Jim thanks for the gracious compliment. I truly respect and appreciate peoples knowledge here as I become involved in this hobby.
Take care,
Peter
Take care,
Peter
Please help with speaker choices
Hi all,
Well the room and time has lead me down the road to upgrading speakers. A most exciting time, but alas, filled with choices and no possible auditioning for me.
So I must relie on this communities suggestions and help!!
First the current system:
Nick Doshi Preamp
Nick Doshi modded Lectron JH50
Amazon Referenze TT
Triplanar Tonearm
CDP-Don't have one yet
Focal 1007 Be Monitors-current speakers
Room Size:
21 by 13 with 8ft cellings
Music:
I listen to pretty much everything. Sorry for being so general. In one listening session I may move from Coltrane, to Cannonball Adderly, to Muddy Waters and Johnny Lee Hooker to Lucinda Williams and electric/folk Neil Young. Throw in some Dylan and then move onto the White Stripes, Beck, if I'm real rowdy maybe some Ramones or AC/DC, then come down with some Edith Piaf and a sip of 12 year single malt.
Reason for wantng change:
One is I find this a hobby. For me that means having fun with experimentation. So far I have only owned the Focals.
Two is now that I moved my system against the short wall and facing out to the long part of the room, the monitors seems lacking, like they are too small to fill the space, like it is too much effort. Three is I have nerver had a floorstanding speaker and the prospect excites me. Four is, sitting wise, I can only get about 9 feet near to the Focals. To place them closer puts them right in the middle of the living room. Not really acceptable. At 9 feet, the monitors just not presenting the soundstage I desire. At that distance with monitors, I am just not in the heart of the music.
Also something important to note is I like listening loud, but do not always have that option as my system is in the living room and out of respect for others cannot always listen loud so I must have speakers that offer low volume detail.
My choices so far (more of course welcome)
Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders
Merlin VSM-Mxe
Verity Fidelio Encore
ATC 20's passive
At the higher end(only consider if HIGHLY recommended)
Verity Parsifal ovation
Sonus Faber Amati Homage
Monitors I might consider
Focal Mini-Utopia Be
Sonus Guarnari Homage
OK, sorry for rambling so much. Obviously I am putting a lot of thought into this. Any input much appreciated!
Peter
Well the room and time has lead me down the road to upgrading speakers. A most exciting time, but alas, filled with choices and no possible auditioning for me.
So I must relie on this communities suggestions and help!!
First the current system:
Nick Doshi Preamp
Nick Doshi modded Lectron JH50
Amazon Referenze TT
Triplanar Tonearm
CDP-Don't have one yet
Focal 1007 Be Monitors-current speakers
Room Size:
21 by 13 with 8ft cellings
Music:
I listen to pretty much everything. Sorry for being so general. In one listening session I may move from Coltrane, to Cannonball Adderly, to Muddy Waters and Johnny Lee Hooker to Lucinda Williams and electric/folk Neil Young. Throw in some Dylan and then move onto the White Stripes, Beck, if I'm real rowdy maybe some Ramones or AC/DC, then come down with some Edith Piaf and a sip of 12 year single malt.
Reason for wantng change:
One is I find this a hobby. For me that means having fun with experimentation. So far I have only owned the Focals.
Two is now that I moved my system against the short wall and facing out to the long part of the room, the monitors seems lacking, like they are too small to fill the space, like it is too much effort. Three is I have nerver had a floorstanding speaker and the prospect excites me. Four is, sitting wise, I can only get about 9 feet near to the Focals. To place them closer puts them right in the middle of the living room. Not really acceptable. At 9 feet, the monitors just not presenting the soundstage I desire. At that distance with monitors, I am just not in the heart of the music.
Also something important to note is I like listening loud, but do not always have that option as my system is in the living room and out of respect for others cannot always listen loud so I must have speakers that offer low volume detail.
My choices so far (more of course welcome)
Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders
Merlin VSM-Mxe
Verity Fidelio Encore
ATC 20's passive
At the higher end(only consider if HIGHLY recommended)
Verity Parsifal ovation
Sonus Faber Amati Homage
Monitors I might consider
Focal Mini-Utopia Be
Sonus Guarnari Homage
OK, sorry for rambling so much. Obviously I am putting a lot of thought into this. Any input much appreciated!
