Sound Quality of red book CDs vs.streaming
I can't hear a meaningful difference between CD/SACD discs on my Esoteric K-01X and files or Tidal into the USB interface of the K-01X. However, the Ethernet-to-USB conversion needs to be of high quality. In this instance, Roon DSP engine on QNAP i5 NAS into SOtM endpoints, with all components synchronized to a 10mHz master clock and powered by a Hynes SR7 LPS. I'm sure YMMV depending on execution. |
So, lemme see if I got this right.... you are streaming a service from some device (iPhone, iPad, laptop??) to the Chromecast via Bluetooth (strike 1), then the Chromecast is connected to your Gumby via USB (strike 2). Now onto Redbook CDs - you are playing them thru some CD transport, outputting SPDIF (hopefully coax) to the Gumby. If I got the above right, there is no doubt in my mind that Redbook would be superior to your streaming services (any of them). I finally got amazing "streaming" music quality once I took USB out of the direct loop using a DDC (in my case a Matrix SPDIF2, converting USB from my MacBook Pro laptop to AES/EBU for my DAC; even SPDIF coax sounded superior, but I like AES/EBU a little better). I don't think any streaming service will outperform Redbook in your setup, assuming I understand your setup correctly. |
Absolutely. MP3 or ALAC streamed files will always lose a little depth and width over the .wav file (CD quality), but if you minimize the jitter from the Chromecast, the streamed files may be even better than the CD transport. If you use a Synchro-Mesh to reclock with one of my excellent BNC-BNC cables, it will probably beat the transport. I stream occasionally using Amazon Prime music and it sounds wonderful. Not as good as my Ethernet renderer, but really nice. I don't use any transport by itself because the jitter is too high. I only use my Oppo for movies now and reclock it with an iFi SPDIF iPurifier, which reduces jitter for Dolby Digital tracks. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
@georgehifi "Why is the Linn CD12 sounding better than their downloads?"I didn't mean Linn's downloads, I meant the downloads the owner of the HD servers with downloaded music on them they bought to compare to my Linn CD12. Cheers George |
A lot of us are old enough to remember the good old days of radio, and the best part about it was that it was free. Now, we’re being convinced that being our own personal DJ is the way to go and to stream our music, but there’s a catch. All you have to do buy even more stuff that’s not ready for prime time as it’s continually being developed and refined. Then, you need to pay some HOA fees (the streaming service itself and your internet provider). I’ll stay with my CDs. 😄 All the best, Nonoise |
Radio was not - is not free just spend 10 mins listening to it and you hear the not free part every other song they are called advertisements. I'd pay $10 a month for free from adverts with out question. in the age of $5 coffee $10 a month for all the music you can stream is a very good deal IMO. once your streaming equipment is the same quality as your CD player I think you'll hear they are the same or better if higher rez files. |
This is simple. The Synchro-Mesh reclocker connects in-line with the digital coax cable. Cable in and cable out, so you need a second cable. All coax cables should be 1.25-1.5m in length, not shorter. You can connect your sources to the Synchro-Mesh input using Toslink or coax and the output to your DAC using either Toslink or coax. You can actually connect two sources, both the CD Transport and the Chromecast to the input of the Synchro-Mesh and switch between them, one Toslink and one coax. They can both have lower jitter going to your DAC. The Synchro-Mesh in addition to lowering jitter also provides galvanic isolation, so the ground of the sources are not connected to the DAC. This eliminates ground-loops and the noise that these produce. The Synchro-Mesh also upsamples the data from 16/44.1kHz to 24/96kHz, which is beneficial because your DAC will select a better sounding digital filter that has minimal artifacts in the audio range. The risk of trying this is low because the SM and BNC cables have 30-day money-back guarantee, less shipping. BTW, I highly recommend this Toslink cable: https://btpa.com/TOSLINK-XXX.html Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I have found ripping with DB Poweramp on wav or # 8 uncompressed flac files after cleaning with art De son,, the discs sound more alive then streaming and I put a Beldons best Ethernet cable then from model a AQCinnamon and atcomputer end . It sounds good but still better direct through computersSolid state drive via USB .the New Nordost Heimdall -2 usb I like betterThen my AQ Diamond, and Wireworld 7 flagship platinum my brother owns. Thats in my system. |
I have the same experience even though my mind doesn't want to accept it - if I rip a CD to AIFF (1411 kbps), transfer it to my iPod Classic, and play it through a Cambridge iD100 dock to my Rega DAC-R it doesn't sound as enjoyable as the same CD played from my old Rotel RCD-02 transport to the Rega DAC-R (both using Chord Clearline Digital Coax inter-connects). They should sound identical but consistently they don't and I can flip back and forth at the press of a button to compare them (rest of the pipeline is Rega Elex-R and Spendor A4). I have been wondering about replacing the iPod/Cambridge with one of the Astell & Kern's that offer digital out. (Anyone have any thoughts?) |
I often compare a vinyl track against MQA, ripped CD, and Tidal High Res. To 70 year old ears, vinyl sounds the most natural and the best. I rate DSD straight through to my MyTek Liberty DAC second, and in some cases first. Tidal MQA through a NAD M12 BluOS module third, with Tidal High Res, CDs ripped to FLAC to my Zenith MKII, and MQA converted to PCM on my MyTek DAC last and a toss up. When it comes to digital music files, I’ve found sound quality and volume levels vary widely regardless of file type or source. But to answer the OP’s question, I’ll take Tidal streaming over Redbook CDs any day. I use a WireWorld Cat-8 Ethernet cable to the Zenith, WireWorld USB from the Zenith to the MyTek DAC, and AudioQuest RCA cables to the M12. Ortofon Phono cable to M12 Phone jack. And a mix of VooDoo and WireWorld power cables. |
