I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
@hfaddict - What is it that you understand about about compressed vs. non-compressed music?
It's true, from my findings, so far, that the DIs do not artificially goose the bass, as they are more of a pure transducer. However, they are also monsters when it comes to bringing out the dynamics inherent in any recording.
This brings us full circle to compression, as digital compression used in modern mastering (whether it's remastering an older recording or a newer one) kills dynamics. The human ear is not designed to hear everything at one level in a recording, because the ear/brain is naturally inclined to take in dynamic stimuli, as we experience it in our world around us.
To that end, I'm simply trying to get clarification, only because, as a general rule, digital compression, especially in the mastering phase of a recording = bad.
The "weaker" compression heard in some classic rock recordings can generally be attributed to mastering engineers, at the time, being taught to use compression sparingly in the mastering phase to keep the dynamics of a recording. In other words, what you hear as a lack of bass is what you're suppose to hear, because that's the way it was recorded...and then mastered accordingly. Take that same recording, and then put it in the hands of a hamfisted modern mastering engineer, and he'll probably get you that louder bass from the recording, but it cuts out the artistic integrity inherent in the original master.
Of course there is also analog compression, via tubes, which can also be abused, e. g. The Kinks early Pye recordings, The Beatles Revolver, etc., but those are outliers.
For me, I have to get my DIs off the floor, because I've heard from many that I'm simply not get a realistic bass response from them, no matter what music they're playing. So, I'm investing in some platforms. This might help you get a more desirable bass performance from your older classic rock.
Thanks David, now begins the long wait begins. Luckily I have new stuff on he way to keep me busy while I wait. I look forward to comparing notes. What color did you go with? I went with the BMW metallic grey.
Good luck with your comparison David. I imagine you're listening to tracks you're very familiar with when doing the comparison. I don't use any USB cables so I'm not of much help in your comparison.
Greg, I really like the Cerious speaker cable. I tried many others before settling on the Cerious GE's. Well worth trying in my opinion.
I saw a mention of a picture of the Double Impact SE had been captured, but I couldn't find any link anywhere. Can anyone confirm that the drivers are or aren't scanspeak for the array? Do I have to move to the mini ulfberts to get the better quality drivers?
@mac48025 Tom, I went with Mercedes Diamond Silver Metallic (the silver has a subtle light blue hue). More importantly, my wife approved the selection.
Yes, I do have testing tracks. If anyone has any additional suggestions, please share.
The USB cables are:
- Wireworld 7 Platinum Starlight - Purist Audio Design Ultimate - Audience Au24 SE - Cardas High Speed Clear
I've done two days with the Wireworld, and wrapping up the second day with the Purist.
Synergy with components is so important and since I have a new DAC on order and a possible server/renderer option...deciding on which one will be the best fit is obviously tricky (perhaps a crapshoot at this time).
This is the first round of comparisons. I'll choose my top choice and then bring in another 4.
@mac48025 Haha hey just noticed your recommendations from yesterday. Once I'm done my rotation at work, I have two days at home before I'm in another house but it's not every day the owner of a company offers his support. I'll take him up on it in the new shack. And thank you.
@evolvist My very basic understanding is mostly what you have explained in terms of reduced dynamics top and bottom. This reduces the frequency extremes as well as the loudness swings.
I do understand a lot of recordings are actually produced and mastered on purpose to sound like this as well.
The interesting part is as I’ve mentioned before, when there is an enjoyable recording, life is good and I couldn’t imagine them sounding any better, bass response included.
But I’m really thinking my specific room set up has to have issues besides the relatively easy fixes (Wall/window coverings, risers etc) I’ve been in this house for over 4 years and have been through at least 5 sets of speakers but here’s the kicker...all of my two channel systems have been upstairs in a totally different room layout including hardwood floors.
This is the first time I’ve run any speakers in this specific room. So...we’ll see what happens in the new house and go from there. Can’t wait.
Out of curiosity, when you say you suspect you may not be getting realistic bass response, are you referring to output or clarity or...?
And thanks again for the info. I can’t believe the amount of info in this thread. It’s like a DI owner’s manual. 👍
I am currently listening to the new Electrons. Not sure I liked the Western Electric 10ga with them. I believe you used them? I found them a bit harsh on top and lean in upper bass, lower midrange. Then again when I came up with this assessment as I was still breaking in the Tektons. I once borrowed a set of CT GE speaker cables for 2 months. They were too laid back for my speakers at the time, but I can see them working GREAT with the DI’s or Electrons.
I am currently using the Wireworld Eclipse 5.2 and they seem to have a nice balance with the Electrons.