Peter
68 responses Add your response
Hi Peter. I have been following this blog for a little while. I think I made an entry myself early on. I just want to say to you that I am totally blown away by your gracious response to everyones blogs. You are a model of what civilized behavior should be about. Thank you for your contributions to this website. Jim |
Oh thanks there Dan. I was worried for a moment there. 2.5-3 feet is all I got!! So nop rear-ported speakers eh? Does that rule out the verty's? I can turn the base around to face out, although I have had people tell me it sounds better firing against the wall? The reverberation from the clap is quick and dies solidly with out any continuing echos. So that might be alright? Wife will probably not be interested in any type of acousric treatments, but plants, pillows, ok! Whats "you may benefit from LF do to room gain" mean? Cheers |
2.5 feet is bad. You may benefit in LF do to room gain. But you might think twice about any rear-ported speakers. Your speakers will be about 7 feet apart, which also isn't bad for the 10' distance. Once you have them setup you may talk the wife into moving the listening position forward or back a foot or so to hit the sweet spot. How long does the clap echo last? A couple of reverberations isn't too big of a deal. You don't want the room too dead. Now, if the clap really bounces around you could add some plants, stuffed chairs, pillows, etc. I doubt you'll ever get the wife to agree to bass traps, corner traps, and all that other acoustic treatment stuff. |
Alcohol it is!! Tim thanks for the decription. That was going to be my next series of questions, given my room constraints how do folks see certain speakers fitting into my space. There are severqal issues. Facing the speakers, the one on the right can only get about 2.5 ft off the long wall. On the left side, its about 5 ft to the long wall. Both speakers, because my couch splits the room basically in half, can only be about 2.5 feet off the wall. That might make for far field listening, me sitting about 10 feet from the speakers. I wish I could get more off the wall, but my better half does not want them sticking out into the room to much and honestly the way our living space is set-up to bring them further into the room really almost puts the left speaker right in the entry way, which sits on the left side of the room. So I have to ask, condiering those contraints which in the suggested does well with those contraints. Also, i have a question about room accustics. When I clap my hands in the room, I hear a definate echo. Does that mean I need more dampening to remove that echo? Thanks for the advice, Peter |
I would not describe the larger Audio Physic speakers as warm though they will reveal the character of the electronics driving them. Mid-field positioning is a near necessity for full appreciation of their virtues. That means out into the room, typically closer to the listening position than the back wall. In very rough terms if your couch or chair is against the wall, imagine your room divided in thirds, with two-thirds of the room behind the speakers. On well produced orchestral recordings all the action happens in the space between the the speakers and the back wall. Proper positioning coupled with a narrow baffle bring precise time/phase coherence that yields, among other things, delightfully dimensional imaging. Considering your room description I doubt they could work for you without some serious commitment of living room space. From your system pictures I would ask if your room requires your speakers to book-end your equipment table? And from your list I'd be inclined toward the Parsifals, but I don't know the boutique electronics so cannot gauge synergy. Or, how about a pair of Wilson Sophias? Have fun with your search! Tim |
Inspiring words Oregon and much appreciated. Although in some estimation, it is unfortunate to just listen to equipment, it must be great to be able to listen to and expereince such a range of different set-ups. See that where my expereince lacks. I live in Montana. Cold winters. Short growing season. Seems aperfect combo for listening to music. Long dark cold days. Yet most here are poor and spending what I am considering spending and have spent is ludicrious as well as impossible. Somehow I have saved, worked hard and had some luck so i am able. maybe it is priority. I drive a car that cost less than some cables I hace bought. Thats ok with me, because "its the sound man." Let me ask you Oregon, were you listening to the parsifal encores or ovations. I have heard there is a difference and in my budget only the encores are possible. However, thanks for the vote of confidence with the verty's. Speakers I have always been attracted to simply based on reviews. Which, with you good fellows input is all I have to go on. Thanks again. I ahve never spent so much time on such a confusing choice. Usually I am such a straight forward kinds of guy. But speaker choices. man who knew it would be more complicated than which type of cattle to invest in:-). Peter |
