Turntable isolation...

Slaw - many of us post these details in our system listings so as not to have to repeat them every time, hope you had a chance to check these all out

...even the OP did not give us all the details of his/her isolation system.

This should have been a "given" since he/she was the originator of this thread.

I get tired of others' seemingly taking advantage, without giving anything at all! Don't you?

bdp24:

As always, please let us know how this works out for you, in your system.

I hope you'll detail your system as much as I have in your upcoming response.

I've since ordered (2) more sets of (4) Super Stiff Springs to isolate my amp/rack...etc......

One thing I find out of the ordinary... among those who have responded... NONE have gone into any real detail, (as I tried to do), regarding their set-up!!. I thought that this was the whole idea of this post, and really, the whole idea of this forum. Why do others not go into more detailed specifics???????????????

Without this, we will not learn easily.

Thanks Slaw, I've contacted Geoff to get some of his springs for myself.

shoe has got it right, but in a small NYC apt there's no extra rooms, doors to close or signs to post. 🙂

bdp24, the springs I placed under my TT/platform are his Super Stiff Springs. The (4) cryo'd under my preamp/platform are the medium spring rate. I use some homemade lead shot weights on this platform as well for additional weight.

I considered a Minus-k but the weight distribution thing turned me off went with a Vibraplane and am thrilled!

Yes, the main similarity is the matching of spring rate to the load. Which of course is the right approach.

Geoff, would you draw any comparisons with your springs & Max's Seismic Pods...??

Keep the turntable out of "line of sight" from the speakers!

Thanks for the report Slaw. Which of Geoff's springs did you get?

I've used a MANA Acoustics wall mount for years. In spite of various high priced isolation devices which have made a significant difference, there's the weak link: the wall. I've gone over in my mind for years different ways to rebuild the wall. What keeps holding me back is the time it would take me to construct verses the time without my system providing so much joy.
I recently came across Geoffkait's springs and ordered a couple of sets. I put a set of four under my Symposium Ultra that supports a VPI Classic 3 Sig. SE w/ a set of EdenSound Terrastone footers coupled to a set of Stillpoints Ultra SS. I also put a set of four of his cryo'd springs under a BDR platform, in my MANA set-up that supports my EAR 834P w/ Stillpoints minis.
What a difference! First, there is almost no vibration felt through these components now when I touch them. The overall sound: no harshness at all, bass + midbass is so much more resolving. The best under $100.00 I've spent lately, by far.
I have researched the MinusK units and still think at some point they may be an option when I do finally rebuild my supporting wall. I think it would be wise to consult with them on your specific TT and make a custom unit. I'm no longer in any hurry however, to take on the project. Thanks Geoffkait!

The Vibraplane is a spring system too, you know, air being a compressible fluid, so an air spring has a spring rate just like a steel spring and the reason it’s so stable is because it doesn’t isolate in at least some of the rotational directions, it is not free to move easily in those directions, not sure about the twist direction, but probably not. My platform went a lot lower - as low as 0.5 Hz vs 3 Hz for Vibraplane and mine isolated in all 6 - count em - directions. It was also a spring system.

I put the turn table in a room all by itself, lock the door and put a "quarantine", sign on the door. 

About 5 years ago I sold a dac here on Agon to a guy that designed and built nuclear reactors. I'm personally a renewable energy kinda' guy but suffice it to say he was super smart, obviously knew a ton about engineering and happened to be an audiophile. I figured he was a good person to ask some questions to about the science of audio and the topic of isolation came up. He was convinced, based on pure science and engineering principles that a Vibraplane or equivalent air isolation platform was the only worthy vibration control. He explained that this type of system was able to handle vibration on all axes as opposed to spring, magnetic, polymer, sand etc, which just address up and down but no side movement. This was about 5 years ago so perhaps some other technologies have emerged. I have 3 Vibraplanes from Sounds of Silence. Mine are hooked up to a compressor and made my really awesome system sound even better. As mentioned by others, Steve is a great guy to deal with and although the platforms are a bit of an investment, they're definitely worth it and are the real deal. There's a reason that they're the industry standard for supporting electron microscopes and other vibration sensitive equipment. 

I don't use anything under my VPI Classic.  I was using A/C isolation pads but I couldn't tell any difference.

Where does that line form??!!

In Ancient Greece a symposium was a wild drinking party. Orgy included, one assumes. Count me in.

Get a used Symposium ulta on Audiogon.

geoffkait you make a good point.  I have tried it both ways and cannot tell (hear) a difference.  I have had the table on maple, MDF, and on top of my current rack.   The only thing I haven't tried is putting it in the rack on  acrylic shelves that are doubled and separated by ceramic balls.  I think that could make for human error having to navigate around the table even though the rack is large enough.

