All the cable naysayers and deniers please step aside. We have heard your opinions more than enough already. Thank you.
Tell me if this train of thought is off base or not. I am observing that power cords made with a high strand count of fine gauge high purity wire can be very resolving, very refined sounding and very smooth sounding but, they do not provide good bass. Usually true? Yes or No?
Here's a couple of examples of power cord wire that I find fit the above description. Furutech FP-TCS21 and FP-SO22N, Acrolink 6NP4030 and 7NP4030 II. These are cables that are or were available in bulk for DIY application. I have pretty much done all the DIY cables that can be made using the ready made bulk wire that is on the market.
Across three systems, I do have a lot of Transparent Audio power cords from the mm2 generation and the Gen 5 generation. All of them are re-terminated by me with Oyaide 004 cord ends.
I'm now looking for opinions about which other manufactured power cords are thought to have good bass. In particular I want to try something to go between the wall receptacles and power conditioners. At present I have two of the Acrolink 7NP40430 II cords in that position. High resolution but bass could be better.
Unfortunately, due to my hearing condition that is called hyperacusis, I'm extremely sensitive to brightness, harshness, shrillness, etc. etc., which means it is no dice on silver wire and most plated cord ends. Other than the Oyaide 004 ends, all of my cord ends and receptacles are un-plated copper.
use a good power cord and your amp will produce all the bass it can.
once you have a good power cord fully enabling your amp, then changing power cores will do nothing but contribute to the economy.
I am a huge believer in the need for a quality power cord. I can see how a power cord can get a reputation as "creating" good bass. A bad power cord will limit bass. Replace a bad cord with any good cord and the impression is that "this cord really improved my bass".
In my experience - where I upgraded speaker cables, interconnects and then power cords - the lower end frequencies became clearer. The details were more evident and my interpretation is the noise was eliminated (I have shunyata power cords).
If you have the budget, I’d recommend a Synergistic Research Galileo power cord - beginning with the UEF series. The UEF SX series and later is even better. It offers body, texture and bass - assuming that your system can deliver it. The tuning bullets might be more friendly for your hyperacusis. The grounding plug creates more transparency. (Curiously, if the SQ is harsh with the grounding plug engaged, then it just revealed other flaws in your system. Most likely, dirty power.) The lower tier SR series are good - but not at the same level as the Galileo.
The Oyaide 004 can accept a large gauge wire. I've doubled up on cables before, inserting 2 power cables into a single pair of 004 plugs, twisting the cables around each other. This has created a warmer, fuller sound using some vintage silver plated solid core copper wire I acquired years ago. Can you double up on the Acrolink cords? It might be worth a try.
I tend to agree with @raysmtb1 about wire size on this one, although the speakers and the amplifiers driving them will have a larger impact than the PC, IMO. You might try Triode Wire Labs Seven Plus, which is a 7awg power cord. However if you really want good bass, the addition of two or more well-positioned and integrated subs will do much more to get you there.
BTW, the TWL American Series cables are constructed using something similar to Western Electric stranded tinned copper wire, which many describe as having a rich midrange and full-sounding bass and so might help with your sensitivity to "brightness, harshness, shrillness", particularly in the higher frequencies. Also, equipment with a well-designed and constructed power supply is IME less susceptible to those undesirable attributes.
Totally agree with those saying Audioquest Hurricane. I found that the bass on this cord seems just slightly accentuated beyond neutral with a touch of bloom/glow, which definitely can be a good thing if that is what you are after. Bigger bass but not sluggish at all. Also compared Audioquest Dragon (which has better defined bass than Hurricane), Shunyata Omega QR (less bass than Audioquest), Nordost Valhalla 2 (less bass than Audioquest).
Also found Transparent Reference XL also had good bass.
All of these comparisons were done powering my Gryphon Diablo 300, so results could be specific to my gear. I had a dealer tell me that the only customer who told him that the Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord was light on bass also had a Gryphon.
Also tested some other Nordost power cords and I owned a Clarus Crimson power cord which I found to be a bit flat (but I can’t say enough good things about their speaker cables - the only gear I regret selling).
Triodes Wire Labs, absolutely : Lots of bass and midrange bass. You may feel like you lose detail slightly in the top end for the first few hours. After a few days, the cymbals and the vocals breath come back and may even become even more defined.