Peter, You asked: why would you choose the Veritys? Like Ray said, "it's the sound man, how does it SOUND!" I am not a technocrat and have limited experience compared to many audiofools. I own Avalon Eclipses, and Audio Physic Virgos (both way below your budget) powered by 70 watt mono tube amps.I am happy, especially with vinyl. I belong to a group of foos. We get together every other month and try to enjoy the music, usually turns into listening to equipment, unfortunately. In one system, probably due to room issues, I find the Cremonas lacking. I feel that properly set they are very capable- just haven't heard it myself. BTW, on Tuesday I heard SF Pianos. I'd like a pair. Made music out of Choral and Opera. I have never cared for it, now I am interested. In another system, we have Avalon Ascents powered by BAT VK 60 monos in a big room. The sound is fabulous. Definitley full range. In another system the Verity Parsifals powered by Joule amps and pre. The room is med/small. In this system I feel as though I can see, feel, touch the musicians. All the stuff about attack, decay... is there. The woofers are rear facing. This one is by far what Ray is talking about- "how do it sound, man!?!?!" (See the documentary The Language of Music). If I could, I'd take the "plunge" with "Marias" money and get the Veritys. Nothing technical, just the sound. In the system I'm familiar with, it feels as though I am at a live performance. In the next room is an even more impressive (expensive) system. But to my ears the Veritys with the Joules are 'mo better, 'mo fantabulous. Take a few hundred and fly out to some audio rooms (come on guys, invite him over) and listen to some systems. I'm sure some of these fools would let you listen for yourself. You'll still have the $ to make the purchase. That's my 3 cents. |
Got ya on that one Doug, and that is what I am wary with in terms of the verty's and the Merlin's. The audio physics, I'm not sure, never heard them described as warm but again, I have not heard them personally. I'm pretty sure the ATC's will not be described as warm.? Doug, please tell me how the Amazon belt vs. your mylar belt can be described as warm. I am curious as to how a piece of small thread can add warmth? Thanks |
Peter, Nick's components are essentially neutral, neither warm and fuzzy nor cool and analytical. Of course like any tube component you can easily make them a little (or a lot) warmer simply by switching tubes. It's easy to add warmth to a system. In addition to tubes, there are warm sounding interconnects, speaker cables, cartridges, turntable belts and tweaks of every description. It's not so easy to remove warmth (or any coloration) if it's inherent in a major component. I could make my system sound warmer in a hundred ways, many of them quick, inexpensive and easily reversible. (If I used an Amazon turntable belt instead of my mylar tape I'd add warmth, to name an example you can look at.) But to make an inherently warm component sound natural, neutral and transparent usually requires replacing it. I guees I'm just saying, be careful not to go too far. High end analog doesn't require added warmth to avoid digital nastiness. Go warm only if you're sure that's what you want. |
here's something that might help suggestions. There are two recordings that I want to make sound really good. One is Lucinda Williams West and the other Is Neil Youngs recient releases of live shows the Fillmore and massey hall. If I could make those really sing, then I'd be a happy man. Does that help? Peter |
I have a local Sonus Faber dealer. I am not sure if I've specifically heard the Cremonas, but I've heard several SF speakers and I've liked them all. They have a family signature that I like a lot. SF manages to give you a fine musical perspective and lots of perceived linearity and clarity, while never sounding clinical. They are always musical and engaging, regardless of musical type and they're tolerant of differing levels of source quality. Here's a Stereophile review of the Cremonas by John Atkinson. And if you're looking for aesthetic appeal, Sonus Faber leads the way. They invented that staved construction which is being copied so much. They use unusual combinations of materials and they're very finely finished. I'd do my house in Sonus Fabers in a heartbeat if I could afford to. A narrow or small baffle eliminates diffraction distortion (soundwaves bouncing off the front baffle) which results in a pinpoint sort of imaging where the speakers disappear and a 3-d image floats in space. The floor-standing Cremonas have a narrow front baffle; it's the stand-mount Extremas that have almost no front baffle. There's a pair in the closed auctions on eBay, priced at $7000 with stands (they were about $12K new + $1500 for factory stands) that had no bids here. |
While RMAF presents you with the ability to look at many different speaker products under one roof, the sound in many of the rooms leaves a bit to be desired. If I were auditioning speakers this would be the last place I would do it at. On the other hand, if the speaker designers are on hand it gives you a chance to interact with them first hand and the event is a lot of fun. |