Hi Tom, Congratulations on ordering the Double Impact SE speakers. Wow! You’ve been on a serious ( but well thought out) upgrading spree lately 😊. Concert Fidelity 040 DAC, Aric SEP amplifier and these speakers. In my opinion you are assembling an exceptionally fine audio system which is going to sound divine. Each choice you’ve made makes plenty of sense. I’m really looking forward to hearing your evolving creation. Charles
From these pics that were posted it’s obvious to me that no Scanspeak,Seas or peerless drivers were utilized and only the dome tweeters are flush mounted.
Maybe the good news is they retain the same 95db efficiency instead of being 92db with other drivers that were rumored to have been incorporated into the double the cost SE version.
I talked to Eric at RMAF, the DI SEs have specially made for Tekton Eminence drivers compared to OEM in the DIs. He also mentioned a worthwhile improvement in the DI SEs over the DIs, a genuine step up. Eric came across to me as a brilliant, driven, compassionate about music designer who decided to go the unconventional route and follow his ideas, the results speak for themselves. I was in Eric's room frequently over the 3 days of RMAF, the public really didn't know the value of the DIs as most guests I spoke with had no idea the upgraded DIs were only $3300/pr delivered, I heard guesses from $5K to $15K. These showgoers were just basing their cost estimates on what they heard elsewhere at the show and were mostly 2 to 5 times higher than the actual cost. I'll remind Eric to have a banner for the room next show to boast about the affordable cost of the DIs. My experience at RMAF is that the DIs embarrassed many speakers and systems at 2 to 10 times the retail of Eric's room. He used top notch Parasound separates, and 5K power cords were nowhere to be found. In the hotel room, the DIs disappeared, stage started 2 feet behind the speakers and went deep and wide, dynamics were startling at times, vocals focused dead center at the right height, very detailed yet no edge or glare, drum kits and orchestral bass drums had room pressurizing impact, and I found myself singing along with some of the tracks on my demo disc. Eric assured me he has more design ideas connected with his patent, so get ready for more disruptive products from Tekton. Congratulations Eric and the Tekton team for a successful show!
I have absolutely no desire for the upgrades and finding the “perfect” synergy with the pairing of the 2170 and room perfect means I will step off the merry go round and just enjoy the music.
Out of curiosity, when you say you suspect you may not be getting realistic bass response, are you referring to output or clarity or...?
Yeah, I mean, I'm entering into the world of speculation, because I haven't experienced it yet, but it makes sense, that getting proper stands for the speaker should give better bass clarity. Depending on how the room is set up - the geometry and lack or presence of of room treatment - might bring out the bass a bit more with that clarity, or maybe not. Again, this is speculative on my part.
I guess I'm saying that clarity should trump volume in the older recordings, because perhaps with more clarity that covers more sins vs. amplitude and muddiness.
I have absolutely no desire for the upgrades and finding the “perfect” synergy with the pairing of the 2170 and room perfect means I will step off the merry go round and just enjoy the music.
That's fantastic news, Kenny! I look forward to reading your review of the Lyngdorf.
It might sound odd, but I've grown a bit weary of tinkering and tweaking. I would like to get off of the merry-go-round, as well.
David, sounds like a sweet color, looking forward to seeing pics when you get them.
Aniwolf, I used the WE wire about a year ago and then the Duelund 16 ha and liked them but I much prefer the Cerious Technologies wire.
Thanks Charles, I'm hoping that my system is nearly complete when the new amp and SE's are in. Then I can do like you and just sit back and enjoy music for many years to some 🎼 🔉
I will say the SE's will be my speaker for a very long time to come......unless I win the lottery:)
Quite the freudian typo! Obviously I meant to type "come" instead of "some".
So so now that I've paid for the SE's the hard part begins......the wait! Hope you get yours soon David as that will give me hope that I'm not too far off.
Obviously I have no reservations regarding Eric's driver selection as he must have chosen what he went with for good reason. As Kenny already mentioned Scanspeak drivers would have decreased efficiency and maybe Eric didn't want that. The Emminence woofers he went with have magnets that weigh 6 pounds more than those in the DI's which probably lead to the improved bass and I believe he went with Wavecore tweeters. I'm out of my league discussing component choices but after talking to two of the group that heard the SE's last week I'm very confident that the SE's are definitive step up from the DI's......and that's saying a lot as the DI's are tremendous.
@david_ten - If I am going to upgrade from the DI's, I'd like to do it once and not a second time down the road. The Mini Ulfberts should have the premium SEAS drivers that I'd like to hear in the next speaker upgrade I go with. They are very good sounding drivers. In no way do I dislike the pro-level drivers in my DI's, quite the contrary, they are fine, but if I am going to spend more than double the price I would like to see the parts quality increase as a function of that price. I would also like to see the bass drivers flush mounted as well.
