob Fine).

In a nutshell: no and no.
Its pretty straightforward ( i wrote "simple" and caught myself). With a few exceptions, and those are recent, the signal path is entirely analog. DACs and ADCs are only used for digital sources - and in 99%+ of cases those digital sources are converted to analog for most processing and amplification. That's the function of a DAC and every CD players contains a DAC.

If you begin with vinyl it goes into a filter that mirrors the LP recording filter (an RIAA playback filter) which is packaged with a TON of gain to bring the signal from 1-5mV to roughly 1V. Then to a preamp with very modest gain but lots of switching and controls. Then to a power amp that takes it from ~ 1V up to whatever rated output is - typically 20-40V. The power amp also adds a high current buffer stage capable of driving 2 ohm to 16 ohm loads and therefore delivering several amperes.

End. Unless you are streaming or playing a CD.

Yes, digital amps and processing are gaining ground, but that is very recent and still very rare. Class D (digital) amps are another complication not worth getting into now.

If you are among the 0.1% with a high end digital preamp and amp, then yes you would use an ADC and would essentially defeat the desired characteristics of vinyl.

Moving magnet cartridges need a phono amp with a gain factor of about 100X moving coils need about 1000X. I am keeping this very simple. Both need a filter that rolls off the high frequencies according to a long-established standard. At 1 kHz this requires yet another ~7X gain, assuming it is performed passively.
G

The CXA81 contains a built in DAC, it will take a digital input and convert it to analogue, the amplification is in the analogue domain. There are also other purely analogue inputs that will accept a line level analogue signal such as that put out by your Rega phono stage. The output stage is class AB.

Lewm it would seem then that the phonostage is likely more of what contributes to the sonic output and all its qualities rather than the amp (assuming the pathway is a separate phonostage connected to the amp analog in)? This would also suggest the amps output from a digital rather than analog source should vary greatly as the digital processors including DAC are bypassed through the analog pathways? The sound character could be very different depending on the source. I mention this since many people like to talk about the sonal character of a particular amp. 

Lewm thank you so much for the description. Its a funny thing but I have read all kinds of forums and such but it still gets me confused when I start looking at components again. I am using the rega phonostage so I would not need the amp to have a phono. It is functioning only as the preamp and amp. I might be referring to the fact like you said some amps have a phono stage. I'm glad I posted because everyone's answers have helped me get some of the details down. My concern was always that the amp would itself process the signal through all these digital pathways which defeats the purpose. As long as I am running the phonostage from rega I just need to connect to the analog line in and be done with it. I'm overthinking things. 

Good answers  guys. No Dac is needed .But you need a phono stage pre amp.If there is none built into your amp. Play your vinyl and enjoy.

I think I now understand the source of your confusion. I looked up the Cambridge audio CXA 81, which you say is your amplifier. The product is an integrated amplifier of the type I just described. It incorporates a line stage and an amplifier on one chassis. But it also incorporates a digital to analog converter(DAC). That section of the amplifier should be regarded as an accessory to its major purpose. You can feed the DAC section a digital signal direct from for example a CD player or a CD transport and it will convert the digital signal to analog to feed the line stage and amplifier. This has nothing to do with the basic pathway of the amplification system. I am not sure whether your Cambridge Audio device also has a built in phono stage, but if it does not, you need that also to play records.

There is one more variant that probably ought to be mentioned. There are also products called integrated amplifiers. An integrated amplifier can sometimes contain a phono stage, a line stage, and an amplifier, all in one box. Other integrated amplifiers would contain a linestage and amplifier all in one box, but no phono section. And that latter case you would have to purchase a phono stage separately.

Mijo, was it really necessary to further confuse the OP? It’s fine to know that you have a analog system that incorporates digital processing and/or is controlled by a digital processor. We all understand that, but it most likely will confuse the OP. To the OP, all the advice you have received above is basically correct. There is no need for conversion to digital or from digital to analog in the pathway from a phono cartridge to your speakers. As someone else wrote, you need a phono stage or a phono section to amplify the signal from the phono cartridge and equalize it according to a certain algorithm that is standard. That amplified and equalized signal then is fed to a line stage. The line stage is really there only to allow you to Select from among several input sources, to include your record player, your CD player, your  tape recorder. The line stage does very little else besides switching, but most of them add a little gain as well. Then the line stage drives an amplifier. In many cases a device that we call a pre-amplifier will contain a phono stage and a line stage all in one box. There are many ways to do that.  Amplifiers do not commonly have any digital electronics inside. A classical amplifier is an all analog device. Like Chakster said, you need to choose an amplifier that has sufficient power to drive your speakers to sound pressure levels that are suitable for you in your particular listening room.