John, I wonder since my line up will be completely tube based, if a warm speaker will be a little too much of a good thing. I've heard this said before, and jave never expereinced it, just bringing it up as a discussion point. Of course Doug has similar upstream components and as I know, is extermely sensitive to ant coloration so I am assuming the Doshi pre and Modded Lectron are neutral in sound.? Peter |
You guys are great, and I am enjoying this level of help. Sometimes it seems like this all a swirl in my head. Shadorne, I have never seen the ATC's in person or any of the speakers here that we are talking about, but aesthetics is important. I do find the ATC in rosewood quite attractive and although less adorned than the others mentioned, they seem fine enough. Interestingly, as Doug has pointed out, the Lectron is an extrodinarily powerful 50 wats as evidence that it drives Dougs 88db Vons to his satisfaction. Well after a talk with Nick who is currently modding the lectron to his reference level, i got to asking him what he uses. He is right now running the passive ATC 20's, 83 db with two ATC active subs in a room similiarly sized to mine. Nick's listening preferences vary like mine. I find it amazing that 50 watts could do it for such speakers but I trust Nick. And as it is well know, and shadhorne brings up, that ATC midrange is magic. Seems like with two subs backing it up it might be fantastic. Maybe a little out ok my price range, the combo new at 10k but I could forego a higher priced CDP for the combo. Any thoughts? Peter |
While I agree for the most part with Shardone about aesthetics, all of these speakers are easy on the eye. I do think it's necessary to point out that they do not all sound the same. The Verity, Sonus Faber and Merlin's are all from the same side of the track. The warm, rich, full side of neutral. The Audio Physics speakers are entirely different sound, from my experiences. The AP sound is definitely on the fast, transparent side of neutral. This can make a big difference depending on what you are looking for sonically, and your auxiliary components. Cheers, John |
Looking for speakers to consider. Why not consider coming to the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, Oct. 12th.13th.and 14th. Cheap flights to Denver,$250+- round trip, Frontier or Jet Blue and others. $35 round trip shuttle to hotel. cheap room rates. Over 300 brands, over 100 rooms. Meet all the terrific people in this hobby and lots of reviewers etc, etc. This one trip could save you a tremendous amount of pain and money (mistakes are expensive) |
Your short list has clearly selected some beautiful looking aesthetic speakers (Verity, Audio Physic, SF, Merlin etc.) These are all very good speakers and each has strengths and weaknesses. The one strength that they all share is that they all look really impressive (clearly expensive cabinetry). Most recently, in your thread you state Aesthestics are important to me as well. I want the speaker to disappear in the general decor. Now we are getting somewhere....frankly, the ATC's stick out like a sore thumb on this list. As a purely functional box designed for acoustics with little regard to aesthetics, ATC's look quite ordinary and are the least likely to garner admiration from guests or spouse, even if you were to go with an expensive veneer. In private, ATC's may give you jaw-dropping mid range but, from personal experience, they will not even elicit a comment from casual dinner guests and the wife will probably keep them pushed well back against the wall and hidden or out the way. My aesthetic preference is SF then Audio Physic. I like the pyramidal Verity's least and the Merlin's are a bit more conventional looking than the others ( score lower on the wow factor with guests, IMHO) Since these are all very good speakers (nobody should be unhappy with the sound of any of these speakers), I'd go with what you will be happiest with in terms of your decor! Perhaps others can suggest some very good sounding and aesthetic speakers such as Totem's (and not JBL's with 18" woofers)....my hunch is that these kind of speakers may be more appropriate for you and will not lead to regrets later on... |
Gregm, Actually, Peter can do all the things you listed with this amp. If he couldn't I wouldn't have recommended it - promise! :-) The Lectron does those things in my sytem with the relatively petite B&W floorstanders, as Dan said. (In fact, it's substantially stronger and more involving now than what Dan, Raul and other visitors heard, thanks to some recent system tweaks.) It does those things beautifully with the top of the line Merlins + BAM. It drives similar sized Audio Kharma floorstanders with a combination of power, finesse and clarity that stunned the importer of those speakers (way beyond Peter's budget, just an example to demonstrate how capable the amp is). Your suggestions are good ones, I know several people who swear by the powered ATC's. But since he's already got the amp doesn't it makes sense to find a pair of speakers it's known (or likely) to work with? He can always move on, but at least he'd have a reference point. Peter, Based on experiences from Nick, Dan, ourselves and other owners, speakers with the following characteristics should offer the performance you're seeking: * ~88db or higher efficiency * nominal 6 ohms impedance or above (dipping to ~3 is okay) * -3db point in the low 30's or above (not subwoofer bass) A speaker that pushed the limits in one of these areas but left some leeway on the other two might also work fine. There are probably hundreds of speakers that meet these guidelines. You just need to find the size, color and sonic flavor that most appeals. Doug |
