I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
@agronatz Beyond price, we all have our top 3... the things we treasure most... such as clarity, imaging, huge soundstage, sounstage depth, soundtage height, dynamic impact, no stridency, etc, etc, etc.
And, key for most of us, how to get the most for the least...(constrained budget).
My guess is that if Tekton markets a 4 ohm speaker it's because they think it sounds best that way... They are not going to add a cheap resistor that bumps it to 8 ohms but screws up the intended voicing.... meaning if you want an 8 ohm version (which other companies wouldn't offer) Tekton is going to make sure it sounds right.... so I'm ok with having options and paying for them as long as I know what I'm getting.
I’ve certainly changed the conversation over here a little . I didn’t mean too. SPL’s, hearing loss, drag racing, even car audio’s .. Sorry guys ..
I appreciate the lack of condescending comebacks .. After my review, I expected at least a few. Notta one. I’m impressed. This is a Tekton thread. With 95 % of participants absolutely in love with their product. You mentioned imaging being important. You have to give Tekton credit there, they image stellar.
Speaking of B&W . I have a appointment next week to listen to a set of 702 and 3’s along side a pair of Focal 936 .. They don’t stock 948’s . I’m not really expecting to like them, but I’m going in open minded and ears open....Time to start lookin around
BTW .. Mom smoked 2 packs a day .. She would have been 90 if she lived another month. I loved the looks on those doctors faces when they would find out her smoking habits ..
Hi nitrobob, Regarding the heavy cigarette smokers,There will always be outliers found in any group or population. I'm not surprised by the absence of condescending replies, there are many good folks on this thread. You'll find a speaker that will meet your particular needs. Charles
Nitrobob, No need to be sorry. Many times conversations wander and in this thread it seems no personal attacks were launched. An exchange of ideas and experiences should be the main goal. Please keep us informed on your speaker quest by posting here or directing to a new thread from this one. Good Luck and Happy Listening!
@nitrobob, I have a pair of B&W 804s in the same room as the DIs originally and now the Ulfs. After reading all the fluff-up on the DIs on another site, I waved the BS flag on all the folks who were trashing the speaker and had never been in the same room with them. So, not to be them, I purchased a pair of DI with the upgrades to A/B with my long loved 804s. To my surprise, the DIs displaced the 804s handily. Just a comment on what I found with my Tekton/B&W comparison. That doesn't mean you won't like the 7 series. But I do know in the clean/loud mode you seek, I can't imagine you thinking the 7s will do a better job. But I also couldn't imagine the DIs displacing my 804s either! And I'm also a drag racer. Not nitromethane, but twin turbos. If you're running nitro, you must really be into the "hobby"!!
I’m hoping the Focals suit our fancy, just because the sensitivity is better. I also would like to run up north and listen to a set of Legacy Signatures, but the reviews are not good. Sue is really adamant that we are done buying unheard speakers. That limits my choices considerably . When UPS said ( and they weren’t bashful !) the shipping was 300 dollars to send the DI’s back, she was not impressed. But being a racer, traveling is not a big deal. We will think nothing of jumping in the Hauler and driving 8 hours to our next race . You know how it is ..
I race Superstock. Mid 9’s in class trim. Wheelstands are the norm. If it will open, I’ll post another in car camera run. This one is a local race just for fun. Friends of ours put on a Stock/Superstock combo a few times a year. The little guys have the big guys chase them down. No heads-up runs, but its a good time ..
Nice!! Car flies. People think Audiophiling is expensive? My wife refers to mine as the black hole in the garage into which we pour money. But she actually enjoys it and is always there with me as pit crew. This is a video of my street legal 2001 Bullitt Edition Mustang. I don't really compete with it. I just go to open event, T&Ts etc and have fun. I was wishing the BendPak I have in the garage was in the house when we were trying to get the Ulfs upstairs! https://youtu.be/WekWPfvbtGw
Oh, and if you have a Hauler, you really are into the money. I am the guy on the cheap with the open trailer behind the F250PSD. Also, Eric was also pretty heavily into drag racing one time. When/if you talk to him again, ask him about it if you two haven't discussed it already. He was a Plymouth guy if my memory serves me correctly.
