We have had many discussions/arguments over tekton speakers in the past, mainly involving a couple posters who thought their $4000 tektons sounded better than the highest price Wilson’s and other high budget speakers.
In the latest Stereophile magazine, they did a review of the $30,000 tekton’s. In this Steteophile issue, they rate these $30,000 tekton’s as class B. When you look at the other speakers that are in the class B section, you will notice most of these speakers range in price from $5000-$8000. So it looks like you have to spend $30,000 on a pair of tekton’s to equal a pair of $5000 Klipsch Forte IV’s sound quality.
If I compare these $30,000 class B tekton’s, to some of the class A speakers, there are some class A speakers for 1/2 the price (Dutch & Dutch 8C, Goldenear triton reference), or other class A speakers that are cheaper (Magico A5, Kef blade 2).
@tektondesignwrote: "once we get into the 5-10 watt range the air pressure jets in and out of them at speeds above Mach1 and they get audible."
I do not dispute the "audible" claim, but am skeptical of the "speeds above Mach 1" claim.
North of Mach 1 might be the airspeed that a modelling program indicates but I don't think that reflects what happens in the real world. Turbulence normally sets in at around .1 (point one) Mach, or a bit higher if the fluid dynamics are favorable (which is not going to be the case with a threaded hole). Turbulence will reduce the speed of the airflow. There will be some air movement and therefore a loss of internal back-pressure on the cone in the enclosure. If it's a ported enclosure, the effective enclosure tuning frequency will be lowered a little. The more pressure the more turbulence, and it would take an enormous amount of pressure inside the enclosure to force the airspeed up to or above Mach 1.
Another mechanism that works against the airspeed reaching or exceeding Mach 1 is boundary effect. Not all of the air in a port moves uniformly (even below the onset of turbulence) - the layer of air molecules right at the surface of the port is sort of "stuck" to the surface and doesn't move at all, then the next layer of air molecules moves only a little bit, and so on until eventually the air movement is no longer affected by "stiction". For this reason flat rectangular ports tends to have a higher real-world tuning frequency than same-area-and-length round ports because more of the air in the port is up against a boundary and therefore slowed by boundary effect, reducing the port's effective cross-sectional area. I have read that the real-world "boundary layer" in a port can be approximately 1/4" thick (at high airspeeds), which would be the entirety of a 1/4" bolt hole.
I think that air's compressibility would also work against the airspeed reaching Mach 1. The "sound barrier" is the buildup of pressure in the air that is being compressed by the aircraft. The "sonic boom" is the wave of air that has reached its compressibility limit because the aircraft has reached or exceeded the speed of sound, which is the speed at which the air molecules can no longer move out of the way fast enough. I think the air in the screw holes would compress long before it goes supersonic.
Note that the air gap annulus between the voice coil and the pole piece on a woofer that has a "phase plug" instead of a dustcap does not cause audible distortion nor a significant reduction in performance. This is because there is so much turbulence and/or other airflow-inhibiting mechanisms in play that there is effectively zero airflow though that gap. Now the dimensions and geometry are of course very different for a screw hole, but I offer this as an example of an opening that would cause problems if not for these real-world mechanisms that inhibit airflow through small openings.
If the airspeed through the screw holes actually did reach or exceed the speed of sound, I think it would sound like a bottle rocket was accompanying the bass notes.
That being said, I do think that well below the speed of sound the turbulent airflow through the screw holes could cause a high-pitched version of port chuffing, which might be like a whistling that accompanies bass notes.
If the airspeed through the screw holes actually did reach or exceed the speed of sound, I think it would sound like a bottle rocket was accompanying the bass notes.
I think if the airflow exceeded the speed of sound it would launch the speaker into the ceiling...
Here’s some interesting reading, and yes I know it's Amir.
The measurements are not the point, the graphs are not the point. The point is another bad review gets the " Take that down immediately or I'll sue you!" threat.
The response from the owner of Tekton is interesting.
Also, here is an excerpt from the review if you want to skip all the graphs and sciency stuff...
