I am considering the mag level feet and would like to hear some more opinions on their effectiveness. FWIW I listened to a $100K+ system yesterday with a top of the line Brinkman Table and arm after which I came home fired up my system and was quite pleased with how it compared.
Trans Fi Salvation direct rim drive turntable
Hi A'goners, I've just bought this turntable, confident it'll be my last upgrade. The rest of my system is a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage, EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player, Hovland HP200 pre/Radia power amps, Zu Definitions Mk 4 loudspeakers, so a pretty good way to listen to vinyl.
Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.
This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.
In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.
Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.
This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.
So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.
Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.
The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).
The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.
I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.
I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.
This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.
In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.
Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.
This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.
So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.
Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.
The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).
The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.
I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.
I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
326 responses Add your response
The issue with Magnetically levitated feet on a TT in my view is that if the motor is separate from the TT then it compromises the rigidity between motor pulley and platter/bearing. I have no doubt that IF one has a TT that is being subjected to vibration and feedback then it may appear to be an improvement in noise floor, however this is at the cost of speed stability. Any vibration from the floor will affect the motor and platter/bearing differently resulting in instability. An example is my back up TT - Platine Verdier. When I removed the suspension ( which is quite lossy in standard form ), the level of belt creep and oscillation was dramatically reduced - visually around 95% plus and speed stability improved. In an ideal world the motor and platter/bearing should be rigidly coupled. You might be better to put the TT with motor drive on a platform, and then put the whole platform on the maglev feet if you have feedback issues. On the subject of the magnetically levitated platter, I use the ball insert on the Verdier ( I can measure the platter lifting down to less than a micron through the use of a dial gauge calliper when the bearing spindle is adjusted such that most of the platter weight is still carried by levitation ). Grounding the bearing tightens up the bass and provides better timing and coherency, and cleaner transients with less smear. |
Sgunther, at £120 for the 3 mag feet, it's a no brainer. The only issue I'd be wary of is if your system tends twds over brightness/thinness, this might be exaggerated. In a more neutral or warmer sounding system, the SQ impvts are substantial. Lewm, thanx. There's too much sensitivity on forum boards and social media generally, we can all be too protective/defensive over comments construed as criticism. Will rein the hyperbole in, but the mag feet have definitely improved what is already a giant killing package. Dover, don't worry too much about lack of continuity using the mag feet. Any movement via the feet is microscopic, this is just a way to minimise the travel of vibrations up into the tt. I'm actually considering running the motor pod on Symposium Acoustics Rollerblocks HDSEs, which will addd ANOTHER possible layer of discontinuity. Btw, the Salvation is a direct rim drive, not belt drive, and as such may be better able to cope w/this kind of isolation/discontinuity. |
I am pretty sure Vic is not an advocate of clamping but I to am curious and would like to hear if anyone has tried it and their opinion. Dentdog, I appears you live in Atlanta, I live up the road in Rome. We both have the Salvation/Terminator but the rest of our systems appear to be very different. Perhaps we should get together and have a listen to each others system. Do you have the magnetic feet? I have not taken the plunge yet, still waiting for a little more feedback. |