Eric is pretty picky about the sound he wants. I honestly don't think he would make a choice just to save a few bucks. I agree with Mac. If Eric chose the drivers, I am more than comfortable with them. It also sounds like now he has enough buying power to specify Tekton specific drivers to get him even closer to what he wants.
Maybe anyone with concerns can discuss more what any specific concerns might be? I'd be interested to hear that. I think it would be a good topic.
@jcarcopo Thanks! That's what I understood from the first posts by you and Kenny...just wanted to be sure. And your position is understandable.
As @vitop mentions above, this is a good discussion to have.
I was under the impression that Eric was using Peerless when I ordered, but I did not have confirmation on that. It will be good to hear more from Eric and from Mike Kay once the specs are finalized.
Makes total sense to me also, Jcarcopo. Knowing Eric he will probably have a new DI like model in another year or so, but I’ll be fine with the current SE’s. Going with the SE’s is in no way a indication of any disappointment in the DI’s on my part, they are moving to my theater system. I’ll break that news to the wife after a few drinks 🍻😦🤑
Jcarcopo, My speaker’s drivers are all Scanspeak, two 10" woofers, two 6,5" midrange and their esteemed 1" Revelator tweeter. So to a certain degree I see your point concerning presumed upgrade drivers. However I’d give Eric much benefit of the doubt regarding his choice of drivers in the SE speakers.
I know that the bottom line for you is how do they sound? This is the only meaningful goal. Based on early listening impressions feedback it seems to me that these are truly top caliber sophisticated speakers. My gut feeling is that these speakers driven by your excellent Art Audio 300b amplifier will sound stunningly good. I really believe that would be your outcome. Charles
@mac48025, Why are you holding on to your DI's?? Some of us want more bang for our buck, and are waiting for people to offload their DI's when they upgrade/ climb up the Tekton ladder.
Charles: I think people expect not only better sound but coupled with better/quality drivers at certain price points. After all, that's what was mentioned earlier on. I also understand that some don't care for looks either. You can make coffin speakers with dead bodies in them. As long as the dead body can sing to their liking, that is all that matters to them. I am not saying the Tekton's are ugly but I would love to see some improvements there as well.
Hi Musikmann, Yes as I acknowledged people do have certain expectations as the cost rises. My perspective is the major justification for more expensive parts is they will provide improved sound quality. Believe me, I am an advocate of high quality part utilization "if" it means better sound (and reliability). If Eric gets superb sound with the SE's chosen drivers I say more power to him 😊.
As far as cosmetics are concerned I do appreciate attractive and elegant audio components but recognize the truly subjective nature of taste. Charles
Musikman, I'll make you a great deal on them......10% off retail and local pick up only. Still interested? Lol. Seriously though I might sell them some day as the wife won't be thrilled having them back in the family room, but I want to enjoy them with some SS amps for a while......with hopes she will get used them :)
While the drivers in the SE's aren't the Scanspeak drivers some were hoping for, they are upgraded......along with the crossovers, cabinets and wiring. Aesthetically they aren't for everyone but when painted in a high gloss finish I think they look quite nice. From those listening to them last week the consensus was that the SE's take all of the good qualities of the DI's and build upon them with better and more bass, more refinement and silkier mids. Making a few improvements to the DI's is no small feat and for another $2300 more than the DI's with the upgrade package and high gloss paint, I feel they will be well worth it but can understand those that want even more.
Mofojo, To clarify I don't own the Double Impacts. I was referring to the Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers I have. I was just giving an example of speakers that have Scanspeak drivers due to them being the topic of recent posts. Charles
@mac48025, I thought about your offer but decide to wait on your DI SE's instead when you upgrade to the soon to be released Double Impact SE Turbo MK2.
Brief RMAF coverage of the Tekton rooms by Patrick Dillon of AudioMatters...
"
Tekton Design There's been enormous buzz on various forums about Tekton Design's speakers. Chief Eric Alexander was on hand in one room to demo a pair of floorstanders ($3k) with Parasound amps, while the Parasound room down the hall used a pair of his Double Impact Monitors in their system. Visually, these are nothing special but the multi-tweeter design does catch the eye.
My conversation with Eric was interesting. He is a man on a mission who has a distinct view that most speakers are following the wrong design principles. He aims to develop products which respond more like the natural wavelaunch of real instruments in terms of moving mass and speed. I admire his passion and wish him well. Quick take: the floorstanders looked as if they would power out the bass with their dual large woofers, but were remarkably light in that regard. Might have been something to do with the recordings chosen (Eric Clapton live at San Diego mostly when I was there on two occasions). There's a sort of planar quality to the sound that is deceptive given the box nature of the design. The monitors delivered a Michael Hedges track on a Marantz table through Parasound amplification with tremendous body and detail, and provide stiff opposition to many other monitors at the $2k price point. I could easily see a great music system being build around them. Indeed, that Parasound room with the Marantz TT15-s1 ($1495, Clearaudio MM cartridge included) into a Halo JC 3 Jr phono ($1495, to be released later this year) and Halo Integrated ($2595), all connected up with the more affordable end of Straight Wire cable ($670 for the lot used) was one such rig. Great sound all round for less than $10k the lot."