gregm, I appreciate the information. The active ATC's are on my short list for sure. I've heard great things. However, the Lectron is my first tube amp and I am sticking to it for now. This is the world i have choosen for the meantime so the active speakers will have to wait for awhile. Of course, like you voiced, i do have concerns about getting the sound I want out of this amp, but I'll try for now and have fun doing it!! At the very least, i'll achieve some sound and be able to use it as a reference for where I want to go next, if anywhere. Johnny, thanks for the vote for the Sonus Fabers. have you expereince with the Cremona's. Very good looking. I was wondering about the small front baffle and what that sounded like. Monitor like huh? Good to know. I suppose that puts me in range of the audio physic line, which also has a small front baffel. I've entertained thoughts on the Avanti III's but wonder if they are just too much for my space? Can you give me more feedback on the Cremona sound? Thanks and cheers folks. I'll be away for a couple of days but always appreciate the time and info you guys put into this thread so keep it coming!! Peter |
Peter, reading your & others' posts and noting yr budget, I don't think you can get what you're looking for, the way you're looking for it: i.e., * one stereo amp, driving more or less full-range speakers (you listen to music that requires mid-bass, voice and hi-freq (cymbals, etc) -- including brass, etc). * low amplitude reproduction that is acceptable enough to envelop you in the music (or trick you to focus on the music, as it were). * reasonably sized spkrs, compatible with a family room. So, I believe you would be well advised to consider somewhat less conventional solutions -- such being, active speakers, for example. In this respect, many can fit the bill, the most obvious coming to mind being Linkwitz Orions or ATC. I think $: 7k can buy you a pair of Orions ready made (i.e. you can also purchase a kit) including the amplification required to drive them and the electronic xover. ASAIK, the Orions' reproduction will outperform the (very good) commercial choices listed at any volume level below 110dB spl; they are not that big; they have reasonable aesthetics (go to linkwitzlab dot com); they are very versatile -- i.e. easily set up in a room. Many would give (their) right arm (for) a pair of 4345 JBL Monitors.Maybe; I would agree these are interesting spkrs -- but they are huge and probably aren't practicable. Cheers |
I also have to second your interest in Sonus Fabers. I think they're fabulous speakers and would do great things with the wide variety of music and volumes you listen to. Their tonal balance is similar to Mirage. You may even want to look into some used Sonus Faber floor-standers. There is a pair of Cremona floorstanders in the classifieds for $6500. Or, although stand-mounted, you might want to keep an eye out for some Extremas. Those were S'phile Class A when they came out and I'm sure they still kick ass. One thing cool about the Extremas--they have all the dynamic and frequency range of a large speaker, but they present a small front baffle, which means they'd throw an image like mini-monitors. Best of both. |
I must say, that I am not looking for a huge speaker here. It must be a medium sized floorstander. I do not want them to overpower my living room which os closed and intimate. Therefore anything too tall or too deep is out, despite the beauty of sound. Aesthestics are important to me as well. I want the speaker to disappear in the general decor. Hopefully that helps folks understand what i look for. Peter |
Mark, thanks for the suggestions. As I listen to bass slam through my current system, a Bose ipod stand, I am reminded of the practical sense in all this. This Bose stand is ridiculously uninvovling. The rest of my system is in process of being built, so I have not even heard it through my current speakers. This, i know, seems ridiculous as well. How could I want to change speakers if I have not even heard my current momnitors on my current soon to be system. Yet you must understand, change is the only constant, and so I desire more presentation, invovlment, presence. So a floorstander it is. Therefore, I appreciate all and any considerations and truly enjoy researching them. So thanks. Right about now, at this hour, the single malt is writing, not I. So excuse spelling, language, or any sense at all. I am filled with options and must let the dust settle. This community is sooo knowledgable it is almost scary. Audphile, of course i must acknowledge your statements as well. I'll chwck out Dynaudio on your recommendation. Cheers to all. |