SGunther, the mag lev feet are a no brainer, the only caveat being they may make a thin strident sounding system too edgy. Normal tonal balance or even an overly-warm sound will really be perfect. I've come to the conclusion after a rocky start, that the feet beat the mag lev platter re impvts wrought, no mean feat (feet? LOL). Re lp clamp, Vic is adamant NO NO NO! The ResoMat in effect leaves the lp supported on points, and any overly-heavy clamp will bow the lp down at it's centre, causing a concave dishing, and a lifting of the outer edge. Maybe a v. light clamp that doesn't weigh down the lp, but to increase solidity of contact w/the points on the mat, might work. And poss a periphery ring, but again really not too heavy (i.e. avoid like the plague the ultra heavywt TTWeights stuff). Vic really believes, contrary to pretty much every other tt designer, that vibrations are dealt w/more effectively by minimal securing of the vinyl structure, akin to letting the lp "breathe" while it's playing. |
Spirit - Thank you for your reply. You are correct it is a no brainer, I have been very pleased with my progression through Vic's arm and TT developments and the cost of the Mag feet is very reasonable especially for this hobby. If pressed I would describe my system as neutral (you can see the components here on Agon). Which brings me to my questions to you; Why do you think the mag feet make a system more edgy? Did you think the mag bearing did the same? |
Edgy and revealing can seem v.similar in character. One can have a v. edgy sounding system w/ or w/out detail present. The mag feet will reveal at lot more detail, but I have an issue w/uber resolution in edgy systems, where the sum total is totally uninviting. Eg Vic's home system incls a digital T amp, open baffle Bastani spkrs, and impressive as the detail resolution is, the edge of your seat presentation I find totally fatiguing and nerve shredding. It MIGHT be that in a similar uber energetic/revealing rig the feet may push the balance further into nerve jangling territory. |
Don't need edgy. Got up and running about 9 months ago after a 30 yr hiatus from audio. While there can always be improvements, have tweaked with tubes and treatments to achieve a rounded, musical presentation. Not overly warm but sweet. Def 4s will get in your face until you tame them but the dynamics can't be sacrificed. The Salvation-Terminator is a no brainer. True 100% level is a tough order though. I'm really close. I knew going in that a linear tracker was my cup of tea. Nervosa as the last track comes up can't be a part of my listening experience. |
I received and installed the magnetic feet. I have only listened to a couple of LP's. My preliminary impression is that they move the performance of the Salvation/Terminator up another level, enhanced dynamics, imaging and maybe a little deeper sound stage. Definitely not edgy and I have a pretty neutral system with Ortofon Winfield cartridge and Martin Logan Summit speakers. I will provide further impressions as I get some more experience. |
Just to clarify Vic system AS SpiritofMusic and myself will always have a different view point He uses Alpairs 12p in Open Baffles with 18" inch bass drivers uses Bantam Mono a Benedict Phonostage that is a true audiophile bargain and his vinyl replay system sounds fantastic. Mark you need to hear it again. The new phonostage just makes everything musical in sense of flow dynamics and speed. It made me change my view point around the Bantams |
John, this isn't going to wk for me since I'm running a Soundsmith Straingauge cart. But I am happy to hear Vic's current setup, I'm sure it's really sweet. Sgunther, concur w/you, the mag feet are stupendous, in some ways more radical than the mag bearing. Re the stridency I initially heard, I'm not sure what that was all about, but everything is just excellent sounding now. |
I received message from Dentdog ! There is still a connection between the worlds :) Yes the balanced maglev feet do the trick ! Improve bass quality for sure but also refine all areas in some extent. A very serious impvt. And yes, remove harshness on certain recordings, this is the biggest thing about the maglev feet really. The maglev feet simply improve macro & micro dynamics. This obviously leads to another thing: some cartridges seem to benefit more of this revelation of detail more than others. Again, everything must in a perfect balance, leveling the platter & manifold/saddle, cart´s azimuth etc. I´m very close to having found the sweet spot of my TT system. It´s really hard to believe that punk ever happened in 1976 as I saw GENESIS LIVE music very live & kicking in Helsinki earlier in spring 2014. In a small venue me and my friend went back to 1973 lead by maestro Steve Hackett & his friends on his GENESIS LIVE REVISITED EXTENDED tour and we found ourselves shouting for "Knife !". I closed my eyes and the illusion being in a GENESIS gig was perfect. Nearly 3 hours of old GENESIS music without a break and a single dull moment. The original GENESIS LIVE sound was born again in modern World. The best concert I ever witnessed and will remain forever... unless they will do it again ? In my universe prog reigned in 1976 and still does today in 2016... till the End of Time. Happy New Year |