Awesome videos bullitt and nitro. One question, where do you put the subwoofers in those cars? 🔉😜🔉
On a different note, my SE's have finally shipped. With the holidays I'm not sure if I'll get them next week or not. They're the closest I'll get to having a race car with their BMW metallic mineral grey finish. I should have gone with the Ferrari red.
I must say say my DI's are sounding better than ever with the Gaia I footers. I'm still amazed at how much they cleaned up the sound. Maybe they are even more effective on my carpet on concrete floors.
@mac48025 - Have to agree with you on the IsoAcoustics footers. I got the Iso-Pucks for my Impact Monitors and they improved all aspects of sound quality. Just today, I ordered a set for my subs. Great bang for the buck!
Similar to the Gaia footers, I recently installed 3 Aurio Pros under each of my Electrons and it really opened up the sound. I feel the detail retrieval ,soundstage width/depth and bass articulation was impacted the most. Amazing tweak for someone that doesn’t want to replace drivers, caps or wires.
mac48025 Subwoofers? Why? Those cars make some of the most beautiful music known to man. LOL 1400 wheel HP at WOT and twin turbos. It's quite the crescendo. But I did compete in IASCA car sound competition with out 1996 Impala SS. Strangely enough, it had an all digital front end using Alpine components. Rare in those days. So now with the Lyngdorf my home audio finally caught up with my 1996 car audio system. :-)
All the talk of listening levels, piqued my curiosity....
This is non-calibrated, via an App.
'The Wanderings of the Avener' by The Avener I'm listening to this Lounge/House music right now and am averaging 76dB with 87dB max levels. This is about the loudest I listen. I'd rather listen to this about 5dB below these levels, say 70dB average with 80dB peaks.
Most of my music (jazz and other acoustic music) I listen to ranges in the 50s and 60s with peaks around 70 and just over.
I tested it with two different apps and two different devices and all four readings were +/- 1 to 2dB of each other.
David, We're you using A or C weighted scale for your readings? Curious as C weighted will measure roughly 8 to 10 db higher at a given volume if a meter allows switching between the two scales. I use C weighted/fast scale. Charles
Hi Charles. I'm pretty sure these apps are using the A scale. But none of them specify. Their 'metrics' provided for comparison fit that scale. Neither offer the option to switch.
@david_ten really enjoying that John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman. When Bad Plus gets too busy, I move to Bill Evans. My LM508 does a respectable job with stand up bass but I'm still looking for a sub to pressurize the room for that captivating concert feel.
Corelli - Those Hsu subs look like a good value play. Rock will sound better, but I'm hoping acoustic bass lines pop and become prominent in jazz trios bringing that small venue concert feel to the listening room. Let us know how that integration goes with the DI's
Tom, do you understand the physics behind the footers you are using? Does this dissipate cabinet vibrations? I've traditionally been avoided less than solid interfaces to the floor. But it might make sense, especially on concrete, if they function as an energy drain. $1200 is a bit of an investment--wonder how this compares in magnitude to a crossover upgrade.
David, the Hsu subs in terms of value and performance seem to be in the same camp as the DI's. I suspect they will integrate well. I do wonder about leaving the ports open vs. foam plugs. Suspect I will leave them open but we shall see. Will probably order in a few weeks.
All the talk this week has prompted me to order a decibel meter! On a side note I highly recommend noise cancelling headphones. I rarely use them for music but use them all the time for long trips (especially flights), and around power tools, lawnmowers, you name it.
Hey corelli, From what I understand the Gaia isolation footer drain the vibrational energy from the speakers, diminishing distortion. They don't change the sound signature of the DI's at all, they clean things up allowing their sound to emerge more clearly. It's one of those subtleties that make for a significant improvement. I'm not sure if it's on the level of a crossover upgrade as I've never done one, but it was a very surprising and pleasant improvement.
Adding subs to the DI's/SE's is intriguing. I don't find myself wishing for more bass with the DI's, it would be interesting hearing what a pair of subs might provide. Maybe a pair of Tekton Brisance?
My sentiments exactly David. It's been a pleasure sharing my joy of music and audio with everyone here.....especially in such a cordial and welcoming manner. Happy Holidays everyone.
I would like to try the GAIA footers on my Tektons but the weight of the DI’s would require the GAIA II. I have thin carpet on concrete and wondered if they had spikes? The spikes I see look like they only fit the GAIA I.