If you have Focals now and like them, you may want to give Wilson Sophia 2 a listen. Also, Dynaudio may be a candidate, both in floor standing speakers and monitors. SF Cremonas have a very laid back type of presentation, plus they like power....I don't know how much drive your amps will have for the Cremonas. |
Hello Peter. Nick Sushi, Nick Doshi, whoever, I never heard of this equipment, and I'm sure it's head, and shoulders over mine. Since your "first system" was comprised of Jeff Rowland, I take it, you didn't take a step down! I'm surprised no CDP, or such? You seem to be an Analog Junkie, and therefore, you do have my highest respect. Your analog front end probably makes mine look like a $44 Garrard. If money was no object, I'd probably be looking top of the line Dynaudio, or a pair of Wilson Audio MAXX. There was a sweet pair this week in Mercedes Silver. All 1100 lbs for the pair! (An erroneous list by owner said 10,000lbs lol) I don't know why it is, when many "audiophiles shun JBL as a audiophile speaker. Many would give thier right arm of a pair of 4345 JBL Monitors. Only 500 pair of these animals were made, and if you want bass slam, and authority, these speakers will hit you in the chest like Andre The Giant. They should, with 18" Drivers. One thing I hate with Cars, Audio Equipment, or anything I buy, is walking out, and seeing them lose 50% of thier value when you walk out the door. That's why I like Krell, Levinson for sound, but hat them for thier inherit resale value. Downside with JBL? Is WAF. (Know what that means?) Means you'll get static from your signigicant other if you have one. One thing about the vintage JBL (Whereever you live) They won't lose thier value. There are those who do recognize that all hype aside, JBL made some of the best Speakers that ever were made, bar none. And they still do, such as the Everest, and the H29800. Mark |
Thanks for the vote of confidence there Dan. Really, since I do not have a dedicated room, I mostly listen at fairly causual or normal levels, like you could easily have a conversation etc. And honestly this is the level i prefer to listen at. Sometimes, maybe when no one is home or on a saturday night, i will turn it up, real loud, but like I said, that the exception not the rule. Unfortunately i cannot try any of these speaker first hand. I have one smaller dealer in town who is open only by appointment and he does not cary any lines I am interested in. Anyway, I am looking used and I generally feel strange going to the dealer, trying out his gear and then coming here to buy it used. Seems like taking avantage of of something. So I have to go on others opinions, thus yours Dan, being familiar with the Lectron is valued. Thanks |
After looking at the graphs supplied by Shadorne, I am a littel worried about the lectron's ability to drive those speakers. Although, and I might be off, I think they are rated 89dB, they do have a 4 ohm woofer and from the graph it does appear that they do dip down into that region. Dan ed, think the lectron can handle it? I am wondering. maybe i should be looking at the audio physics or the merlins? I think i'll call verity and see what they say. |
That sounds about right, Pete. The 10t's are about 86. The point is that there is no way to tell from this number alone what happens to the load with respect to frequency. I think the 803's are good to about 30Hz or so, not sure. Anyway, I've heard Doug's a few times and never had the impression that his Lectron was struggling in the least. In fact, it has great bass control with those speakers. |
Shadorne, that is interesting, but what does that tell me. I do note the behavior change but how does that relate to amp choice? Any light on that subject would be great. Dan ed thanks for clarfying, I think Dougs BW's are 88dB. Could be wrong here though. From what folks have said, I was under the assumption that the verity line was most commonly driven with lower powered tube amps and the results were fine. Does that graph indicate something different? Thanks, Peter |
That should probably say "low impedance". What happens on some speakers is that the impedance the amp sees falls way off when trying to reproduce LF signals. So the amp is forced to try and keep up by supplying more current. If it goes too far the amp clips and that's not good. My Aerial 10t's are a great example of this. I believe these can fall to 2 ohms or lower and will play down below 20 Hz. You can drive them with 50 watts, but don't turn the volume up much at all. Now, hook up 200-300 watts or more from a high-current delivering amp and they sing beautifully. It's not easy to tell from efficiency numbers, either. I'm not sure what the numbers are on Doug's B&Ws but I'm guessing they don't drop impedance too much even though they are relatively inefficient. |
