Soundstage Heresy IV and Forte IV

Heresy’s hold their ground very well against the Forte’s.

https://youtu.be/BvGcthhxUHI?si=JS86AhsMSBH6C0Qz

I've owned both

Forte's threw a bigger stage but the Heresy was no slouch

I sold them both as there are many better performance options at their respective pricepoints however they are special and tube friendly is always a bonus

I believe Cornwalls and Lascalas are the sweetspots in the Heritage line

@Rolox 

I do have them on stands  do to the outrageous generosity of Doyle. And I do have a lightly activated sub. The H4's are 4 feet off the wall and 7 ft apart.

To answer the OP's question, well obviously Heresy sits on the floor and is not very tall, so soundstage might be better with Forte. 

You can always put them on stands, which depending on the room might call for subwoofers. (but if you put them on stands why not go straight for the Forte?)

@panzrwagn I believe you haven't heard the last generation of Klipsch Heritage. 

While it is true that previous models were not the last word (to stay polite) in audiophile attributes such as smooth response - realistic soundstage etc, the last generation (courtesy of Mr Delgado, chief engineer at Klipsch) is a HUGE upgrade and brings the Heritage line firmly in audiophile territory.

I've had a long listening session of a pair of Cornwall IV and they are stupidly good for the price, I would say they are THE audio bargain of the 21st century.

I loved my H3...  the Forte is just  more of good thing.   Just as the Cornwall is more of a good thing.... and on up the line.    

Sometimes I will feel like an image is wrapping around from front to rear or sometimes things go well beyond the speaker.   

They are great with tubes but also with good solid state electronics.   I recently drove the Forte IV with my new Cyrus 40 watt integrated.   It sounded awesome.  I kept that amp in my main room for over two weeks.  It has great detail and an excellent sense of pace and rhythm.    It had no problem driving those speakers to generous levels.   It didn't have quite the tone that I appreciate with a good tube amp but man it sounded good.    Like Heresy, Forte really sing with a great amp.  

I use mine mainly with a 7 watt 300b amp and they sound so good together.  

@wolf_garcia 

I'd say it took 6 weeks running virtually 24/7.

T

@tonydennison  absolutely my friend! 

@tonydennison 

How long did the break-in take? I simply couldn't stand that sound over 2 months, but the good news is that the IIIs with the subs and amps I use are so damn good that the only reason I'd replace them is simple curiosity...Heresy speakers are seriously underrated in my book, and sort of a bargain really.

@wolf_garcia 

I know what you mean and it does get better. That ovephisized upper mid cleared up for me just recently. Some audio things go through several changes during a long breakin period...in my experience.

T

I initially was really impressed with the improvements done to the Heresy IVs...lower frequency range (58hz to 48hz), cool ports, better internal wire (AQ), better bolt and nut speaker attachment instead of wood screws, better speaker binding posts, etc. Their  fit and finish is superb. The new base looks cool also, although you can't dust under it (might not need to). I had them for a couple of months of break-in so I doubt that was the issue. I listen to a lot of piano music, and certain mid-high frequencies would jump out weirdly and harsh my mellow. The IVs simply didn't deliver the coherency from top to bottom I was used to with the IIIs. I tried swapping out the preamp, different amps, anything I could think of and when I put the IIIs back in it was a revelation...the IIIs just work for me. Maybe over time the IVs would have gotten better, or maybe it was just that pair, but I sold 'em at a very small loss and I assume the next guy liked 'em. Who knows?  I simply assumed the new polyamide "non throated" mid was the culprit as that's a complete redesign from the IIIs. I'll call Roy Delgado...now where did I put his number...damn...

H4's are fantastic. Amazing how many haters there are. I imagine these people dont know how to set up or never heard them or atleast not broken in and set up.

@doyle3433 

But where would I get stands? 😏

Yes. Sounds GREAT on stands.

Thanks again?

I was listening to my Heresy IV's last evening and the soundstage was very wide....beyond the speakers themselves.  That's what gives them that " U R There " presentation.

Tony, when I had mine on stands the soundstage seemed to open up even more. I felt that once they were on the stands all my small list of issues with them seemed to go away. The H4's on stands with a sub and 40w from my Mac240 was sublime. 

@wolf_garcia 

Concerning your wonky mids.....are you should theybwere broken-in? My were wonky until break-in.

Yeah, Im loving the horn thing.  BAMM!

I bought a pair of new "open box" (Non sequential serial numbers, but close) Heresy III "Capitol Records Anniversary" speakers maybe 5 years ago or so...1500 bucks for the pair. They use titanium diaphragms in the mid and hi horns which I mention only because the IVs use a different design "poly" mid with seemingly no horn throat for compression...it’s simply stuck on the "tracktrix" horn flare. This wouldn’t matter except when I bought a new pair of IVs the mids just sounded bad compared to my IIIs. Real bad...smile reduction...sold the IVs and kept the IIIs. Maybe it was that particular pair of IVs but life is too short to tolerate unbalanced peaky mids. Ya know? As far as soundstage goes, sitting with my earballs maybe 8 or 9 feet from the speakers, the soundstage is amazing...doesn’t seem to be coming from the floor one bit. I use 2 older REL subs so the low end is covered, and all my other gear is well vetted. I’ve considered trying Forte IIIs as they also have titanium mids but these days it's kind of hard to find a clean pair...the Volti Razz also interests me but their NO RETURNS FOR ANY REASON policy rules them out...am I supposed to go to some audio show and sit in front of a pair for hours? I refuse. I’ll never use anything but horns in my main system as the increased efficiency and tonal immediacy beats "drivers in a box" all day...and all night...