Note the date:
As of this date, April 11, 2024, despite promising otherwise, company has NOT provided any measurements of any kind for this speaker. I have repeatedly asked Eric Alexander, company founder and designer, both in emails and in this thread to do so but he has refused. Yet, he has demanded that I delete the review or he would litigate against me and ask for damages. Until such time that he proves with measurements that he has a case, this review will stand.
At these speeds, if you placed the speaker with no feet on a stand and the stand was blocking the 4 holes, wouldn’t each speaker have lift off or at least move around on the stands? Was this port/hole speed tested in the review?
I posit that if 4 holes can make the speaker go super sonic, then drilling 16 holes in the bottom of it will enable it to attain mach4, thus besting the SR71 in speed.
I wonder if Tekton R&D has tried this? I’ll email him and ask...he seems to be a pretty receptive fellow😁
This could open up a whole new field of aeronautics!
Of course they’d be the ugliest things that have ever flown...
Anybody know how many people can fit in an Ulfberht?
At any rate, it all depends how speaker sounds to YOU with YOUR gear and the music YOU prefer. Who cares who rates what if you like it?
Having said that, I always read measurements, esp speakers since I can predict pretty well if I may like or dislike speakers. If I didn’t like some highly reviewed speaker I always asked myself why. I studied measurements, woofer/tweeter materials, music used by the reviewer. Eventually I found things that always appeared in speakers (and headphones) that I liked and some features that made me dislike some types of gear.
I have no opinion on Tektons and never heard them. But from measurements it appears that they are very hard to drive (down to 1.5 Ohms), have very difficult impedance and show serious bump around 50-200 Hz. Some may like them bassy, some not. All depends on your gear. Maybe your favorite music benefits from increase in bass. Maybe not.
And guess what - JA said speakers need careful placement against walls to achieve neutral balance. So I am not crazy I guess.
So just to be clear, Tektons only have one tweeter-and that's every single speaker they sell. The rest are midrange drivers in a circular pattern around the tweeter. I had a pair of Electron Se which are basically double impact's with 8" woofers Instead of the 10". I enjoyed them when I had them. I was a crossover upgrade person so I did a lot of that kind of thing but they were a respectable sounding speaker. I now have Legacy Signature SE' which I like quite a bit although they've got too many parts in their crossovers IMO.
After the most recent childish tantrum thrown (again) by Tekton owner Eric Alexander, I will never be purchasing from them again. I won't support a company with that kind of toxicity. Next,
Another point not to be missed is the fact that if Eric continues to behave in this fashion, the company will be out of business regardless of the quality of the product.
There's a reviewer on YouTube who did some satire on this whole affair playing the role of Eric. Too lazy to go back and find the link. He even stated up front his dad is a lawyer who handles these kind of lawsuits and will volunteer his time free of charge to anyone who's being sued by Eric. Maybe that, too, helped to calm things down.
I don't think that he said anything here that was that offensive. He defended his company and his design philosophy, and I don't see a problem with that. Of course, as @deep_333said in essence, innovators who are successful will always be popular targets.
I don’t care for what you just stated and you’re doing the audiophile community a great disservice by omitting certain parameters of the entire discussion. Your off axis comments are not accurately representing the whole picture. There are four holes in your statement that without rectifying will lead to supersonic consequences. I demand you retract your statement or I will start litigation against you first thing in the morning. That of course doesn’t mean I’m suing you as I interpret it. Don’t take this lightly, as I am a genius with several product awards and an honorable mention at my 4th grade science fair. Furthermore, my mom says so...
All kidding aside, the premise of your defense of the Tekton owner’s threats and behavior is just plain weak. It’s ok for him to act the way he did because, you know, a lot of other guys are like that too. And none of you guys are Saints either!! Don’t presume to know how I am. What you call "a bit eccentric and not too socially polished"(way to white wash his behavior) I call an arrogant bully. Your defense doesn’t cut it. Try it in a court of law: " Members of the jury, you should let my client go free because a lot of other guys have done what he did, and none of you are Saints!" Doesn’t fly in a court of law, and it doesn’t fly in the Court of Public Opinion.
@thecarpathianLet me put it this way. If I was in this biz, i’d be posting all my measurements with the specs for what I sell. But, if I observed faulty measurements on some fanatic’s site (and his ’recommendations’), I would be continually sueing him into poverty.