I wonder if any here have heard both the Salvation/Terminator and a recent Jean Nantais modified Lenco. I am currently in the process of acquiring a JN Reference Mk2 and would be very interested in such comparisons. Of course, for a proper comparison the JN TT would need to be fitted with the same Terminator arm and cartridge, and I doubt many have heard such a combination. However, any general impressions from somebody who has heard both TTs would still be illuminating. Although intrigued by the many excellent reviews, what put me off the Salvation was having to faff about with an air-bearing arm. This aside, the Salvation/Terminator appears to be one of audios great bargains.. |
Have been running top factory spec Soundsmith Straingauge cart, twin bespoke Peter Downs Design psus to Straingauge and Salvation motor, and a whole string of mods, from bespoke Al arm mount to Terminator air linear tracker, nylon unipivot points, Klei Silver Harmony RCA plugs to tonearm wire, Symposium Svelte pad under motor pod, and the crowning glory, a Stacore Advanced pneumatic platform as support. This analog front end is now a fearsomely impressive performer, with no apparent weaknesses, and some real performance attributes that shame some tt front ends at multiples of the price. |
Have gone all out to create my dream analog front end. Salvation tt now on Stacore Advanced 95kg passive pneumatic isolation platform. Rim drive pod now on Symposium Acoustics Svelte isolation pad. Rim drive speed controller now powered by bespoke R-core transformer psu. Salvation w mag lev bearing and tt feet. Terminator air arm pump powered by 3kVA balanced transformer isolated from grid to main system. Bespoke Al arm mount to Terminator. New nylon unipivot points to Terminator. T3Pro armwand upgrade to Terminator. Upgraded Klei Silver Harmony RCA jacks to Terminator one-piece tonearm wire. Soundsmith Straingauge cart now upgraded to top spec SDS-7 stylus profile. Bespoke overspecced R-core transformer psu to Straingauge energiser. New IC chip to energiser. SR Black fuses and Sablon Elite pwr cords to Salvation and Straingauge psus. RollerBlocks on Symposium Acoustics platform under psus and energiser. — Im now maintaining all the rhythmic drive and speed that my rig was exemplary at, with a new found revelation of texture, air, transparency, imaging, and especially genuine tone and authentic timbre. Now I can have the best of both worlds, the positives that the best idlers/rim drives are lauded for, with a healthy dose of what the best belt drives bring to the party. |
Hi Noromance, I had a big delay in reinstalling my analog as I first got my dedicated listening space built, and second, accidentally tripped my Straingauge necessitating a 4 month repair delay. Ive always known the stock psus on the Salvation tt speed controller and Straingauge energiser were able to be bettered, and while these psus were being built by Peter Downs at www.alternativeaudio.co.uk, it was also possible to get Trans Fi Audio designer Vic to update the unipivot points and other odds and ends. Also an enthusiast Salvation/Terminator user was proposing a bespoke Al arm mount, so at this point I thought let’s keep going LOL. The biggest masterstroke was coming across the Stacore pneumatic/slate mass loaded passive isolation platform. And another lot of smaller changes. All the while Peter Lederman did his magic upping my Straingauge to top factory spec. — Ive in effect now spent 3x my original outlay, but I have a pretty stellar performer that really punches above its weight and sounds unique to me in lots of ways. — It is true the Salvation and Terminator are both discontinued, a real shame and loss to the analog world. |
Sounds great. You are on the right track staying away from huge belt drives! I'm relegated to the basement so no huge inclination to advance much further than where I am. One advantage is concrete floor and walls. Biggest challenge is getting great recordings. I have to get some bass traps. I met Peter in New York playing the SG on a VPI Prime/3D with Harbeths iirc. Nice enough although I'm not sold on the phono amps...I like my valves. |
Noromance, I love my valves too (running Nat Audio Utopia pre and 70W 211s SE2SE monos), but I feel I’m missing nothing w the SS Straingauge. It can lack warmth w the stock DC 24V wall warts, but using my Peter Downs bespoke psu to the cart energiser has endowed the Straingauge w an amazing natural warmth, generous texture, supple bass, neutral mids, clear extended treble, indeed all the things I hear in the best tubed phono stages. |