 My theory is the steel plate is so rigid that the fluid suspended Basis "resonant annihilators" are able to stay linear and do their job - much like the calibrator base does when used.   I could be wrong but I still can't hear a difference.

"put your turntable in a ground level room with no basement or suspended floor. Difficult to get a more solid platform."

There’s a lot to be said for shaky and wobbly as in the Flexy Rack of yore. The ease of motion in a particular direction is proportional to the effectiveness of the isolation in that direction. The Earth ’s crust motion forces the entire house structure to move, including the basement concrete slab, like a flea on a wet dog shaking itself.

put your turntable in a ground level room with no basement or suspended floor.  Difficult to get a more solid platform.

I use a Herzan active vibration isolation table for my SOTA Cosmos.  It made a surprisingly big difference, I thought, when I installed it ater 3 years of using the Cosmos on a heavy walnut shelf/rack.  The unit has lights that show you when each of the different axes of active isolation are actually in use, and they really only go on when I am playing at loud levels with a lot of bass energy.  The main table seems to be a heavy aluminum plate on tuned springs, and by itself it makes a clear difference.  It just upped the level of transparency in the musical presentation, removing some consistent colorations/resonances that were overlaying the playback.  And I could also clearly hear deeper into the music.

I stumbled upon two of these tables on Ebay 6 years ago, mis-labeled, and I bought them for ~$800 total, otherwise I probably would have a hard time justifying them.  When they arrived at my workplace on a pallet, we hauled them onto some welded steel tables in our Lab, plugged them in and let them warm up.  I then poured 4 cups of water and placed one each on the two Herzan tables, and one each on either side on the Lab tables.  I then "tympani rolled" the table tops with my fists and the water danced out of the cups sitting on the Lab tables, but you saw no ripples on the ones on the Herzan tables.  I howled with delight!  They sure seem effective.

"Arcicci suspension rack. The top has a 70lb steel platform resting on 3 air bladders, probably overkill for my basis 2200 which is suspended but I love the floating shelves underneath for my components."

Imagine a car, let's say a Rolls Royce, barreling down the road with two shock absorbers attacked in series to each wheel instead of one shock absorber per wheel.  It would be a VERY bumpy ride, chaos, since the two shock absorbers would interfere with each other.  Same goes for isolating suspended turntables.  

Arcicci suspension rack.  The top has a 70lb steel platform resting on 3 air bladders, probably overkill for my basis 2200 which is suspended but I love the floating shelves underneath for my components.

I use extremely low spring rate steel springs for isolating very light things like portable CD players. I use 4 cryo’d high carbon steel springs with medium spring rate for isolating most moderate to lightweight things up to about 40 lb. For heavier things up to say 80 lb I just add another spring for every 10 lb. For really heavy things like big amps and big VPI and Verdier turntables I use Super Stiff Springs, 4 of these babies will isolate things in the range of say 75 lb and 150 lb. For even heavier things add another Super Stiff Spring for every 50 lb. Super Stiff Springs will come cryo’d in the near future. And since these springs are low profile they have excellent lateral support/stability. The reason you have to load the Vibraplane in some cases and the Minus K is because there is a design load based on the spring rate of the device, so to get the lowest possible resonant frequency of the iso device you obviously want to use design load, which is most likely near max load for the design. Air springs have rated max pressure for example.

It's ok I've just read the pdf.

Can you elucidate the set-up of the Vibraplane please? 

I think a new Vibraplane is $2,000 to $2,500. It is very effective. You should call Sounds of Silence. Steve Klein is a good guy to deal with. I also looked at minus K, but per the note above from wrm57 I decided I did not want to deal with the balancing. The Vibraplane is easy to use and I check the leveling about once a month. It takes about 5 minutes. There is a guy on What's Best Forum that uses a Herzan. They are expensive.

I use a Minus K and love it under my Brinkmann Oasis. I used to have a second one under a Clearaudio. You have to weight them to their limit, though, to get best results, and balancing your TT on them can be a little challenging. I use heavy brass discs to distribute the weight. Also, they seem to work better if you put a shelf or platform on top of the top plate--I use a Adona multi-element shelf.

Use 3 stillpoint ultra 6’s under the table which rest on a 3 inch slab of walnut.

Anybody use Minus K Technology or Herzan? 

How effective is the Vibraplane & what's the price?

Vibraplane from Sounds of Silence

bcoz i don't want my parrot landing on it :-)

Grand Prix Audio Brooklands wall shelf mounted to dedicated studs (i.e. studs which are not otherwise connected to any other part of the wall, only at the floor and ceiling), the studs themselves are further isolated by the addition of Acoustic Sciences Corp stud stabilizers -- these are quite inexpensive and neatly designed devices, if you have a chance to open the wall up and are looking at wall mounting a stand I think you should consider them
http://www.acousticsciences.com/products/stud-stabilizer

Electron microscope platform.