Audioquest Tornado or Hurricane, yes. Not as much as the Triodes, but more punch, faster. Same thing for the XLO Signature 3.
Wireword: Very nice bass especially the midrange, although not so fast
The Shunyata (HC, NR or King Cabra) don’t boost bass despite their huge gauge, but make it very defined and more musical. My Nordost Valhalla v1 and v2 give a lot more attack than the rest, but definitely need to be combined with large braided copper power cords to fill out some bass range gaps.
Thank you all for the excellent input. Yes, I should have said good - quality - bass in the header. Lots of votes for Audioquest so far.
@vinci92 I did have an early version Shunyata King Cobra way back when. That was an amazing power cord. Unfortunately, one or both of the cord ends was/were silver plated and I eventually moved it on.
@nyev I have a Transparent Powerlink MM2 (next tier up from the Reference in the mm2 generation) on my upgraded McCormack DNA-500 amp. Gen 5 Reference can't unseat the Powerlink MM2 on my amp. Might be a synergy thing in that case.
I use the current generation of Transparent power cords on all my components with the exception of my amps… they use AudioQuest Hurricanes. They are really clean, Transparent, with excellent bass. Highly recommended.
What amp (s) are you using? What kinds of music do you listen to? How good are your ears? And last, but not least, how loud do you listen? If you have power hungry amps and you listen loud, get something that’s five nines copper and at least ten gauge.
Also, have you considered your source power cords? I switched the stock cords that came with my streamer power supply and CD transport with $300 Audience F3 cords and I heard a difference in both devices.
Why do you want to change from transparent power cords? Maybe upgrade to a current version which may not be all that meaningful.
I have transparent cables throughout my system and their great. I just installed some of their power cords on my amplifiers and saw base improvement. Also have their power isolator. The benefits of their network boxes on the speaker cables are quite good. The outlets may be an opportunity but not sure how meaningful that type of surgery is.
interesting that you modified the transparent power cords would like to know more about this.
Generally I find the actual recording itself has more to do with producing bass assuming your system already has ability to resolve. It's hard sucking water from a rock.
@jumiaDue to my inadequate explanation, you have misunderstood which cables I'm wanting to improve. The cables that are the issue are the ones made with the Acrolink 7NP4030 II wire. I am a big fan of Transparent Audio cables largely because of the way that they tamp down the high frequency problems that are very exaggerated to my ear, again due to my hyperacusis. All of my IC's and speaker cable are Transparent. I don't use all Transparent power cords because I find that some components just sound better to me with other cords. I have three mm2 PI -8 power isolators and one mm2 Reference power isolator in the main system.
Re: wall receptacles, of course everything matters, I have both some Maestro and some Oyaide R-0 (un-plated copper) receptacles (on dedicated power lines). I grant you that the Maestro recepts. are not all copper but they work well for some parts of the system.
Re: re-terminating the Transparent power cords. I simply dislike the sound of brass cord ends. Let's face it, Transparent uses el cheapo basic brass cord ends. The gold plated ends on the newer generations are not to my liking either and I figure that they are on the inexpensive side also. For the most part, I prefer un-plated receptacles and cord ends except that I do prefer the Oyaide 004 ends on the Transparent cords. The 004 ends are made with beryllium copper instead of the phosphor bronze that their other ends are made from. Most of the Furutech ends are phosphor bronze also. I hear a difference and prefer all copper ends.
My concerns about bass are about quality not quantity.
. . . I do prefer the Oyaide 004 ends on the Transparent cords
I have several TA Powerline MM power cords. I’m considering replacing their connectors. Have you compared the Oyaide 004 to the IeGo 8055? If so, what were your observations? Also, have you tried the ATL ETP-850CU?
Did you replace the ends yourself? Is it a big deal to do this?
Ashame transparent doesn’t use the best quality connectors which kind of surprises me. Not sure the outlets within the transparent power isolator I have are of really good quality either but I think the unit itself reduces noise. The isolator weighs a ton as if it were filled with lead.