@curiousjim 

Thank you. I am using H4s with a sub so I am covered. Your response has placed me at ease.

The two are very similar in soundstage.  The difference in the two is the Forte has a fuller sound and a bit better bass.

I dont mean to be unappreciative, but the question was...preface first...I have heard online that Forte Iv's have better soundstange than the H4. Is this true? If this is true, what in the Forte causes this improvement?

None of the Klipsch Heritage line have a problem with producing soundstage. Take it from someone that owns La Scala AL5s. 

If you've never owned Klipsch....you can pick up a new pr. Heresy  IV's for $2500.....see if you like the K-sound....then , move up the line.....

Proper listening triangle and correct toe-in Forte’s have massive soundstage in my main rig. 20 watt SET 300b driving 845 output tubes, volume pot never past 10 o’clock.  Does it sound live? Close! 

"If you’re serious about soundstage, you can’t be serious about Klipsch."

First time hearing such a thing. The Heritage line has a huge loyal following of a lot of very experienced listeners, and a fanatical fan base, so would be interesting to hear why they would not have "soundstage" when that is nothing that we see in reviews of these speakers. I do not own Klipsch mains, but there is nothing that would keep me from adding them to my collection.

@oddiofyl 

Yes, My MidMonos do very well with my H4's. Low volume 6.5 feet away. Really if I have an issue with the H4's, it is that the depth of the stage is usually only 3.5 feet behind the speaker, sometimes 6 feet. I would like ....always 6.5 feet.

What in the Forte 4's make the sound stage better, and I dont mean horizontal. With the H4's I can hear things behind me, I am talking about depth.

Thanks

TD

Concerning soundstage, what is causing the difference between the two speakers?

I hear that Forte soundstage is better than Heresy, but I also hear that the Cornwall soundstage is better than Forte. Arent Cornwall and Heresy using the same mid and tweeter components? Then why would Forte have better soundstage than Heresy?

Like cfarrow said,  the Forte throw a huge Soundstage.   With my 300b it's a great combo.   When called upon images extend way beyond the speaker .   

I think half the equation is the amp.  They sounded great with my  Quicksilver Mid Monos , they sound very good with my 40 watt SS Cyrus i7-XR ... can listen all day,  and incredible with my 7 watt Toolshed Amps 300b.   Huge holographic sound.  

They play nice with a number of amps.  I picked up that Cyrus on closeout, just to try it for a bedroom system.     What a great sounding amp !  I used it in my main room for the last 3 weeks with those Forte and it didn't disappoint.  It was really hot here lately so I gave the tube amps a little break. 

If you're serious about soundstage, you can't be serious about Klipsch. That said, Heresies are not much more than knee high, have now low bass, and sound like it. Fortes address both those issues. But if I were looking for the kind of dynamics Klipsch offers and soundstage and bass, I'd seriously check out JBL, maybe the HDMI 3800 or a lovely pair of used Synthesis S3900s on sale here on Audiogon for $4900. The S3900s are a serious step up into a very elite league of speaker.

My Forte IV’s are incredible, soundstage is wide and big.  On my 2a3 amps the detail and texture is exceptional.  I have had 2 reviewers from “The Audio Beat” over and they were very impressed by the lively sound I get from my 4w tube amps.  I can’t say enough about them.

Big Soundstage without a big footprint is why Ilike the Forte.    The Heresy are good , don't get me wrong but they don't have the scale and authority of Forte or Cornwall and they need a sub.   

Buy the Forte IV if you can.  They are the same footprint as the Heresy and with a 12 " woofer and 15 " passive they have great bass.  

I traded my Heresy III in toward the Forte IV.   I wasn't really looking for speakers at the time.  I went to buy my daughter a soundbar and heard the Heresy IV and CW IV.  I also listened to a pair of Forte III .   When I learned that the Forte IV would share the same Celestion mid I ordered a pair.   I have had them since the week they launched and still really enjoy them.    

They are the sweet spot in the three 

Haven’t heard the Forte but I have compared the Heresy and Cornwall. The biggest difference is that the Heresy is coming from the floor and its noticeable. I love the look of the Heresy but that’s the main issue that’s keeping me from buying them. I think they lose the coolness factor when on stands.  I'm still going back and forth between the Heresy and Forte and remain undecided.  The Forte is a significant jump in price, and I'm not a fan of their generic look, despite them likely solving the Heresy's main shortcomings (height/bass extension).

The Heritage line shares many of the same driver components until you get to the La Scala and above, but the horn shapes, and sizes of the cabinet will have a large impact on the overall sound, mostly in terms of scale and sensitivity.