Lance, I would recommend the Gaia I's with the DI's. I was told by the sales rep that they lose effectiveness at their upper weight limits. Supposedly that's true of all isolation products. I was hoping to get away with the Gaia II's since they're half the price but I'm glad I went with the Gaia I's......especially since I'll move them to the SE's. Their carpet spikes are one size fits all. They are metal dishes the footers set into with spikes on the bottom. BTW, the footers come nicely boxed with three different sized thread options.....1/4-20 and two larger metric sizes. I'm going to replace the existing 1/4-20 threaded grommets installed into the speaker cabinets with ones that have the largest thread size of the Gaia's. It would be a much more substantial thread size and since 5 of the 8 grommets have already come loose from the speakers I need to remedy that anyways.
@klh007 , I still have the Mirror Image amps, all 400 watts into 4 Ohms running the DIs and sounding fantastic. The LTA Ultralinear is currently breaking in powering my Janszen zA21.1s and surprisingly loud with 20 watts powering 87 dB speakers.
Yes, I have maple and brass but always looking to try something new. My new Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix Cables are now settling in with the DIs and oh boy do they make a difference.
I will move the Ultralinear downstairs with the DIs soon but I already know this Ultralinear amp is very special. More to come.
Thanks for the update Lance. I'll have to come down in 2018 and hear the new amps and GM cables. I heard a demo of the Gaia footers at RMAF and the difference was noteable.
Is there anyone in Florida with DI’s that would be willing to host a preview? I am in St. Petersburg but am willing to drive to hear some in person. Current setup is; VPI Scout with Dynavector 10x5 Jasmine phono preamp Prima Luna Prologue Premium Preamp First Watt M2 Welborne Labs Laurel II 300b Momoblocks Welborne Labs Moondog 2A3 Monoblocks Welborne Labs Star Chief 45 Monoblocks Decware Taboo Monoblocks Klipschorns I am used to high efficiency speakers and low powered SET amps and wonder if I have enough power to make the DI’s sing. Thanx for any consideration.
captmobley, Not sure how much of this thread you have read but MANY have used amps similar to yours and have been thrilled by the pairing. Unless you listen to a significant amount of demanding large scale works (which I doubt given your amp preference) you would likely be very happy indeed.
Count me in on wishing all my friends here on this thread a Blessed Christmas. I've said more than once it's given me much pleasure to exchange different ideas on this thread and learn from each others experiences. Also it's been great getting to know each others interests outside of the audio world that we all so enjoy.
Tom, that would make sense with your footers. Like you, my audio room has a concrete foundation. Hard to drain energy into concrete! As long as these footers limit lateral movement of the speaker, I would be interested at some point. Regarding subs, I looked at the Tekton subs. Very big and heavy, limited info, ? specs makes the Hsu subs an easy pick. Compact, many great reviews, and very well documented specs make me very confident these would take me down to just under 20Hz flat. To be very clear, I do not want more bass out of my DI's, I want flat extension into the lowest octave. As I write this, I am listening to "An English Christmas" recorded in Westminster Cathedral (a great Cd in quality and performance, especially given it was a DDD/1986). I remember my old Mirage M-5si's, with two little 6.5" woofers, achieved greater "room lock" than any speaker I have owned (the Rotel 990 amp/Audioquest midnight did their part). Having had the great pleasure of touring many of England's great cathedrals and hearing a few of their organs and choirs, it's an experience not easily forgotten. So when I listen to these great choirs, brass, and organ I want to feel those big pipes that I know are part of the performance.
Thanx for the response. I just spent several months in northern Europe and toured lots of cathedrals and heard incredible music also. My Klipschorns have been in the corners for 21 years now and it’s hard to change. I’m almost there. I have a pair of bookshelf Tektons in my bedroom system and I heard Pendragons at RMAF 2015 and was very impressed. I’m in Syracuse, NY for the next few days if anyone could host me here.
captmobley, Suggest you hold on to your K-horns and just order up the DI's. You'll never know if it's for you until heard with your equipment in YOUR room. Some will disagree, but for me an audition will take you just so far given the variables involved. If you like the Pendragons, that is encouraging. The DI's will take you to another level.
So what performance was most memorable on your recent tour?
Wish you were near me Captmobley as I'd invite you over to hear the DI's and SE's ......but only if you returned the favor and let me hear your system! I love my 300B but also having a 2A3 and 845 is extreme and totally cool in my eyes.