Well no Chakster not quite nonsense. Controversial maybe. My system is digitally controlled. I use full spectrum room control, frequency response alterations and digital bass management. This is all done in 48/192.
In order to use my turntables in this system I have a Benchmark ADC on the output of an ARC phono amp which converts to 24/192. 4 channels of DAC revert all to analog right in front of the amplifiers. So with High Res files I am digital all the way to the amps. 
According to Michel Fremer 24/192 is invisible. He converts Vinyl to digital files routinely using the same program I use, Channel D's Pure Vinyl. 

 I thought that last part would necessitate processing through the amps DAC as the final step before stereo output.

It has nothing to to with turntable and analog signal. 

If you're listening to digital source then you need a DAC.

For analog source you don't need a DAC at all (it's nonsense).

You need DAC only if you want to convert your records to a digital files for use on your computer or media player. 

The amp must be matched to the speakers, there are low power amps and high power amps. There are also low efficient speaker and high efficient speakers. A low power amp designed for high efficient speakers only. 

Everything will affect the sound, even your room size.

Thanks to everyone for the answers. It has helped me clear of things up. I mistyped in my post as well. I have the rega TT- rega phono- CXA81 then speakers. Reading all your responses I realize my question has been more about the last path through the amp. I thought that last part would necessitate processing through the amps DAC as the final step before stereo output. If not then it would seem any amp should do decently through this circuit assuming power needs are met. Other sites i have read have always suggested the amp is not a "silent" partner and will greatly alter the final signal. 

What kind of ''signal'' is coming from TT? Without cartridge there
will be no signal at all. Then different kinds of cartridges have
diffrent ''signal''. Connecting MC cart to an MM input will not
produce ''desired signal''. As mentioned so often : ''it depends...
Inventing questions is differetn kind of  thinking than answering
questions. 

Hi all, if you could humor a fledgling "audiophile" still learning... can anyone specify how a signal get from a turntable to the speakers? My understanding is that pure analog circuits are for many reasons not common. This means that the signal must first be converted by an ADC (analog to dig convertor). This signal then travels through the amp circuitry and eventually reaches a DAC which then outputs to the speaker. Is this decently accurate?

What a nightmare, please awake.

I know that amps all differ in there capabilities but the basic formula does not change. Analog signal to digital and then back to analog.

If you’re living in a digital world please try to understand the digital wasn’t there when your parents or grandparents enjoyed vinyl, reel to reel to cassettes. How about those amps? Ever heard about tube amps? :)

First digital device appeared on the market in 1982 and it was a CD player.

First class-T (or class D) digital amp invented in 1996, read here. Those class-d are the cheapest amps available today, mostly from China. This is only ONE specific kind of an amp which you can call a digital amp.

The rest of the amps (except for hybrid amps) are 100% analog, not digital.

When purchasing an amp for records... should i basically just purchase for that amps capabilities and nothing else from the input standpoint?

An amp for record is a phono preamp (aka phono stage) with RIAA correction. The rest of the Hi-Fi amps are for line level signal, so you can connect everything direct, except for the MIC.

Now we have many different amps on the market: tube amps, solid state amps, hybrid amps, chip amps aka class-t ...

If you want to enjoy vinyl stay analog (100%), signal picked up by the phono cartridge is analog signal, you don't have to convert it to digital at all. All you need is to reproduce 100% analog signal using a cartridge, tonearm, turntable, phono stage, amp, speakers. They are all analog devices.  

There are turntables with inbuilt ADCs and a USB output but these are generally not taken seriously. There are also phono pre amps that digitise, I think Linn have one and Devialet do this too, the wisdom of doing so is debatable.
Most modern recordings are though digital and converted to analog for pressing to LP. It remains a source of puzzlement that such an LP played back on a good turntable through analog amplification can beat the digital file of the same recording, both played on similarly priced but carefully setup equipment. 

Right. Its all analog. There is no digital at any point. The signal in the record groove is analog, but it is equalized with bass way down and treble way up in what is called RIAA equalization. Its also very low level (volume). You can play a record back without a phono stage but it will not be very loud and it will sound tinny with no bass. The phono stage amplifies this weak signal and equalizes it to sound right. Its one of the most essential and difficult things to do in all of audio because the signal is so weak and involves so much EQ. 

The phono stage is all analog. But it can be all tube, part tube and part solid state, or all solid state. It can be a separate component or it can be a card or circuit built into a pre-amp or integrated amp. There's a lot of different ways to do it, and that may be where some of the confusion is coming from. 

One amp or phono stage differs from another tremendously. Because of the tremendous gain and EQ its one of the widest ranges of sound you will find and makes a huge improvement when you get it right.

Forget DAC and all digital for a minute.
Phono amp > Preamp > Power amp > speaker.
All of these can be analog. In fact it’s preferable.
The phono amp is special. It contains equalization circuitry to compensate for the frequency curve needed to cut a record.
The Preamp drives the power amp and allows selection of sources. It can have a DAC built in. The pre and power can be together in an integrated amp.