I have all my CD's ripped to a laptop in FLAC and played with the latest JRiver feeding a Benchmark DAC2 HGC. When I listen to Radio Paradise through the same laptop and DAC with their new FLAC format I'm in awe of how good it sounds. Goosebumps. I don't sense any sonic improvement on the local ripped CDs, and when I had a Wadia transport, I thought the ripped CD's sounded better than the Wadia source. |
In my rig CDs ripped to Antipodes DX3 server (WAV) (Roon) sounded superior to CDs played on an Oppo 105D transport to the very same DAC. So much so, I sold the Oppo 105D. I listen to the CDs at 24/96. BTW I believe @audioengr Steve N. has noted elsewhere that WAV files sound better than FLAC files. I tested this assertion in my old system and couldn't hear a difference between them. Then I upgraded my components significantly and I now can hear a significant positive difference between WAV and FLAC files. I tested about 25 CDs comparing WAV/FLAC versions. Turns out @audioengr Steve N. was spot on. Equipment can make a difference. |
Someone mentioned a re-clocker. Here is another one you could try to improve the sound. https://www.amazon.com/Wyred-Sound-Recovery-USB-Reclocker/dp/B01CUTMKYM/ |
Did you try to burn a cd from the stream? And compare original CD and burned CD from streaming source.? Does this sound more the same? My digital stream is pretty good (red book) tidal. My CD playback is very good for me. Sony 7ESD. Two different digital chains so I do not aspect them to sound the same. The both can sound very good. I use my CD player as reference of the sound I like and tuned my digital stream to come close. Stream from internet , (tidal -Roon) Stream from local source, (Roon) Play a CD All different - non bad |
@ astewart8944334 BTW I believe @audioengr Steve N. has noted elsewhere that WAV files sound better than FLAC files.I'll have to re-rip a couple of my CDs to WAV and give it listen. I hope I can't hear a difference because I dread the thought of re-ripping my entire CD library :-). +1 @richer31 All different - non bad When comparing vinyl against different streaming sources and different playing sources with the volume set at -25 db, I've found that Tidal Masters play much louder some more than others. The same goes for Tidal High Res, MQA converted to PCM, FLAC, and ripped CDs. I have to decrease volume to about -35 db or more, and I already have the DAC input gain set -9 db lower. DSD generally plays lower, so I have to increase the volume to around -10 db. As I increase volume, the sound is smooth and gets richer as I go higher; and I hear everything! I've also found the change in sound to be more controlled with DSD. I'm guessing that's a function of my pre-amp, since changes are in .5 db increments, and the SQ of the DSD file. Regardless, all of it sounds good to me. |
I can't say if WAV sounds better than FLAC but I did rip all my CD's to WAV since HHD storage is so cheap and I can't tell the difference between streaming the WAV from playing the CD on my CDP both going through the same DAC. TO be honest streaming Tidal in CD or MQA sounds as good as the CDP if not better. Non of this has been tested by a blind comparison doubt I could tell any difference. Perhaps my gear isn't as good as most here nor my ears. |
Expensive CD player vs. the cheapest streaming setup you can implement and you are wondering why your cd sounds better? Your current setup couldn’t support the best hires/DSD/MQA streaming services that are available. Also, when was the best sounding sacd inferior to cd redbook? Sure there were some sacd recordings that were just cd’s reripped but most were superior. IMO, trying to get your chromecast audio/toslink up to a high standard for streaming is like putting lipstick on a pig. Get rid of USB, reclockers for your usb, and toslink, go with straight Ethernet with a fiber internet connection, get tidal hifi with MQA and you will be selling your CD player. Rip all of your cd’s to a server and use Roon for your GUI interface and you will be wondering why you waited so long to do this. |
After investigating, I can see that Ethernet/Roon may well be the wave of the near future for audiophiles. But, in general, I’m wondering. If CDs become obsolete, what will happen to the structure and incentive for performers to record. Where is the profit motive for them if streaming, at $10-$20 per month for consumers, is their only source of revenue? This is the cart leading the horse. Without recordings being created, where will the music come from? If current trends continue, Streaming Subscription prices are inevitably going to rise precipitously to much, much higher rates in order to support the creators. |
“Another reclocker is the iFi SPDIF iPurifier which I own. “ Ditto. It actually makes the Chromecast Audio sound pretty darn close to Node2 using the same (non-MQA) outboard DAC and using the optical TOSLINK connectivity. The improvement using it with the Node2 is not as significant but still worth it. By the way, I’m using the optical cable Steve had recommended from btpa.com. Very reasonably priced and well made. |
See my white-paper: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm Steve N. Empirical Audio |
It isn't for me. I compared Roon to DLNA/UPnP on the same hardware platform and DLNA sounded better. It was the Roon software compared to Linn Kinsky/Minimserver. This is why I don't offer a Roon-Ready product. I offer a better sounding DLNA product. When they can make a better sounding playback software, I will consider Roon. You can still stream pretty much anything using DLNA. |
I have an ancillary question. Currently, I'm listening to my somewhat extensive of Redbook classical and organ CDs via a top quality CD spinner - - and I've been very satisfied with the result. However; I might have to add a streaming capability to satisfy other family members. Can the streaming entities provide the specific performance of what I want to hear? Example: There are over 40 differing performances of the Verdi Requiem. Can I ask for a specific performance, or am I stuck with what they might have on hand in the way of the Requiem? I wouldn't want to ask for the Reiner or Barenboim, and be given one of Giulini's instead. Seriously, just asking about classical and organ music choices with streaming. TIA |