I agree with corelli that it would be best to hear the DI's in your room with your equipment. I think you'd be very happy with them but after 21 years with the Khorns your ears might having trouble adjusting to something else. The DI's are efficient but not Khorn efficient and that might end up being a deal breaker for you.
Stop it corelli! All your talk of choirs, cathedrals and pipe organs has me yearning for a pair of subwoofers now! :)
I would imagine the Gaia 2’s would work great with the regular DI’s? They support up to 120lbs.. The DI’s weigh only 106 lbs. Now the SE’s maybe are a different story as they weigh 120lbs.
For cheaper alternative to the Gaia’s at only $200, a set of 3 Symposium Rollerblock Jr’s. The only issue with those is you don’t want to bump into your speakers, they might slide off the Rollerblocks and fall O.O So if you have kids or curious animals...maybe not a good choice. You want 3 bearing devices so you can create an equal triangle underneath the speakers. Once installed your speakers will basically float. Decoupling speakers is in my opinion something that should not be ignored. The results will be very obvious and very positive IMHO.
As Mac mentioned they drain vibrations which would allow the components inside and outside the speaker cabinet to perform at a much higher potential. So in a sense it would improve the crossover.
If your a soundstage and imaging fan, then decoupling devices are a must IMHO. I have them pretty much throughout my system.
I was under the same impression aniwolfe, but when I went to order the Gaia II's they suggested the Gaia I's as the footer lose effectiveness the closer you get to their upper weight limits. So even though the Gaia II's would technically work for the 106 lb DI's, the Gaia I's will work much better. I guess the less they are compressed the more unwanted vibrations they can deal with.
I agree, properly decoupling the DI's brought about a very pleasant sound improvement that I wasn't expecting. I'm think that being on a concrete floor made the decoupling even more effective?
Those Symposium Rollerblocks seem like a very cost effective alternative. Great point, reducing vibrations within the speaker does improve the crossovers!
Corelli, I caught a recital at the Cathedral in Rotterdam, which has the largest mechanical pipe organ in Europe, The organ has 7900 pipes, and I think the organist used every one! I’m not a true classical fan, but pipe organs are the largest musical instrument in the world, so you have to experience them in all their glory.
If one isn't listening to the Pipe Organ or Movies with an excess of LFE or music that consistently goes below, lets say 30Hz, would those of you using subs with your DIs still recommend them? If so, what will they bring to the show, so to speak? : ) Thanks.
Captmobley, I am in Tampa and I have some DI's that I need to move out of my house soon. They aren't hooked-up but I will give someone a great deal on them if someone wants to come get them.
Posting on SPLs to make the point about how enjoyable I find the DIs, in this case the SEs, to be at lower playback volumes. And because it raises some questions regarding levels at which we (any one of us) listen to our music.
Listening to Saraste’s Jota arogonesa Op. 27 with Julia Fischer on violin.
Average of 51dB with the bulk of the music in the high 40s to mid 50s, with very little music above 60, in this piece, and at the gain setting I’m at. These are considered ’quiet library to normal conversational levels’ (40s-50s).
I remember @teajay mentioning a preference for listening at lower levels. Terry, would the above be in the range that you typically listen, not counting dips and peaks (and taking into account the obvious shifts based on the genre of music being listened to)?
For example, I followed the above and chose a pop recording to get a feel for the difference between Saraste and Jessie Ware’s ’Wildest Moments.’ Perhaps a first ever tie-in between the two! :)
By the way, I’m not trying to get into the ’loundness wars’ stuff...With Ware the bulk of the music was never below 60dB with an average of 69dB. My gain settings were identical on the preamp (position 28 out of 100) for both recordings.
Since the subject was raised a day or so ago, I’m curious as to what levels most of the DI owners in the thread listen at? Has anyone measured their listening ranges?
I am very interested. I am currently in upstate New York but will be home next Friday. I can come over with a source and amp to test drive them. I’ll let you know when I’m home. Thanx, Jim
Oh the many similarities between microwave and audio. Speed of light ~ speed of sound, waveguide/cavity modes ~ room modes and case in point, electrical ~acoustical reflection coefficient and energy coupling.