I heard the Tektons for the first time at RMAF and was stunned. This is coming from someone with Magnepan 3.7i's with an Audio Research Ref6 and Sanders Magtech. The Tektons are very well-suited for rock music.
@charles1dad - Message received sir and I'm sure the DI SE is a fine sounding loudspeaker and would be an upgrade sonically. I've talked with Eric about them and the Ulfberts and even about a hypothetical speaker that's in-between the two price points that he was conjuring up to fill in the lineup between the SE and the Ulfbert, but not the size of the Ulfbert . More Double Impact-esque, not mini-Ulfbert. Unfortunately, my financial situation changed and I put the project on hold for now, but hope to revisit it next year. So any excuse I come up with as to not wanting the DI SE is at least partially predicated on convincing myself I don't want them as a stalling tactic because I want something better and partially because I can't swing the dough at the moment for what I really want.
You might be surprised how many of us, who love our Magnepans, moved on to the DI's. It is IMO an overall better transducer of music. I was shocked when I first got these and noted more detail and ambient information than my 1.7's--not to mention the dynamics, efficiency, and far superior bass response. The Magnepans will always be special to me, but if I could only have one speaker it would be the DI's
Thanks for the info. Eric might have changed direction then. I've been waiting for a speaker smaller than the Ulbert but with the same double tweeter array. I guess I need to touch base and see if that is now off the design table. Those Ulfs are just way too big for me.
Jcarcopo, I didn't really want to spend the extra money for the SE's and was half hoping they would only be slightly better than the DI's so that I wouldn't have to, so adjusting our desires to meet our budgets is most understandable! I do it all the time. The good thing for you is that you already have a great system and can continue enjoying it without any changes.......besides, you have those eye candy amps to stare at all day :)
Limniscate and Corelli. I too had Maggie's for many years and had the 1.7i's right before getting the DI's. Great speakers, but the DI's get me closer to my sonic goals.
Can someone explain how the tweeter configuration in Tekton speakers works? When I put my ear close to each tweeter it's hard to tell whether or not there is sound emanating from that particular driver as they are so close to the other tweeters. It seems that if one of those tweeters (or an associated crossover component) fails, it might not be obvious. Or, is it like the old Christmas tree lights where if one failed they all went dark? When a driver in a conventional speaker fails it is obvious because such a large portion of the sound spectrum is lost. Not so with Tektons. Please explain. Thanks.
Has anyone heard the
GoldenEar Triton Reference Loudspeaker?
I'm looking for speakers that are pretty thin that would fit into my environment, but I am thinking I'd give up a lot in sound moving from the Tektons. Anyone heard them both? I might try to see if I can find a pair to listen to. Their center does not impress me much though.
The Legacy Audio line has some really good sounding speakers when you get into the higher end and their centers sound really good also.
That Vaughn plasma tweeter has me interested also, but the only speaker that has it integrated is their highest end one and then there are still two outboard power supplies and they don't have a real across the board HT line.
"The monitors delivered.....tremendous body and detail, and provide stiff opposition to many other monitors at the $2k price point. I could easily see a great music system being built around them." Totally agree with that assessment and would add if you have a decent subwoofer already the price/performance point is off the chart!
@vitop I auditioned the GE T Ref. Dealer setup and room was shabby.
BUT...these are very good speakers. Given how well the T Ones are thought of and reviewed, the T Ref is much better.
I would point someone who loves and prioritizes bass towards them without hesitation, yet they remain delicate and refined through the high frequencies. I was worried about size but they are a narrow speaker.
No, I meant a center speaker in a HT setup. I am probably one of the few on the list that is looking for a HT speaker solution. Most are 2 channel people.
Yeah, I doubt that the Golden Ears would be better than the Tektons, but they fit and they are available. The problem is that the center speaker is pivotal in HT and I don't like their offering there. I think too many companies put something out there without realizing how important that speaker is.
One of my previous finalists was the Persona line of speakers by Paradigm. They put a lot of money into their center. They really have a nice center. It was going to actually be better than the L & R speakers I was going to pair it with. IMO, that is the way HT should be. I want to have a L& R that can hold it's own with music also, but the Persona speakers just get too expensive (for me) when you get into the really nice L& R speakers.
Then I heard the Tektons and thought that was the total package -- they have both.
I’ve located a couple of dealers here in Houston for the T Ref. I’ll probably go listen to them. In your opinion, how much would I give up from the Tektons if I went with them? The narrow configuration work well for me.
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