He will be writing reviews in court, paying me for damages, as he cries a river to guys like you.
I guess I have to retract what I said. I forgot that he was threatening to sue people. I doubt that he had any valid grounds for that, and I think that he knew that it was an empty threat.
I think people should put themselves in his place.
You wake up one morning and see a video about something that you created and it has what you believe to be false information. Okay, you're not happy about it and contact the video maker. Maybe that doesn't go the way you like either. Next you go to a popular forum that deals with your craft and discover that a few posters have managed to rile up what amounts to an online lynch mob, with some posters dropping snide remarks in every post they can. Most of of these people don't even have first hand experience with your product. They are attacking you and your family's livelihood, plus that of your employees and their families.
How would you feel? Are you getting angry yet?
This must have rolled into one big snowball of stress for the guy and i believe people need to cut him some slack.
@newfzx7but that's NOT what happened. You can color it however you want, there was no any such reaction after that review that was positive anyway. He created a storm in a teacup where there wasn't even a breeze. It's like shooting a guy on the street and arguing self-defense saying that he looked threatening. (Yes that happened too, and was just as wrong as Tekton guy's legal and verbal threats,)
Most of of these people don’t even have first hand experience with your product. They are attacking you and your family’s livelihood, plus that of your employees and their families.
Not to mention the fact that some guys in the measurements/reviewer space are dealers for competitor brands (no conflict there, eh chief?). Brand he carries is a vehicle of technical competence (so flipping magical, mmhmm) and the others aren’t because the ’measurement’ says so apparently.
I once corrected a reviewer’s measurements on an item I owned as an end user (which he reviewed). I had measured it extensively myself and caught his bluff. Needless to say, my comment (what mattered, what didn’t, etc) and the correct data magically disappeared, which let me quickly catch on to what was going on.
Like I said, if I was in this biz, I’ll do my due diligence and preemptively post all the relevant supportive measurements with the specs for the stuff I sell. I will preemptively provide recommendations based on the type of sonic signature one may be seeking, placement, type of room, etc that work’s best for the stuff I sell. I’ll let you know if it is for you or not!!! But, if I caught some diabolical reviewer in his act, he will get sued into poverty, no ifs, no buts.
I am a business owner myself (fortunately, nothing to do with this audio crap) and my spouse is a very competent attorney. It wouldn’t cost me a dime in legal fees and I could do this all day with a smile on my face. I don’t think some guys around here know how exactly the corporate world operates, ruthless it is and so it will continue to be. You come after me and my employees’ livelihood, I will come after yours boy, it’s the way it is.
@grislybutterSo you are saying the using the justice system to correct something that has wronged you is akin to shooting someone? This is the sort of fantastical talk that gets the lynch mob going as I mentioned in my previous post.
@newfzx7do you understand what happened? Because what you described is not what happened. So from then on, your assumptions are way off.
Tekton was not wronged. It was a fair and GENEROUS review.
There was no lynch mob.
Tekton guy attacked and threatened Erin with a law suit for a review and he immediately took it down.
Do you understand what it means to be threatened with legal action FOR NOTHING? Is that in your view "using the justice system to correct something that has wronged you "????
Again, show me where Tekton was wronged in any way.
@newfzx7if you watch Erin's video, he shows all the correspondence between them. So yes, I have read and watched the facebook posts, emails, discussions as they have been published without redaction and there is nothing more to the puzzle.
There is also the Tekton guy's video that's just so disturbing in so many ways. It confirms what Erin says but puts that weird spin on what litigation means.
My original post was meant to show to the consequences to others by bashing and spreading information which may not be accurate.
I agree with that - that it would be unfair to the vendor to spread misinformation about their product
After the Eric video everything became very clear. Classic case of any number of disturbing qualities were portrayed. As far as I am concerned Erin really isnt of much interest in this story.
2 years ago I ordered the Tekton Pendragons with the 7 tweeter array for $2500....I don't know of another $2500 speaker that's even close when it comes to being musical...easy to listen to for hours....detailed but never harsh and just an overall fun speaker that anyone can enjoy ALL types of recordings. The best $2500 I've ever spent.
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