When it comes to speaker isolation, the goal is to pull as much standing wave or ringing energy away from cabinet so that it doesn't color the driver sound. Several stages of performance likely exist in this goal.
First, maximum conduction of acoustic energy from the speaker. Manufacturers may improve this by integrating solid metal bases into there cabinets to conduct maximum energy into the footers, likewise, speaker stands/platforms maximize area contacting the speaker base for maximum conduction.
Second, provide an acoustical loss mechanism. The interface and acoustical conducton of energy through spikes to the floor will always be flawed, providing reflected and unwanted energy back to the speaker. Lossy materials minimize energy at the spike floor interface, moreover, the acoustical noise ringing in your floor is attenuated before it is conducted back to your speaker.
Third, acoustically lossy material would be usless if it did not effectively conduct energy off the threads in the base of the speaker or platform. I'll guess that these footers/platforms with lossy materials could utilize several variations of materials to impedance match (acoustically of course) from metal to increasingly lossy materials in the center of the sandwich between the threaded inserts and the spike tips.
Basically reflection and transmission occur at every material boundary interface. Remember to tighten those drivers. Wait a minute, are there any gaskets between our DI cabinets and our drivers? Lossy gasket materials that allow the ideal combination of conduction AND loss should improve the sound as well.
Sorry for the long winded post or being captain of the obvious. So many of the EE designs I've worked from antennas to RCS involve similar concepts.
Merry Christmas ! Great time of year ain't it ? We're getting some snow today. Can't beat Christmas time and snow . David, I have thought of something. Remember the 110 dB's video concerts ? Those dB's are with the ENTIRE system up and running. Two powerful subs, a Center, and 2 Surrounds 4.5 feet from MLP. I have never taken readings in Stereo . Kind of changes things ... But I don't know how much ..
brotw, nice post on controlling cabinet resonance--takes some of the mystery out of how these devices work.
As many of these devices are rather expensive, does anyone have any thoughts on the more cost effective products out there or any DIY products?
As stated, the DI's have rather lively cabinets. I have my pair on steel outriggers with hard rubber footers on vinyl planks over concrete. While this is a very stable arrangement, I suspect it does little to drain xs energy from the cabinet. What about multiple sorbothane pucks under the cabinet with optimal compression as a way to drain cabinet energy while still keeping the stability of the outriggers? Or, what about sorbothane sheets or even vinyl floor tiles inside the cabinet?
Seems like with the devices your using might just be changing the resonant signature of your cabinet with the rubber devices. The best vibration draining systems I have have used are ball bearing isolation devices under my components i.e. Symposium Roller Blocks, Aurios, isoacoustics Gaia’s etc.
If your interested in DIY route. You might want to search for "DIY Roller Blocks" or "Barry Diament hip joints"
I agree corelli, Brotw helped take some of the mystery on how isolation devices work for me also and I'm experimenting with a few different isolation options.
For my DI's I've tried the Mapleshade Heavyfeet brass carpet spikes and Herbies Giant Threaded gliders before going with the Gaia I's. The first two were much better sounding than the stock spikes but neither come close to the improvements the Gaia's bring to the table IMO.
For my electronic components I've been using the Mapleshade brass Heavyfeet under the components sitting upon their 4" thick maple platform upon their isoblocks. I just ordered a set of four Isoacoustic Isopucks and Symposium Rollerblock Jr's to try in place of either the brass Heavyfeet or the isoblocks. I'll try replacing the Isoblocks first as the theory is that the brass Heavyfeet transmit vibration from the component into the maple platform for it to disappate and the isoblocks isolate the platforms from vibrations from below. At least that's my understanding. So I'll try replacing the isoblock with the other isolation devices first to see if I hear a difference so as not to disrupt Mapleshades process. Then I'll try replacing the brass Heavyfeet with the new isolators. Might isolators above and below the maple platforms work even better? Time will tell.
Thanks to aniwolfe for mentioning the Symposium Rollerblock Jr's, they're quite interesting. FWIW I went with the HDSE option.
Here's what I don't understand. With a roller block system, I envision that when the woofers are in action, there is an opposite reaction that results in the cabinet moving in the horizontal plane in the opposite direction. And then I ask, wouldn't that decrease bass impact? And what about the shorter wavelengths of the tweeters--wouldn't that smear detail as the point of wave launch is always moving?
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