Hi Peter The Cabasse are not horns but dynamic cones, made of their proprietory ? wafer composite. Very light and rigid (93db/w). The "eyes" take a bit of getting used to, but they just disappear when the music comes on. Not everyone's cup of tea. Dali MS series is more conventional, but cleverly designed with the rear of the speaker box converging. It uses 2 tweeters, "proprietary ribbon/soft dome hybrid tweeter module" which has one of the sweetest most extended highs. The finish on them are beautiful, definitely high on the WAF. Unfortuately I've not used them(Dali), but when deciding to buy my last speaker, my choices were down to the Cabasse or Dali. I would have been happy with either. They are a new breed of very accurate, highly efficient and musical designs which are relatively amplifier friendly, which makes it easier to fill a room with music. Albert Porter is using the Dali Megalines, their top of the line towers. He could shed some more light on their sonics. |
Dan ed can you clarify for me what "heavy impedence loads means. This is relaitvely new terminolody for me and clarification would be much appreciated. Cmk, thanks for the recommendations. I enjoy learning more about speakers that are out there, your a and b both being ones I have never thought of. Those Cabasse are crazy looking. Are those classfied as horns? Fantastic and no problem with me recommending speakers you use actively, Thats what I am looking for, knowledgable folks and you obviously know what your talking about if you have experienced it. Can you give me a better description of the Dali's. Have you used them? Thanks, peter |
Pete, the real time with DIY speakers is in the aesthetics. It just depends on how far one wants to go. There are many open baffle speaker plans that could be built in a few days that sound wonderful. They may look like something you picked up out the back door of your local Home Depot, but they do rival many high dollar speakers. Still, the DIY route is not for everyone. It sounds to me like your tastes in music are similar to my own. Those whose listening habits run the gamut like ours do place a huge burden on speakers. I can appreciate the demands of classical music but to ask a speaker to sound great on full symphony, bluegrass, jazz, and fully electrified rock is really not fair. But, life is not fair. :) The Lectron really does have boat-loads of punch for a 50 watts/ch PP amp. I agree that it will handle low efficiency loads but I would warn that one needs to watch for heavy impedance loads. I found that out. |
When you look for a long term speaker replacement, its always necessary to consider a few key elements : a) Does the tweeter irritate? Don't mistake artificially "enhanced" detail as the real thing. We often make the mistake of thinking that a speaker is more detailed, but in reality, the upper freqs are boosted in relation to the rest of the spectrum. In the long run, this will lead to listener fatigue. b) Does the lower-mid bass mask detail? This is one of the most common faults of most speakers, because it is also due to box resonances. c) Does the speaker communicate the music? This is probably the hardest to achieve. It really depends on your listening tastes. I would suggest that your other half also gets involved, since she has the trained ear. With your room size, you could easily accomodate a floor stander. Speakers which I think you could consider are : a) Cabasse Baltic/Thor - yeah I know I'm using them, and I like them. They do go loud and don't break up. They don't have box colorations and the tweeter is very clean and musical. With the sub, you can tune it to your room/music. With the concentric drivers, they are time-alined and consequently throw huge soundstages without getting confused on loud passages. b) Dali Euphonia MS4/5 - this is a great speaker with crystaline highs. The speakers just disappear and they throw fantastic soundstages. c) Vandersteen Quattro - a sleeper. If you want to know what's really on the recording, this is one of those speakers. Very reveiling. They thrive on power. Heard them with a 360w amp, followed by a 600w mono and the monos just took the cake. d) Dynaudio C2/4 - very neutral mids. Require high power to get the best from them. Of the above, (a) and (b) are easy loads and highly efficient, while (c) and (d) require more amp mussle. The JM Lab speakers are also good, but I would recommend you go for the floorstander instead of the monitor. I'm not a fan of Sonus as I find them too colored. |
Peter, If you want to really 'rock the house', no, the Verity's are not for you. They play plenty loud enough for me, in my 24X15X9 room, but they are not rough and edgy. There magic is in the purity of the midrange. I mostly listen to jazz/blues/folk, for which they are fabulous. If you really want room shaking dynamics, I would suggest maybe the Focal's or ATC's from your list. Even better, try a pair of Von Schweikert VR-4SR's or Legacy Focus HD. They will 'rock your foundation'. Cheers, John |