@jumiaYes, I did do the re-terminating myself. Before I continue, in all fairness, the term "el cheapo" I used to describe the cord ends that Transparent uses was a poor choice of words. Their cord ends are not poor quality products. It's that on my scale basic brass is the baseline and just as with many other kinds of products it is possible to get higher performance or a different final result at additional cost.
Re: how big of a deal is it to change the cord ends? Well, depending on your manual dexterity, level of patience and how left brained you are it can be done. Don't forget you are ultimately dealing with electricity. Your comfort level about making changes to an electrical device and any ramifications that could arise from any mishap that might impact your home owners insurance should be taken into account.
Re: the Power Isolators, I can remark about the mm and mm2 generations. Based on my observations I think that they used very good receptacles in those units. They are labeled as Hubbell brand which is a major player in their arena. I suspect that Transparent has the buying power to contract with Hubbell to have the receptacles made to Transparent's specs. or at least they can choose what options they want. The receptacles seem to be made with high copper content internal conductors. I have full confidence in the Power Isolators. Yes, they are heavy. A peek inside reveals that all of the electronics inside are potted, which is where some of the weight comes from.
Adjusting tone with power cords is ridiculous as the power supplies in the gear obviate any such thing, and if people think otherwise I simply do not care. Why don't gear manufacturers include "special" boutique (expensive) cords and fuses with their gear? They know it's silly, and if these expensive items really made the gigantic tonal impact claimed, they'd be universally accepted by the audio geek community and, frankly, they're not. I have some fancy cords bought because they look cool, as well as cords provided with things like my Pass XA-27 and Bryston BIT-15 conditioner...both came with large nice normal cords and the advice to use them.
Why don’t gear manufacturers include "special" boutique (expensive) cords and fuses with their gear? They know it’s silly, and if these expensive items really made the gigantic tonal impact claimed, they’d be universally accepted by the audio geek community
I have implemented my WT cable technology into my modded SACD players and my modded amps successfully. As I mentioned many times in my posts, other audio and cable companies don’t know how to make the perfect PC properly. Alex/Wavetouch
Regarding the effect of the cable on the sound. I had an Oyaide Tunami V2 cable on my TEAC NT505. I replaced it with the Furutech FP-3TS20 in the sound, the quantity and quality of low frequencies and bass increased significantly. Low frequencies have become more weighty and voluminous.
Use WyWires Platinum HC’s and Nordost Valhalla 2. The Nordost is the better but for the money the WyWires are excellent. Agree with Speedthrills, if the amp doesn’t have it, no power cord is going to make something that’s not there. Better cords just get out of the way, lower noise floor which in turn lets the music flow.
I don't know who steered you into the direction that power cords affect bass, but shame on them. Time for you to put down the bottle of placebos, and join the rest of us back here in reality. Best of luck to you.
@squared80 exclusively for you. I, like you, at one time did not hear the difference between power cables and also wrote, like you, that this is nonsense. But then I heard, and how I heard. Advice to you, do not hear the difference and do not, just do not write everywhere that it does not exist.
About the good bass from the cable. There is a wonderful cable that is no longer manufactured, but is on sale, this is the "Eichmann Express Power Series 2". What wonderful low frequencies he extracts from the power amplifier is simply fantastic. I had this cable with Quad 909, now it costs with Quad artera stereo. I sincerely advise you to try it, it is not expensive, you can find it on "eBay".
Milhorn for the price of your pc they should have a good bass.
Yes. My WTPC (and even low price WTPCevo) power cords have the right/accurate bass to match with the original music.
Generally, higher freq audio music makes listener’s feeling exciting and happy. And lower freq music makes listener’s feeling gloomy and sad/down. People who want more bass even with large woofers on speakers are often dealing with the audio noise. Interesting and pretty audio noise. Not the music. Their audio sound is not quiet the level of music. Simply, their audio sound is not touching the listener’s feeling or emotion. If it was the music with that low freq, they will be frightened or sad when they listen to it. Alex/Wavetouch
I have definitely found that replacing stock power cables with high end ones improved the sound in my system, especially in the bass, first Audience and then Shunyata. The problem is one of expectation. Hearing an audible difference is a far cry from being “blown away” by cable differences. It’s more a question of how much you are willing to pay for subtle yet audible improvements. I have no real explanation for why a short power cable improves the bass . . . Just that in my system, it did.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.